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Was Jesus Christ created?

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mharrell08:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12075.0.html -------------

Dear Andy:

Thank you for your email and questions.  I'm afraid that I cannot go into much detail at present, although  I have spend
probably a couple of hundred hours on this subject this past year, and intend to write a paper on it in the future, but not
today. It will probbly be titled: "Is Jesus GOD?"

A couple of things: When I wrote that paper on the Trinity (about ten years ago), I unfortunately allowed myself to use terms
that trinitarians use (example, "person").  I have since spend many many hours in the Scriptures on the trinitarian use of
that word "person."  It is a most unforunate choice of words to describe God. Conclusion:  Jesus IS a person, whereas
His Father is NOT a person.  Don't have time to prove it now, but that's the truth.  And no, I do not teach that the Holy
Spirit OF God is a person.  I have no idea where you thought that I might be teaching that.

While it is true that Jesus did NOT say:  "I and My Father are One GOD," there nonetheless, needs further clarification
on that verse, which I did not cover in my paper. My new paper will be rather lengthy, I'm afraid, as the subject of the
divinity of Jesus is a huge subject.

Here is another point for you to ponder until my paper comes out (and no, it won't be in the six months, so don't be
looking for it any time soon).  Look at I Cor. 8:6 again.  Notice that it does not say, "But to us there is but one God, the Father."
(Period).  Nor does it say, "One Lord Jesus Christ." (Period).  There is more to consider.  Is this verse saying that "God the
Father" is the ONLY God," and that Jesus, therefore cannot also be "God?"  For sure Jesus can't be HIS OWN FATHER, but
can Jesus also be "the ONE God?"  Look at that first statement again, as it IS in the Scripture as I will re-emphasize the
words to make this one point:  "But to us there is but ONE God, the Father, OF WHOM ARE ALL THINGS."  There is only
One God, the Father,  OUT OF Whom ALL IS" (Concordant Literal New Testament and The Emphatic Diaglott).  Then

concerning Jesus we read:  "One Lord Jesus Christ, BY Whom are all things."
"Of" and "by" are two different words--"of" is applied to the Father, where as "by" is applied to the Son.  Actually the word
"by" is better translated "through," but that doesn't change the fact that they are different and are applied to different actions.

(See Rotherham's emphasized Bible, The Emphatic Diaglott, and The Concordant Literal New Testament for verification
of the word "through").  All creation is "OF" God the Father, but since Jesus was also created, not all creation is OF Jesus.
But the act of creation is attributed to Jesus (See I Collosians, etc.), hence it is "through" Jesus that all the things of creation
are brought into existence by or "through" Jesus Christ.
 
I'll have to end with that. As I said, this is a very large subject, but I will try to write on it in the future, God willing.

God be with you,

Ray


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.msg27962.html#msg27962---------


Jesus Christ when He acts on behalf of God, with the power of God, The knowledge of God, wisdom of God, and the love of God, with the strength of God and the character of God, IT IS GOD.  But He is not the Father.  He came to reveal the Father.

John 7:29  “But I (Jesus Christ) know Him (the Father), for I am from Him, and He has sent Me.
Now you know the one that sends someone is greater than the one who was sent.

John 13:3  “Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands,
and that He had come from God and went to God,”

Where did Jesus Christ come from?  Well was it the Trinity, the third part of the Trinity?  A third part of the Trinity, equal with the other two parts of the God Trinity?  NO, He came from God.

So in John 13:3  “and that HE CAME FROM GOD,” that’s where Jesus came from, GOD.
Not from the Godhead, not from the Trinity, FROM GOD.

John 16:27  “for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I CAME OUT FROM GOD.”  (Just like Eve came out from Adam)
v. 28  “I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER, and have come into the world.”

1 John 4:9  “In this the love of God was revealed in us, because GOD SENT HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON into the world that we might live through Him.”

v. 14  And we have seen and testify that THE FATHER SENT THE SON to be the Savior of the world.

Heb 1:2  “has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom HE HAS APPOINTED heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,”

If Jesus Christ was part of a triune god, a trinity, then nobody’s appointed anybody, nobody is sending anybody.  There is not one greater authority in a perfect equilateral triangle.  But Christ said, My Father is greater than I, (John 14:28).

Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

The beginning was the Word of God, what did God began with?  Jesus Christ, right?  The Word, that’s what God began with, Jesus Christ is the beginning.

In Gen. 1:1 it says, “In the beginning[ Heb: reshiyth - spec. Firstfruits] God [Heb: Elohim] created the heavens and the earth”
 
We read in 1 Cor 15:20  “But now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the Firstfruit of those who slept.”

That Jesus Christ “became the Firstfruit of those who slept.”  Who is the Firstfurit?  JESUS CHRIST.

Where did Jesus come from:  John 7:29; John 13:3; John 9:42; John 16: 27-28; 1 John 4:9, 14.
 
Jesus was created by the Father; Heb 1:2; Rev 3:14.  Jesus Christ was created and than became the Creator of all.  So when you talk about Jesus Christ, you are talking about God.  But you are talking about the One who was begotten in the God family, and one who could be emptied and formed such as a man.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.msg99627.html#msg99627---------

If Jesus were ‘just a man’ why did He need to be conceived by the Holy Spirit of God at all? Why couldn’t He be JUST a normal Jewish boy born to a normal Jewish mother AND FATHER? Why? Why did He need to be more than ‘just a man?’ Why did He need to be a SPECIAL DIVINE MAN?

If Jesus Christ were nothing but a human being He did not have to be conceived by God, He did not have to empty Himself, He did not have to be made lower than an angel so He could die.  All men die. Just pay attention to the words.

Mr. Buzzard has a footnote on page 191 where he makes a comment from a dictionary about Revelation 3:14 where it says Jesus Christ is “the beginning of the creation of God.” Concordant translates it “God's Creative Original." Now that is a profound Scripture, I mean that’s one of those really profound Scripture. That is not a false translation or anything.

Rev 3:14  …write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Jesus Christ the “beginning of the creation of God.” He is “the beginning.”

Col 1:16  for in Him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through Him, and unto Him;

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