From a discussion on Ray's health update

[Craig]

We need to step back and realize God is in charge.  He knows how many days we have left and that Ray has left.  And the cure is God, not our taking silver or chemo, etc. 

Does anyone really think that "supplements to take that will certainly cure him, no questions asked." is really true??  If any supplement or a particular medicine really cured cancer then we would not be plagued by cancer today.  Don't say that the "establishment" is keeping a lid on this, if a cure for cancer really existed then it would get out and be used by the masses.  Doctors kids and families die from cancer, the rich and powerful and their loved ones die from cancer, the pharmaceutical companies families and loved ones die of cancer.  If a cure existed then their families would not die of cancer and in this age of information we would all know about it too..  Sure people who have been declared incurable have been cured and it was not because they took supplements.  I know 2 people who recovered completely from cancer after being given no hope and they did not take supplements or change diet or anything, the doctors shrug and declare a miracle.  It may be a miracle but God is the cause!.  GOD IS IN CONTROL!

Thousands if not millions claim and believe that faith healers such as Benny Hinn and others cure cancer and every other form of ailment, but if you try and verify this the proof does not exist.  As Dennis said, Ray has been using colloidal silver and sodium carbonate for years, and he appears to be getting worse.  If they "will certainly cure him" this would not be happening.   I have watched a handful of friends and family who have also been stricken by cancer and tried these treatments and all but one has died.  God is the healer not these supplements or cures.  If God forbid I was stricken with incurable cancer today and went on a diet of turnips and was suddenly cured, I would be telling everybody that turnips cured cancer.  If a person I told tried turnips and was cured and they told people and they were cured, it would not be long before all the world was eating turnips and being cured of cancer.  But if others ate turnips and die then my hypothesis would be wrong.  But if 3 people out of 100 ate turnips and was cured they would generate just enough hype to keep these stories going, while not considering the real cure was that God had willed them to live, God was the cure, they could have ate brownies and been cured.

I will admit, that I wish the "establishment" would spend more research money trying to find a cure rather than a treatment.  But cures do not make money like treatment does.  I can guarantee this, if God wants mankind to develop a cancer cure it will happen, as He has done for many diseases in history.  If God directs anyone to try supplements and diets then do it, He may use these things to help the body fight and be cured or to prolong a persons life, but using a supplement or diet and taking God out of the equation will never work, because God is the equation.

Craig

[gmik]

Very timely....my very active 83 year old father was just diagnosed w/ stage 2 lung cancer.  He has been given a fairly good prognosis but still has to endure 6 weeks of chemo/radiation.

I tell him I am praying for him but I know it is of course in God's hands completely.

Good thoughts Craig.

[musicman]

Well, I do eat a lot of brownies Craig.  It does work.

[arion]

All is of God.  All the medical knowledge that man has and all the learning that the herbalists and those like Dr. Steger have learned is also of God.  Certainly there are a lot of 'snake oil' salesmen around as well as those willing to purchase the latest miracle.  Yet, that doesn't diminish or take aught away from learning to take care of yourself the best that you can.  There is a balance in all things.  I could sit back, fold my arms and do nothing to take care of myself and adopt a fatalistic attitude over things.   Nothing that I do makes a difference so why even try?  If I had such an attitude with my walk with God  then why would I pray, read the scriptures or listen to the teachings we find here?

The way I look at it is that I will learn and do everything I can to take care of myself spiritually, mentally, emotionally and physically and then leave the results to God.  I'm not a health 'nut' but I do supplement and put into practices some of the things that Ray has learned from Dr. Steger.  I want to live as long and as healthy as I can but of course God may have other plans and that's o.k.  It's a conundrum because there are those who have never paid any attention to their health and live like the proverbial pig and have never had a sick day in their life.  They smoke, drink, and never exercise and yet they seem to do well.  On the other hand there are those who have done all the 'right things' and yet they are struck down early with cancer or hit by a bus and are killed.  Let God be God.  I don't want to be fatalistic about things but neither do I wish to let the pendulum swing to the other extreme either.

[grapehound]

Dear Craig,

I thank our God for blessing you with such copious amounts of insight and common sense.
Refreshing stuff.

Love in Jesus

Grape

[grapehound]

Amen John

[judith collier]

Spontaneous remissions are interesting. And they do happen. I don't like to take my medicine and sometimes I worry about the effects it is having on my body. Don't laugh but i pray to God that he bless my medicine and sometimes I have taken more of something, forgetting I had already taken some but then I just pray again and believe God will protect me from my stupid self. I wouldn't take any of it but I do know I am more comfortable with it but all in all l really don't put that much stock in it.

[Joel]

Never the less, it all goes back to FAITH, how many today would humble themselves and wash in the Jordan river seven times?

Joel

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Arion

I was just paying attention to the words when reading your report....

take care of yourself the best that you can......

.....is not Scriptural.... Oh that we will take care of ourselves, sure, we will take very good care of ourselves, often to the exclusion of dependence on God, or in the knowledge of the Sovereignty of God, is the Plan of God!

Php 4:6  Be anxious for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

What you say that all is of God, is spot on!

Arc

[arion]

Iron sharpens iron Arc.   

I had said; 'take care of yourself the best that you can......' and you came back with '.....is not Scriptural...'

I understand and concur with what Craig said in his first posting '

If God directs anyone to try supplements and diets then do it, He may use these things to help the body fight and be cured or to prolong a persons life, but using a supplement or diet and taking God out of the equation will never work, because God is the equation'

Now then, I'm not saying this in a contentious tone of voice and I add that because it's hard to tell on the internet.  My question would then be since doing the best that you can is not scriptural then should we live as pigs paying no attention to the common sense things such as exercise, diet and doing the things that we can do?   

At some point I would love to see a thread or teaching of fatalism and how that mind set can influence us either for good or bad.  All is of God and that is how I started out my first posting on the thread.  Yet, (I'll make this personal and point the finger at myself and nobody else) I see a bit of a tendency that since all things are preordained and that there is nothing we can do to change what God knows must be, then why even try to change anything?  If I'm sickly, weak or beset with a certain sin, stuck in a certain situation (or anything that is common to the human condition) since this is where God wants me at this point then why even do the things that I can do to change the situation?

The best that I can come up with is since I don't know exactly how God will handle a certain situation I still do what I can and then leave the results to him.  And I think this is what Craig was saying in my quoted portion from his posting.  I really fight being fatalistic at times and maybe this is just something that God is dealing with me on and not something that anyone else has to work out in their own lives.  If for example since this discussion originated on Ray's situation and if Ray felt like that then he wouldn't even of tried to do anything about his cancer.  It all revolves around God as He is at the center and our faith and trust must be in him and him alone....not in what we can do.  But I still think we have to do what we can do and then leave the results up to him.  I hope this makes sense.

[phillip78]

I agree Arion. I will add this. James 2:20 faith without works is dead

[Shawn Fainn]

2 Timothy 4:2

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction.

Romans 15:5-6
Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Deborah-Leigh]

I appreciate your post Shawn.  

Arion I neither contend with Craig, phillip78, you or the Scriptures.  

Regarding doing the best you can not being scriptural, I rest my view in the following Scripture and not as contention, competition or combat. It is just where I am coming from in my view of what I posted that I see is not seen to be edifying but is seen in contention.  

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

You ask :  since doing the best that you can is not scriptural then should we live as pigs paying no attention to the common sense things such as exercise, diet and doing the things that we can do?

Reply : No as this is not what is meant by being spiritually minded is life and peace. Rom 8:6
If you have peace in exercise, diet and eating turnips, then be fully persuaded. Far be it, and God forbid I cause you to stumble. I mean no offence.

The things that you, think do and say, are all caused by and of God. Far be it for me to contend with or against you and God.

God is the influence on the mind causing billions of minds to do and prefer what they do and prefer.

You say : I see a bit of a tendency that since all things are preordained and that there is nothing we can do to change what God knows must be, then why even try to change anything?

That is a sumptuous question deserving of the beautiful edifications that I know can be more tenderly brought to your attention.

If God causes you to try then try you will. If God causes you to succeed or fail, then succeed or fail you will. God is the cause of all of our desires and the accomplishment is in the Power of the Spirit of God to whom rests all outcomes for He knows the beginning from the end. God doesn't change. We have to! We all have to and God is working on exactly that ~ changing us into His Image.

Suffice to say, I believe that there is nothing we can do to change anything. I believe that Jesus Himself said He could do nothing of Himself and He said it , believed it and practiced it, and it was all due to the Spirit of God in Him that controlled Him and not as a robot either but as being one with the Spirit of His Father.

You say : It all revolves around God as He is at the center and our faith and trust must be in him and him alone....not in what we can do.  But I still think we have to do what we can do and then leave the results up to him.  I hope this makes sense.

That "but" word is a real killer. It wipes out everything you so beautifully acknowledged before... the BUT word! Your thinking that you have to do what you think you can do, is caused by God and even thinking that you leave the results up to God, is a thought caused by God bringing into manifestation the condition of your heart that says to and of God, it is His job is to determine the results you leave up to Him after you have done the best you can.  I just see that comment as a bit demeaning of our God who is before and after, the Alpha and the Omega.

No offense meant. as for iron...I am not an iron lady.... ...

Arc

[Kat]

Hi Arion,

I understand where you are coming from, it's pretty much my way of thinking.

God has given us this life experience to learn good and evil. God is certainly in control of everything that we experience, but does He need to learn from what we are doing or is for OUR learning? We learn from what we do (good or evil), even though it is caused. I do NOT believe it has nothing to do with ourselves, I believe it has everything to do with ourself, as God is doing all this for our benefit. Now I know we are not in control and have no good in and of ourself, God is using the physical things we are doing to teach us how to know good from evil. Of course it's all of God, because He is teaching us these things. So as a parent would you teach your child it matters not what they eat? We need to learn to be balanced in all things.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[arion]

Arc,

Very beautifully put it's just that I think your misunderstanding what I'm trying to say...and that's o.k.  When I say that I do the best that I can it's with the full understanding that it is God who works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure.  Jesus did nothing of himself and neither can we.   Whatever I do whether it's in the area of taking care of the body, living my life day in and day out, coming to this forum or reading the scriptures it's because that is what God is causing me to do through his myriad of ways.  My whole comment of doing the best that I can is with the knowledge that God is the ultimate cause behind all that I do but I still have to walk out this life that I have been given step by step.  If you will, I still have to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling...nobody is going to to do that for me.  God bless and have a great day!!

[Shawn Fainn]

I appreciate your post Shawn.  

Oh, I wasn't directing that to anyone in particular. It's just that my 'Satan Radar' was on alert and I had to activate the 'Scripture Rebuke System' to get a remedy.

I'm not sure if this is even the right post.. I just kinda tossed it in there.

[geokuhns]

Very good posts. Here's my 2-cents worth. I take a few supplements. They are food or animal derived and therefore I consider them natural. For example I take Krill Oil which is a natural food source. Wine is a natural food source and could be considered a supplement for particular ailments. (I Tim. 5:23). Before taking any supplement it is important to research them out before taking them. There are many good ones and there are many snake oil products whose primary purpose is making money for the supplier.

For sure ALL is of God. And for sure when it is your time to go there is nothing you can do to prevent it. Here's the proof. Just look in your paper under "Obituaries." You will notice without fail, every day, that everyone dies in alphabetic order.  

[Deborah-Leigh]

Craig

This is for you. 

Your post is fitly spoken like apples of gold in pictures of silver!

Pro 25:11  A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.

Arc

[Deborah-Leigh]

When I say that I do the best that I can it's with the full understanding that it is God who works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure.  Jesus did nothing of himself and neither can we.   Whatever I do whether it's in the area of taking care of the body, living my life day in and day out, coming to this forum or reading the scriptures it's because that is what God is causing me to do through his myriad of ways.  My whole comment of doing the best that I can is with the knowledge that God is the ultimate cause behind all that I do.........

That's important and that I understand!

Pro 25:11  A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver. ...to you too Arion!

Arc

[cjwood]

For sure ALL is of God. And for sure when it is your time to go there is nothing you can do to prevent it. Here's the proof. Just look in your paper under "Obituaries." You will notice without fail, every day, that everyone dies in alphabetic order.  

george, i wanted to thank you for this bit of levity. i had to laugh out loud.

claudia