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rapture today?
Deborah-Leigh:
Hi soberxp
No one knows enough or everything ~ only God does and no one is yet in His Perfect Image. We all have to learn things we believe we don't have to learn. We all have to keep learning even when we think we know enough. It's tough! :)
Here is an excerp from FOUNDATIONAL TRUTHS
[How much truth does it take to set one FREE?]
No one is yet FREE and only Jesus Christ and the Liberty of His Spirit is truly free. All shall be held unaccountable if we ignor, turn away from or despise the Truth. The Truth has brought you here to BT where we all need to read, and re-read and ask God by the Gift of His Spirit to make what we read become more and more integrated into our being so we can with the help and vital need of the Spirit of God the Father, put on the Mind of His Son our Lord Jesus Christ. Here is a little bit of that very mind of Christ we all treasure and need to increasingly aspire to be and image. :) Maybe, God willing, it will comfort, help and edify you to rise past the false truths about our God. :)
Regardless of what you think it implies or might mean or this or that. It does not say that God’s Word is not Truth does it? No. Well then do we have a Scripture that says God Word is Truth? Yes. Then you can’t have a Scripture that contradicts that.’
See you can’t have a Scripture that suggests sometimes under certain circumstances, that there are times or places where God’s Word is not true. No, so don’t go there.
You can say, ‘Is there a Scripture that God does NOT wish - care - please - want to - desire - wishes or any word that you want to say, that all men be saved? Is there a Scripture that says that? NO. Well if you can’t show me a Scripture that says He doesn’t want all men to be saved, then you try to tell me the one that says He does want them saved, is a lie. Don’t you go there with me. That’s the true Scripture.’
If he has no Scripture that says God doesn’t desire or wish or want or please that all men be saved, it’s because there is no such Scripture. But if he tries to come up with anything that contradicts it... It can’t. Because we have a plain statement.
Is there a Scripture that says the Son will NOT be the Savior of the world? God the Father commissioned Jesus Christ in 1 John 4:14 to BE the Savior of the world. Now is there a Scripture that says God did NOT commission Him or that He will NOT be the Savior of the world? Is the such a Scripture?
So then don’t let anybody take you somewhere to some Scripture, that they think contradicts this Truth. Don’t go there!
OTHER EXAMPLES OF SCRIPTURAL KEYS
You’ve got all these Scriptures about fire, punishment, hell and burning and all that stuff. Is there anyway to lump that together or bring that all together under one Scripture or two Scriptures, but the same idea? Is there a way to do that so that all those meanings do not mean that this is a eternity of torture? Is there a way to do that with just one idea, two Scripture with one idea? Any idea on that? Okay the two Scriptures and they are easy to remember, 1 Cor. 3:15 and Rev. 20:15, they are both verse 15.
They both talk about “fire” and they will say, 'well it says the Lake of fire in Revelation, that‘s eternal torture.’
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
But it says every man’s WORK is going to be tried in that fire, because there is another set of Scriptures in I Cor. 3, it says…
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's WORK shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be SAVED; yet so as by FIRE.
But guess what this one tells us that Revelation doesn’t? That’s how you get SAVED, through the FIRE! Oh yeah you will be put in the fire, “but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” The fire doesn’t torture you for all eternity, it will save you!
Do we have a Scripture that says the fire in Revelation is for all eternity? They will say, ‘well yeah.’ No there isn’t, there isn‘t one that says that. ‘Well it says Satan will be tormented day and night forever and ever.’ Well now we are back to the definition of aion and aionios you see, because we have a bad translation here. Besides it’s talking about Satan, it’s not talking about people thrown into fire down below.
Another favorite Scripture of mine, now there are others that are similar, but there is not any that state it as clearly as Isaiah. Mark this in your Bible and learn it.
The idea is that they say, when God’s judgments are in the earth most of the people will not repent and they will perish and be tortured for all eternity, forever and ever and ever in the Lake of fire, the fire that has no quenching and the worm do not die, etc…
Do we have a Scripture that says when the judgments of God come to this whole entire world and all the inhabitants of the earth, then those people WILL learn righteousness? Yes we do.
Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
You just got to believe that verse! It says the inhabitants of the WORLD. When? When Thy judgments are in the earth. Now who does that include? You can start spreading out in the Scriptures, but if you don’t know, just stick to that Scripture. The whole earth, all the inhabitants of the whole world, to me that is everybody. They say, ‘no it’s not.’ Well to me it is, I’m sorry you are going to have to show me a verse that says, when His judgments are in the earth, NOT all the inhabitants of the whole world will learn righteousness. Do you have a Scripture that says that? ‘No.’ Well then you don’t have a Scripture that contradicts that Scripture. If you did we would have to throw the Bible out anyway, because then it wouldn’t be true and God would be a liar.
Are you following, the one principle I’m trying to get across? You only have to know a few key Scriptures and you can put down every evil doctrine in religion in the church today. Just a couple of Scripture, that’s all you need. But you’ve got to believe them and you’ve got to stick by them.
If somebody says, ‘yeah but…’ Yeah but, are you telling me you’ve got a Scripture that makes a liar out of this Scripture? That breaks this Scripture? That diminishes from this Scripture? Are you telling me you have a Scripture like that? If you are there is the door and I will not talk to you any longer.
So you can spread out, but you get that one Scripture you know. Acts 17 comes to mind.
They say, ‘was it really talking about the whole world or maybe it’s just “given” period, when His judgments are in the earth to all the people at that particular time?’ For crying out loud, if God can save all the people in the world at any one given time, who are you to say He couldn’t do it at some other time too. It’s nonsense.
Act 17:31 Because He (God) hath appointed a day, in the which He (God) will judge the world in righteousness by that Man (Jesus Christ) whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead.
God is going to send the Man that died for our sins and raised back up from the dead. As an assurance to the people that are being judged you see, that there is a future life for them in righteousness. But first they have to be judged.
Who is the assurance given to? ALL men!
When is this assurance going to be given to them? In judgment.
But what kind of assurance can you give people in judgment, that is IF the assurance is for sure you are going to hell for all eternity? Because if you wasn’t (going to hell) you would have already come up in the first resurrection, which you didn’t… so you are all going to hell? Now how do you like that for the assurance, that is in Christ Jesus?
Can’t you see these things? Boy I’m telling you, learn a couple of things and then stick with it. Don’t ever give it up. You will be surprised. Then you can’t be pulled aside with every wind of doctrine.
Kat:
Soberxp, you certainly need to have read over the Bible truths site, at least once, in order to have an opinion about what is taught here. Please take a minute to review the rules of this forum.
THE IMPORTANT STUFF:
This forum and how it is moderated, is different than most all religious based forums on the internet so please read carefully.
If you are considering joining this forum before reading and studying www.bible-truths.com, please reconsider.
It would be beneficial to all involved if you take the time to familiarize yourself with the teaching of L.Ray Smith first.
This is not the place to decide if you agree with the teaching of L.Ray Smith, but a place you can retreat to when you do.
This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.
If you seriously disagree with Ray, please email him directly.
If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere.
Hope you will see where I am coming from. If you want to join in and discuss what is taught at BT you need to know what is there. How can you question or object to something that you have not even read or studied? This forum is only for discussion of the truth taught at BT, so your making statements of what you believe to be true is not appropriate, at least not until you are knowledgeable in the fundamentals taught here. It takes time and effort to go through all the articles here, but if God opens your mind to the truth the reward can not be measured.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Marky Mark:
--- Quote from: soberxp on September 11, 2010, 11:15:51 PM ---2Peter - 彼得后书 2:9
kjv:The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
niv:if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
you could found in Greek http://www.yawill.com/
2Peter 2:9
Mat 25:46
they are not the same word "punishment" in Greek,how can it be ? I wonder Rotherham who used An inexact mind; an inexact method.
--- End quote ---
soberxp.
The word usage for punishment seems to be of the same meaning in both of the verses that you are saying have a different meaning.
2Pe 2:9 The LordG2962 knowethG1492 how to deliverG4506 the godlyG2152 out ofG1537 temptations,G3986 andG1161 to reserveG5083 the unjustG94 untoG1519 the dayG2250 of judgmentG2920 to be punished:G2849
Lexicon Results
Strong's G2849 - kolazō
1) to lop or prune, as trees and wings
2) to curb, check, restrain
3) to chastise, correct, punishment
4) to cause to be punished
Mat 25:46 AndG2532 theseG3778 shall go awayG565 intoG1519 everlastingG166 punishment:G2851 butG1161 theG3588 righteousG1342 intoG1519 lifeG2222 eternal.G166
Lexicon Results
Strong's G2851 - kolasis
1) correction, punishment, penalty
Also from the CLV.
Mat 25:46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."
2Pe 2:9 the Lord is acquainted with the rescue of the devout out of trial, yet is keeping the unjust for chastening in the day of judging,
Hope this helps.
Peace...Mark
soberxp:
is this also wrong?
Revelation - 21:27
kjv:And there shall in no wise enter into it(the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, ) any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
niv:Nothing impure will ever enter it(the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, ) , nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
did you think one who didn't enter into it(the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, ) ,you guys call it get save?
P.S:
BTW. I CARE the correct, correction,
Revelation - 21:27 did you think one who didn't enter into it(the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, ) ,you guys call it(didn't enter into her the holy Jerusalem) get save?
is english too hard to understand?should I speak chinese?
Kat:
Hi Soberxp,
--- Quote ---is this also wrong?
Revelation - 21:27
kjv:And there shall in no wise enter into it(the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, ) any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
--- End quote ---
What do you mean is this wrong? Scripture is true, it's the interpretation that is wrong.
--- Quote ---did you think one who didn't enter into it(the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, ) ,you guys call it get save?
--- End quote ---
Here are a couple of places Ray discusses this 'Holy Jerusalem.'
http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html --------------------
A TALE OF TWO JERUSALEM'S
"Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is NEW JERUSALEM…" (Rev. 3:12).
What is this "New Jerusalem?" It is a "Mother." Mothers are women who have given birth to children. We have all been birthed by a physical woman—a mother. In order to be "born again," we must be birthed by a spiritual mother. And just who is that spiritual mother?
"For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage [through the DEPTHS of Satan] with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is THE MOTHER OF US ALL" (Gal. 4:25-26).
Our spiritual mother is Jerusalem above. Don’t be deceived by the phrase, "…of us ALL," seeing that Paul himself puts a disclaimer at the end of chapter 5 showing specifically who the "all" includes here:
"For IN Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a NEW CREATURE [creation]. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the [spiritual] Israel of God" (Gal. 5:15-16).
And what is this "rule" that Paul is speaking of? Why those who are living by the spirit, and not the flesh and letter of the Law of Moses. Those who live by the "Law of the SPIRIT" which is what the New Covenant is all about.
"LOVE your enemies!"
"Love NOT the world, neither the things that are in the world"
The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life!
"I am crucified WITH Christ!"
These are the spiritual laws of the New Covenant. They are far superior to the laws of Moses under the Old Covenant.
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html --------------
"Him that overcomes will I make a pillar [a position of great spiritual responsibility] in the temple of my God" (3:12).
That’s CHRIST,
"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Corner Stone; In Whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD" (Eph. 2:21).
Christ is our Temple for we live in Him as HIS BODY, and we are the temple of God’s Holy Spirit that lives and dwells IN US, and Christ IS that Spirit—"abide in Me, and I in you."
And "…he shall go no more out" That’s CHRIST. We are IN Christ, we are the Body of Christ, Christ is our temple, our house, where we dwell "IN Christ."
We abide and dwell in Christ and Christ abides and dwells and lives HIS LIFE in us, so that we will "go no more out," till at the consummations of all the ages, "God may be ALL in All" (I Cor. 15:28).
"And I will write upon him the NAME OF MY GOD, and the NAME OF THE CITY of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME."
That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.
New Jerusalem is the heavenly Jerusalem spoken of in Heb. 12:22, where "the general assembly and church of the firstborn [Christ and His anointed body of believers], which are written in heaven" is found. It is from New Jerusalem and heavenly Mt. Sion that the government of Christ will proceed in bringing Salvation to the Earth and the Universe (Isa. 2:2). I will write upon him My new name.
-----------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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