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Author Topic: matt 20:16  (Read 3410 times)

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lauriellen

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matt 20:16
« on: October 25, 2010, 10:08:06 PM »

i have been re-reading through the 'lake of fire' series and in part 8 Ray gives
matt 20:16 as a reference.....he was explaining the last half of the verse, but he made a statement about the first half of the verse, which is what my question is.  Ray wrote, 'sorry, i don't have time to explain this unique statement of our Lord'......talking of the first half of the verse "So the last shall be first, and the first shall be last...".....does anyone know if Ray has explained this "unique statement" in any of his other writings or ever explained anything about this in any bible study or conferences? i did a quick site search but did not come up with anything else on this particular verse. The verse sounds simple enough, but i can't help but think there is more there than meets the eye.....and Ray's statement seems to suggest as much. i just seem to be coming back to this verse for some reason....any help appreciated.
thanks,
lauriellen
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 06:54:04 AM »

Hi lauriellen

As far as I know, Ray has not expounded further on this Scripture.

That should not stop you however. You have many tools that Ray has supplied for us to do our own digging and you can take that Scripture and open up the tool box.

The 12 Truths to understanding God's Word.

Happy digging! 8) :)

Blessings

Arc
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G. Driggs

  • Guest
Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 07:06:00 AM »

Here is an email where Ray say's it is physical Israel that will be saved last, and spiritual Israel (Gentiles) will be saved first.

http://www.bible-truths.com/emails.html

Dear Gina:

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement.

Sadly, not all get as excited over the grand Truths of God as you do, but we know this is a time of apostasy and failing faith. Jesus asked, when the Son of Man returns to this earth, will He find faith?  Not much!  But it is all part of God's plan, just as your questions confirm.

Many are called, but few are chosen, and the last shall be first and first shall be last. Israel was hand-picked of all nations to be God's example of how a nation can be blessed and prosper when they obey and love God. Israel did not pass the test. God proved through Israel, that the carnal mind cannot keep the laws of God, nor can the carnal mind live God and love neighbor.  So God is calling out a people who are not in a place of honor in this world. Poor people in the city, farmers, peasants, unlearned, people to a large extent.

As in the bidding to the wedding feast, God said bid the poor, maimed, the blind, etc., to come to the feast (of salvation). Paul said,

    "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that NOT MANY wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:  But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak thing of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and thighs which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to being to naught things that are" (I Cor. 1:26-28).

I know that I fit into this bunch of social rejects. But thank God He is making KINGS out of peasants!

So God is now calling a "spiritual Israel" who obey from the mind and heart, seeing that that is where God has placed His Holy Spirit.  And so the "Children of the kingdom" (those who were in line for he throne--Israel) are set aside unto God chooses from the Gentiles a people to bear His Name. And then, Israel of old will be grafted back into the tree of life (Rom. 11), all Israel will then be saved, as well as the rest of Gentile world.

May God continue to bless and inspire you, Gina, as you yield to His perfect will for your life.

Ray
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is an copy and paste where Ray talks a little of WHY Israel will be the last to be saved.

http://www.bible-truths.com/kendy2.htm

God is now calling sons out of the nations, while Israel [the hardened ones] "stumble on the stumbling stone" (Vers. 25-33). Paulís heart is set on their salvation, however (Rom. 10:1-2). "Everyone, whoever should be invoking the name of the Lord, shall be saved" (Ver. 13). Paul says, however, that this is not possible unless they "believe," "from one heralding," who is "commissioned" (Vers. 14-16). But Isaiah asks: "Lord, who believes our tidings?" (Ver. 16). Obviously not "hardened Israel." So God says: "I became disclosed to those who are not inquiring of Me" [the Gentiles] (Ver. 20).

Paul then says:

    "Does not God thrust away His people? May it not be coming to that!" (Rom. 11:1).

That is unthinkable to Paul. So he quickly assures us that:

    "God does not thrust away His people whom He foreknew" (Ver 2).

Of course God foreknew everything that is happening in the history of Israel from their beginning. Although Israel as a nation has been hardened, and become "a stubborn and contradicting people" (Ver. 21), nonetheless, even in Paulís day God called a "... remnant according to the choice of grace" (Ver. 5). However,

    "Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day" (Ver. 6).

Why does God harden Israel and callous them? So that He can torture them in fire for all eternity? Ridiculous. Paul answers his own question:

    "Do they [Israel] not trip that they should be falling? May it not be coming to that! But in their offense is salvation to the nations, to [to what? Have a reason for throwing them in Hell for eternity?] provoke them to jealousy" (Ver. 11).

God uses evil FOR GOOD! Israelís hardened and calloused heart is preparing them for salvation! They will be so jealous when they see what God has done for the Gentiles.

Paul summarizes this whole process by stating:

    "For if their [Israel] casting away is the conciliation of the world, what will the taking back be if not life from among the dead?" (Ver. 15).

    And this: "... that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering" (Ver. 25).

And then what happens?

    "And thus ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED ..." (Ver. 26). "I should be eliminating their sins" (Ver. 27).

This is all temporary. Being "hardened" back in Chapter 9:18 is not an eternal judgment. Temporarily, for a grand purpose,

    "... they [Israel] are enemies because of you [Gentiles], yet, as to choice, they are BELOVED ..." (Rom. 11:28).

Notice that Israel is Godís "enemy." What did Christ teach us regarding our "enemies?"

    "Yet I am saying to you, LOVE your enemies ..." Matt. 5:44).

God our Father is not a hypocrite. Do you have the audacity, Dr. Kennedy, to tell us that Almighty God is going to torture in Hell fire for eternity, His "BELOVED"?

Here is exactly how this scenario plays itself out:

    "For unregretted are the graces and the calling of God. For even as you [Gentiles] once were stubborn toward God, yet now were shown mercy at their [Israelís] stubbornness, thus these also are now stubborn to this mercy of yours, that now they also may be shown MERCY. For God locks up all (Jews and Gentiles) together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to ALL" (Rom. 11:29-32).

It is very clear, Dr. Kennedy, the ones that are "hardened" in Romans 9:18 are not forever rejected by God as you teach, but are rather the very ones that God "saves" in Romans 11:26).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Peace,

G.Driggs
« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 07:09:52 AM by G. Driggs »
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2010, 08:00:10 AM »


Great catch G.Driggs! 8) ;D

Blessings dear brother!

Arc
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Samson

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Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 11:03:19 AM »


Great catch G.Driggs! 8) ;D

Blessings dear brother!

Arc


Hey George,

                 I second that, Deborah's remark. I was about to go a looking for Ray's Email regarding that Scripture, good job Brother, you beat me to the punch,  ;).

                               Kind Regards, Samson.
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Marky Mark

  • Guest
Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 01:41:56 PM »

Mat 20:16  So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.


Mat 13:17  For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Heb 11:39  And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.



Peace...Mark
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grapehound

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Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 02:08:59 PM »

Great post Mark,
It's breathtaking to see the integrity of His word; the way it all dovetails together perfectly.
Hebrews 11 blows me away. A superb witness to Mat 13.

Thanks bro
Every blessing

Grape
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lauriellen

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Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 07:30:32 PM »

thanks for all the responses.....i guess i keep thinking about the parable before the verse talks about how some workers came early in the day, and then some came later,...and then it talks about how when they were given their wages, they were paid out starting with the last paid first, and the workers who came earlier in the day were paid last...is this talking about the order of ressurection? (each man in his own order with those who lived last raised first?).....and many scriptures where Jesus says that He IS the first and the last?....i know Ray has taught that Jesus was the first Adam and the last Adam, but i would love to hear him expound more on this subject...not that is should matter (i guess) what order, but if God inspired these words to be put into His scriptures, i think they would have importance to us.  If God has given you the 'spiritual' eyes to see these truths, you should be very thankful....as i REALLY struggle to see & understand (even simple scriptures like this), but even after some of these things are explained to me, i feel like the disciples who after Jesus explained, they said, "oh, now we understand'...(& like Ray says, yea right, they were still blind as bats! lol)
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grapehound

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Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2010, 07:43:01 PM »

Love your honesty Lauriellen, but y'know God's given us more through Ray than most could hope for in a lifetime.
So, I reckon He's given us the spades and said, "Get diggin' kids!"

Good diggin'!! and please share! Dad will be so pleased !

Grape
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2010, 05:28:25 AM »


i know Ray has taught that Jesus was the first Adam and the last Adam,

Hey lauriellen

.....where did Ray teach that Jesus was the first and last Adam?........

Blessings

Arc
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lauriellen

  • Guest
Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2010, 12:22:12 PM »

sorry, poor choice of words....should have said 'represents' or symbolizes may be a better word choice...anyway, i know i have read "somewhere" in Rays writings about the significance of the FIRST ADAM, (earthy) & the LAST ADAM (spirit)....which pictures Christ. my bad.
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: matt 20:16
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2010, 01:04:22 PM »

Hey lauriellen

I don't want you to feel bad! :(

I remember that Ray wrote about Adam and Eve and it is so liberating what Ray expounds! 8) It is there for us in LOF 15 8)

As I understand it, Adam and Eve are the man of earth...earthy and as such we have no freedom or power or authority to be or act independently of God's will and God's choices for us! Ref : L Ray Smith page 27 LOF 15

I have heard it falsly taught that the first and last Adam together are Jesus Christ and that is why I was alerted to what you wrote. For me, that false teaching runs parallel to the false teaching that Satan is Lucifer or that Adam is fallen.  It is similar to the false teaching the Jesus Christ was sin! We know He was is and ever shall be the pre-eminent Son of God, the First Fruit,  The Spotless Lamb of God and the sin offering not the sin as is all expounded by Ray. 8) and truly taught to us here in BT.

Blessings to you sister
Arc
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