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[acomplishedartis]

Hi. I know these subject has already been questioned and responded before, I completely agree that The Devil is not our own carnal mind. I am just making and exercise for reinforcement and clarification that might be of some help for others.
I think that these ''Devil-carnal mind idea'' might be not as evil as other teachings regarding Satan, however it contradict many Scriptures.
It is understandable that some might be confused if they are strugling with what is literal and what is not.

So, If you have a good one to add...


           If the devil is our carnal mind...  

- then God was talking with ''who's carnal mind?'' in Job 1:12, and God used these ''nobody’s carnal mind'' to try Job.


- then it could be sugested that Jesus had a carnal mind (a Satan in him);
  
"Because the carnal mind is enmity [hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be..." (Rom. 8:6-8).
''Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth...''(1 Pet 2:22)


- Then ''the carnal mind'' (of whom?) entered Judas. And, how come? if Judas has already his own Satan in him? I guess Now he had two carnal minds in him. -- And the same goes with Peter;

''Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him [Judas]. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.'' (John 13:27)                                                                                                              
"But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind Me, SATAN..." (Matt. 16:23).

[Kat]

Hi Moises,

You made some good points there. Here is where Ray speaks about Satan, concerning our 'carnal mind.'


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1707.0.html ------------

I am familiar with the "Satan is your carnal mind" theory. Just two Scriptures might help you understand this cannot be Scripturally true:
 
[1] Rev. 20:1-3--Is God really going to "bind the carnal mind of all mankind" for a thousand years, and then give it back to them once again?  If no one has a carnal mind (sinful nature) how could they become sinful once again, and only for a short season?
 
[2] I Cor. 5:5--How can our flesh (sinful nature) destroy our flesh (sinful nature)? This is in contradiction to our Lord's statments concerning "Satan casting out Satan" (Matt. 12:26).
 
ALL THE SCRIPTURES must agree.
 
 
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2121.0.html ------------

"Surely he cannot be the wicked part of our carnal nature."
Surely you cannot believe that "Jesus was led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of THE WICKED PART OF HIS CARNAL NATURE," do you? (Matt. 4:1).  Do you really believe that Jesus had a CARNAL WICKED NATURE?  Sorry, but I don't have the time to do a major paper on Satan at this time. See my "Lake of Fire" series on the "Origin of Sin and Satan."


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6300.0.html -----------------

Was it "the carnal mind" that presented itself to God in the opening chapters of Job?  Did Jesus tells HIS OWN "CARNAL MIND" to "get behind Me, SATAN?" (Luke 4:08)?  Did Jesus have a "carnal mind?" A "satan" within Him?  Is God going to chain the "carnal mind" in the abyss for a thousand years (Rev. 20:1-2)?  Is He then going to release  the "carnal mind" for a little season?


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,75.0.html -------------

You believe what you believe because you do not believe the Scriptures.

Was Jesus really tempted by His "fallen carnal mind--His evil nature?"  Was Jesus referring to"His own carnal nature" that Jesus said, "Get thee behind Me, Satan?"   Was Jesus' "carnal evil nature," "enmity against God?"  Did Jesus really HATE HIS OWN FATHER?   It's an "idol of your heart," Timothy, give up.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4015.msg30815.html#msg30815 ----

I personally
    > believe that Satan is not one person since in Hebrew satan is always translated
    > as The Satan, and is not a proper noun but simply a common noun since Ha
    > (meaning the) is at the beginning of the word. I was wondering if you agree
    > with this or have ever heard of this before.
    > -Jeremy
     
    Dear Jeremy:

While it is true that often (not always, especially in the Greek Scriptures) the article is found before the noun, that does not of itself prove that it is a common noun. Sometimes we find the article in front of the word "God."--The God.  I will not argue that there are times that "adversary" may not deserve a capital letter, but then again, not always.
    Just who was "the" Adversary/Accuser who came before God in the book of Job? Was it just a generic common noun that came and SPOKE to God regarding Job. Did Jesus tell a common noun to "Get thee behind Me?"  Is God going to symbolically chain a common noun for a thousand years in Rev. 20:1-3? Etc.

    God be with you,
    Ray

[acomplishedartis]

here some more;


If the devil is our own carnal mind...----Every time we read 'Satan' or the 'Devil' or 'the crooked serpent', or 'the old serpent', then  it means "the carnal mind";

ON THE NEXT VERSES, IT NEVER FITS

(*note: I took these verses copying and pasting from 'the lake of fire series')

• "Submit yourselves therefore to God, Resist the Devil, AND HE WILL FLEE [Gk: 'run away, vanish'] FROM YOU" (James 4:7).

• "And the Devil that deceived them WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone..." (Rev. 20:16)

• "You are of your father the Devil... " (John 8:44)

• "By HIS SPIRIT He hath garnished the heavens; his HAND has FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT" (Job 26:13).

• "And the LORD said, Simon, Simon, behold, SATAN hath desired to have you, that he may SIFT you as wheat" (Luke 22:31).

• "And no marvel  [Gk: to wonder with ASTONISHMENT]; for Satan himself is transformed [Gk: meta schematizo, transfigure -- to change the outward form or appearance, to make GLORIOUS] into an ANGEL OF LIGHT"(II Cor. 11:14).

• "And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel" (I Chron. 21:1).

• "And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and SATAN standing at his right hand to resist him" (Zech. 3:1).

• "And God saw EVERY THING that He had made [including Satan, the Adversary], and, behold, it was VERY GOOD…"(Gen. 1:31).

• "Again, the DEVIL takes Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and shows Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; and says to Him, All these things will I give You, if You will fall down and worship me" (Matt. 4:8-9).

• "and when the devil had ended all the temptation [Gk: testing], he departed from Him for a season [Gk: until an opportune time]" (Luke 4:13).

• "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; But I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not: and when thou are converted, strengthen your brethren" (Luke 22:31).

• "Now the serpent [Satan, that old serpent, Rev. 5:9] was more subtle than any beast of the field…" (Gen. 3:1).

• "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews and are not" (Rev. 3:99).

• "And the GREAT DRAGON was cast out, that OLD SERPENT, called THE DEVIL, and SATAN [Heb: Adversary], which DECEIVES THE WHOLE WORLD and he was cast out into THE EARTH, and his angels were cast out with him" (Rev. 12:9).

• "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write… I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews [in the Smyrna church], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan… And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write… I will make them of the synagogue of Satan [in the Philadelphia church], and are not but do lie…" (Rev. 2:8 & 9; 3:7 & 9).

• "Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison…" (Rev. 2:10).

• "the Devil and his angels, which deceive the whole world" (Rev. 12:9).

• "...you child of the Devil, you enemy of all righteousness..." Acts 13:10

• "And no marvel; for Satan HIMSELF is transformed into an AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. Therefore it is no great thing if HIS MINISTERS also be transformed as the MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS; whose end shall be according to their works" (II Cor. 11:14-15)


  And vice versa;If the 'carnal mind' is the 'devil':

•  For to be carnally minded is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Romans 8:6)

[acomplishedartis]

and just to finish it.

Here are some good points that L.Ray Smith has made respecting the Carnal mind and  ''Satan and the carnal mind'', and the mind  


Carnal mind

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html - SATAN ALWAYS SHOWS UP WHERE HE IS NEEDED

Satan entered Eden as "that Old Serpent [Satan]" and deceived Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. Satan didn’t sneak into the garden against God’s will. He performed a needful task with our first parents. God knew what Satan was going to do to Adam and Eve. God did not try to prevent it. It is all part of God’s master plan.

Just as God has provided food for mankind, He has also provided food for Satan. And just what kind of food does Satan dine on?  Satan dines on mankind.

"And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and DUST SHALL YOU EAT all the days of your life" (Gen. 3:14).

This is, of course a parable. That "serpent" in the garden was none other than

"…that OLD SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world…" (Rev. 12:9).

And this is the same serpent that "deceived" Eve.

Man is the "dust of the earth" upon which Satan dines: "The first man [Adam] is of the earth, earthy [dust]…" (I Cor. 15:47). Man IS ‘dust.’

"…for DUST you are, and unto DUST shall you return" (Gen. 3:19).

When God told the serpent devil Satan that he would eat DUST, He was telling him that he would eat MAN (adam). And this is exactly what Peter tells us in his epistle:

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour [Gk: swallow down/eat]" (I Pet. 5:.

Satan dines and thrives on the meat of the "carnal [Greek: sarx; flesh] mind [which] is enmity [hostility/hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

Satan does not seek to devour everyone for food; only those who are carnally [fleshly] minded represent a great steak dinner to him.
Satan even had King David for dinner:

"And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel" (I Chron. 21:1).

------------
http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html

JUST WHAT IS CARNALITY

What then is it to be carnal or carnally minded? It’s not good, I can tell you that. It’s a monster—IT’S A BEAST:

"for to be carnally minded is DEATH…"

And just why is that?

"Because the carnal mind is enmity [DEEP-SEATED HATRED] against God: for it is NOT SUBJECT to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed CAN BE [Gk: ‘is ABLE’]. So then they that are in the flesh [carnal-minded] CANNOT please God" (Rom. 8:6-8).

•   Have YOU ever seen yourself as the man of sin?
•   Do you believe that YOU were once the son of perdition?
•   Have YOU ever been carnally-minded in your walk with God?
•   Have YOU ever left your first love?
•   Have YOU ever put your hand to the plough and looked back?
•   Has the spiritual house YOU built upon the sand fallen yet?
•   Have you fallen from grace since first believing?

No? You say, "NO—NEVER"! Then the chances are great that "ye are YET carnal."
 
WHEN WILL I SEE THE BEAST WITHIN?

Paul wasn’t telling the unbelieving world that "ye are yet carnal." Nor was Jesus telling the world that they had "left the first love." No, Paul and Jesus are both telling THE CHURCH that they are "yet carnal and have left their first love"! In other words, AFTER coming into a church, AFTER they have accepted Christ, AFTER they have pursued their walk with God, AFTER they have built a spiritual house upon the sand, AFTER they have become indoctrinated with the commandments of men and the traditions of men, can one fall away and be in a position to actually spiritually SEE THE BEAST WITHIN! SEE the man of sin and the son of perdition. See your carnal-minded, God hating, SINS. You and I and all who have be enlightened by God’s word and our own failures in life, can surely see that we are all spiritually, WILD BEASTS.

If you insist that: "Ray! I don’t see myself as a spiritual BEAST, or a man of SIN, or the son of PERDITION [destruction]." Well, all I can to say is to parrot Paul: "YE ARE YET CARNAL."



About Satan and the carnal mind

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html - SATAN WAS CAST OUT INTO THE EARTH

Satan is a carnal-minded spirit. That may sound like a contradiction of terms, but I assure you that it is not. Carnal means fleshly, material, temporal. Satan deals with the flesh, material things, and temporal gratification. Satan is a spirit who thinks like a carnal-minded man. Although spirit by nature, Satan eats "dust."

Why do you suppose we read this in Matt. 16:23:

"But He turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, SATAN!"?

Because Satan was looking for lunch. And Peter was going to be Satan’s lunch! Satan dines on the "dust" of man’s carnality (which is enmity against God). In Luke 22:31 we read this:

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you [laid claim on you], that he may sift you as wheat."

Satan was sifting Simon out of the chaff as a morsel of fine food to make a meal of him! Only Jesus could have seen it coming and prevented it. How often has Satan made a fine dinner of your carnal mind?

Satan’s domain is the carnal mind, the flesh, the "dust" of this earth:

"Now the serpent [Satan, that old serpent, Rev. 5:9] was more subtle than any beast of the field…" (Gen. 3:1).

"And Satan stood up against [physical] Israel in the land of Israel"… (I Chron. 21:1).

"And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth…" (Job 1:7).

And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea all that a man has will he give for his life. But put forth your hand now, and touch his bone and HIS FLESH, and he will curse you to your face. And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in your hand; but save his life. So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown" (Job 2:4-7).

"Then entered Satan into Judas [flesh, earth]…" (Luke 22:3).

"But Peter said, Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie…" (Acts 5:3).

"And behold there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years… And ought not this woman… whom Satan has bound…" (Luke 13:11 & 16).

"And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet…" (Rom. 16:20).

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour [Gk: swallow down]" (I Pet. 5:.

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of of Satan to buffet me…" (II Cor. 12:7).

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews and are not" (Rev. 3:99).
"…who was slain among you, where Satan dwells" (Rev. 2:13b).

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth" (Rev. 20:7-8).

"Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom [their flesh] I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme" (I Tim. 1:20).

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh…" (I Cor. 5:5).

That should be enough to make it abundantly clear as to where Satan’s domain is—in the flesh of man, on the earth.


and regarding the mind  

http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html - GOD’S HEAVEN IS HIGHER THAN MAN’S HEAVEN

Satan is the god of this world (II Cor. 4:4). Satan possesses ALL the kingdoms of the world (Matt. 4:8-9). Satan appears to the heads of his nations as an angel of light (I Cor. 11:12). It was Satan who appealed to the heaven of Eve’s mind. It was Satan that caused the people to build a tower that would reach MAN’S concept of heaven. The heaven of the minds of those conceiving of such lofty things. It was Satan who caused the king of Babylon to be lifted up in his own heaven, his own mind. Listen to his own words:

"At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. The king spake, and said, is not this GREAT BABYLON, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of MY power, and for the honour of MY MAJESTY?"

The king of Babylon had a dream, and in the dream his kingdom was likened to a tree:

"The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached into HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:11).

The kingdom of Babylon didn’t grow into GOD’S heaven, that’s for sure. No, Daniel identifies who the tree represents:
"The tree that you saw… It is YOU, O king, that are grown and become strong: for your greatness is grown, and reached unto HEAVEN…" (Dan. 4:20a & 22).

The king of Babylon reached the same heaven that the city of Capernaum reached:

"And thou Capernaum, which art exalted to HEAVEN, shall be thrust down to hell [hades/death/the grave]" (Luke 10:15).

Sinful Capernaum was never exalted to GOD’S heaven, but to their OWN HEAVEN, the heaven of their own minds. Their city never left the surface of the earth, but IN THEIR MINDS they thought they had reached "heaven." Now then, with this in mind, let us move ahead two verses and see how all these Scriptures tie in and harmonize together. Verse 17:

"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."

Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).

God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.

Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,

"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).

Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.

"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH [of man] and the HEAVEN [of man] fled away; and there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev. 20:11, 16 & 21:1).

It would be mind-boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could "flee away," but it would be quite another to then suggest that, "there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM." That would be absurd if taken literally. ALL THESE THINGS ARE SPIRITUAL! In the white throne judgment there will be no more a place for the flesh, for the carnal mind, for man’s heaven. There will truly be no place found for them. They will be annihilated in God’s "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29 & I Cor. 3:15)!

God will give man a new earth and a new heaven, and as for the great sea of carnal, God-defying humanity, "…and there was NO MORE SEA."




Also, Sombody on the forum said these before;

''Satan is a spiritual being, so he always is in the spiritual realm, though he influences the carnal mind here in the physical.''

I wonder if it match whit these

“For by Him were all things created that are in the heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers ALL things were created by Him, and for Him” (Col. 1:16).

"And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown, but when they have heard, SATAN comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in the hearts" (Mark 4:15).

"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; But I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not: and when thou are converted, strengthen your brethren" Luke 22:31).

 
If the devil is our carnal mind, then God’s tools for His plan of Universal Salvation would be incomplete, without the destructor. We are already the Beast, but NOT the devil. And if the devil is our carnal mind then verses and more verses would contradict over and over again.

[grapehound]

A very thorough study Moises. Thank you for the time and effort you have put into it.
A good reminder of the truth that we have been blessed with through this site.

Blessings

Grape

[Joel]

Greetings Mosies
Satan doesn't cast out Satan.
Those that are carnal Satan has no problems with, its when we are Godly minded and God has given us of his Spirit that Satan has reason to battle.
Worldly people are already fodder and pawns of Satan.
As Ray has related many times, every major doctrine of Babylon is false when brought under close scrutiny of the Scriptures.
The good Shepherd will keep his sheep safe.
G od versus  evil
  o              d
Thanks for the thoughts and scriptures
Joel