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Deuteronomy 30:19
daywalker:
It takes awhile for it to really begin to sink in... The hardest part is we keep going back to "can" we make choices... But whether or not we "can" make choices has nothing to do with "free" will... The question isn't "can" we make choices, but "WHY" do we make the choices that we make? No matter what the decision is--right or wrong--there was a "reason" [or perhaps "many reasons"] WHY we did what we did. And this is why our will isn't "free".
The simplest example I always use [and Ray uses it too] is the Weather. Cold weather "causes" us to wear a jacket or sweater. Sure we "make the choice" to put on a jacket, but it wasn't a "free" choice. Sometimes it's a bit harder to figure out what the cause is for certain choices, but there IS ALWAYS a "reason" or "cause" for every choice we make.
Hope that helps.
Daywalker 8)
GaryK:
--- Quote from: SDDiver on September 14, 2010, 02:54:04 PM ---Thanks for your reply Kat. I think I understand what you have posted. I've read (and re-re-re-re read) this article before and it's sinking in (slowly)
So in Deuteronomy 30:19, when God says that it is He who sets before us life and death, blessing and curse, and then goes on saying to choose life - does He "force" us to choose the one? With no option to choose the other?
Just trying to understand. So much to learn still.
--- End quote ---
You're not alone in this spiritual battle.
Ray certainly recognizes the spiritual battle one must live through in the giving up of the 'free-will' notion:
THE WISDOM OF THIS WORLD
“I will show that free will is indeed an "idol of the heart" which needs to be repented of. And of all man’s sacred cows, free will is the most sacred of all. It is undoubtedly the most difficult doctrine in man’s walk with God to acknowledge and give up.”
http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html
Joel:
If we look back to the beginning, there was only GOOD and EVIL, no free will between the two. We can't be fence sitters, as Ray has explained so many times, "WE ARE SINNING MACHINES.
As Ray has also stated many times, we make many many choices on a daily bases, all choices are based on any number of reasons, usually our own lust, and carnality most of the time.
All the good choices are because God deems it so, can a pot makes it's own self honorable and Godly?
We are either doing good, or we are doing evil, it's either black or it's white, honorable or dishonorable.
I count myself blessed that God has allowed me to see and understand truths that He has inspired Ray to expound on from the scriptures.
God is Spirit and Jesus is the Word, he had to do the will of the Father that sent him.
People have a spirit and we think, and mull over things in our minds and decide what we are going to do in differant circumstances as we make choices.
James said that we need to watch our tongues though, Jesus didn't have to because his thoughts and actions were given him by the Father, Spirit to the Word.
Again, we are blessed to have Truths clearly shown to us if we have the Spiritual eyes to see them, and that too is a gift from God the Father through Jesus the Christ, our Lord and Savior. I pray that we all be lead by the Spirit of God, and that his will be done in all things.
Joel
gmik:
Love this topic as I just had a go round w/ a friend hung up on it.
Daywalker, could you expound on your metaphor??? I may have several rain jackets in my closet? Am I free to choose which one I wear?? (I am serious) thanks.
Kat:
Hi Gena,
I think what really bothers us about the idea of no free will is we think then we would be no more than robots. That our actions are not our own if they are always caused by something else. Well here is an email from Ray that might help a little more with this.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4702.0.html -------
you are not understanding properly. OF COURSE we have a "choice." We, in fact, have made MILLIONS of our OWN choices. Every choice you make is YOUR CHOICE. Whose do think it is? When you decide to have apple pie for desert, who makes that choice? If you change your mind and decide that you will rather have cherry pie, who changed your mind and made the new choice? Did that choice come out of SOME ONE ELSE'S mind and mouth? Did something FORCE YOU AGAINST YOUR WILL to choose apple pie when you really really wanted blueberry pie? Well? No, of course not. You CHOSE which desert YOU preferred, did you not? Yes, of course you did. Can a "robot" choose which kind of pie it wants? No, of course not, and even if it did, it wouldn't have been based on a thousand and one emotions, circumstances, appearances, price, past memories of which pie taste the best, etc. etc., etc., etc., etc., would it? We make all our own choices and we make them from our heart. We always choose that which WE prefer to choose. God does not FORCE US AGAINST OUR WILL to choose something we do not want to choose, and that is true for choices we really don't want to make in the first place, but circumstances dictate that we must or should.
Now it is true that the final choice we made is the ONLY choice that we could have made, but so what? It is, after all, THE ONE WE WANTED TO MAKE. Can you now understand it?
Do you still think you are a robot? I hope not. It takes a lot of thought and meditation to wrap your mind around this powerful spiritual truth.
God be with you,
Ray
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