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Author Topic: Hm...  (Read 22683 times)

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rocky

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2006, 10:27:01 PM »

So what goes into the Lake of Fire??  Soul?? 

Spirit + (spiritual) body = (glorified immortal) soul, goes into the lake of fire.

Here is what i struggle with, Spirit (capitalized, meaning Holy Spirit) plus a spiritual body = glorified immortal soul goes into lof, but yet is carnal???  makes no sense to me.  a Carnal glorified immortal soul???

The carnal mind is death.  Is not the lof, the death of death???  so seems to me the carnal mind has to be in LOF
« Last Edit: July 06, 2006, 10:32:22 PM by rocky »
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Sorin

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2006, 11:38:45 PM »

Deedle,

That was quite interesting. hmm...

Nightmare,

That was well said indeed. And I agree.
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2006, 01:47:44 AM »

So what goes into the Lake of Fire??  Soul?? 

Spirit + (spiritual) body = (glorified immortal) soul, goes into the lake of fire.

Here is what i struggle with, Spirit (capitalized, meaning Holy Spirit) plus a spiritual body = glorified immortal soul goes into lof, but yet is carnal???  makes no sense to me.  a Carnal glorified immortal soul???

The carnal mind is death.  Is not the lof, the death of death???  so seems to me the carnal mind has to be in LOF

The bodies the sinners are resurrected in are immortal, that's what glorified means, I think. You can be immortally carnal, look at Satan.
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2006, 02:16:49 AM »

So what goes into the Lake of Fire??  Soul?? 

Spirit + (spiritual) body = (glorified immortal) soul, goes into the lake of fire.

Here is what i struggle with, Spirit (capitalized, meaning Holy Spirit) plus a spiritual body = glorified immortal soul goes into lof, but yet is carnal???  makes no sense to me.  a Carnal glorified immortal soul???

The carnal mind is death.  Is not the lof, the death of death???  so seems to me the carnal mind has to be in LOF

The bodies the sinners are resurrected in are immortal, that's what glorified means, I think. You can be immortally carnal, look at Satan.

I personally think that the soul  and carnal mind coexist together, and they only exist in the flesh (flesh plus spirit), and I don't think we are resurrected a soul.  2nd Adam is a life giving spirit, not a soul. 

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Is there scripture that says we will be resurrected an immortal soul???  Comparing satan to our resurrected state i don't think is a good comparison, satan never was resurrected, and I don't think satan is an immortal soul. 

I just struggle with concept of a carnal soul after the resurrection.  I don't think there is scripture to back it up.  If there is, please let me know.  thanks.     

To be carnally minded is death.  Are we resurrected into a state of death??? 
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Lightseeker

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2006, 02:48:48 AM »

orion77
 
Quote
The two verses you quoted were in the NT and speaking to believers.  True believers have what in them?...the Holy Spirit.

Scripture says we have a born again spirit in John 3.  Is that The Holy Spirit?  I don't think so because Romans says "The Spirit bears witness with our spirit...". The assumption that 'our born again spirit' is 'a holy spirit' is my present view.  Being born again is like the prodigal son's father crying, "This my son was dead but now is alive."  That son was never really 'dead' by our definition of dead and neither is our spirit dead until rebirth from above. A rebirth isn't a resurrection.  I think scripture states our spirit in our body and The Spirit is in the corporate body and upon each of us as individual.  But that's digressing from the thread.
 
Quote
Not sure if this is a help.  Yet, before Christ came to be in us, we were a soul composed of body and spirit, which is a soul.  Then, upon Christs Spirit coming in us, now we are more than what is spoken in Genesis.  That Spirit, that Word, is the Light, which is the very God of peace, which sanctifies us.

What about the OT people who had the spirit of Christ in them...before Jesus came/died?  Were they "more than what is spoken of in Genesis" too? 
 
Quote
This oneness, with Him in us and us in Him, and us in each other, is the greatest lesson we can learn if this life.  Let us be at peace with a holyness, from Him in the oneness that is between God and us, personally, towards a oneness in each other.  Maybe this is what these verses speak of.  Hope this helps, it helped me just looking them up.  


Great last paragraph.  Majoring on the major IMO.  But.... ;)....one slight squirm for me.  "Onenes with Him in us and us in Him" is right on with me.  But where are you coming from concerning "us in each other"?  That's a new one for me.


Nightmare,

Quote
The bodies the sinners are resurrected in are immortal, that's what glorified means, I think.


Jesus manifested a glorified body on the mount of transfiguration and then died...eg capable of death...eg mortal.
COL 1:20  And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.  

Wasn't Satan in either 'heaven or earth' in the above scripture?  So is he not also reconciled?
 
Quote
You can be immortally carnal, look at Satan.


As concerning Satan being immortally carnal...is He not part of what will be made new if reconciled?

REV 21:5  And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.  

Rocky,

Good thoughts...I think.   ;D
 
 
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2006, 05:39:49 AM »

So what goes into the Lake of Fire??  Soul?? 

Spirit + (spiritual) body = (glorified immortal) soul, goes into the lake of fire.

Here is what i struggle with, Spirit (capitalized, meaning Holy Spirit) plus a spiritual body = glorified immortal soul goes into lof, but yet is carnal???  makes no sense to me.  a Carnal glorified immortal soul???

The carnal mind is death.  Is not the lof, the death of death???  so seems to me the carnal mind has to be in LOF

The bodies the sinners are resurrected in are immortal, that's what glorified means, I think. You can be immortally carnal, look at Satan.

I personally think that the soul  and carnal mind coexist together, and they only exist in the flesh (flesh plus spirit), and I don't think we are resurrected a soul.  2nd Adam is a life giving spirit, not a soul. 

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Is there scripture that says we will be resurrected an immortal soul???  Comparing satan to our resurrected state i don't think is a good comparison, satan never was resurrected, and I don't think satan is an immortal soul. 

I just struggle with concept of a carnal soul after the resurrection.  I don't think there is scripture to back it up.  If there is, please let me know.  thanks.     

To be carnally minded is death.  Are we resurrected into a state of death??? 

You could argue that since a soul = spirit + (fleshy) body, that resurrected bodies are not living souls, because they are not composed of fleshy bodies, but spiritual bodies.

I don't know.

We're not spirits alone, though, we have spiritual bodies.
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2006, 05:40:27 AM »

So what goes into the Lake of Fire??  Soul?? 

Spirit + (spiritual) body = (glorified immortal) soul, goes into the lake of fire.

Here is what i struggle with, Spirit (capitalized, meaning Holy Spirit) plus a spiritual body = glorified immortal soul goes into lof, but yet is carnal???  makes no sense to me.  a Carnal glorified immortal soul???

The carnal mind is death.  Is not the lof, the death of death???  so seems to me the carnal mind has to be in LOF

The bodies the sinners are resurrected in are immortal, that's what glorified means, I think. You can be immortally carnal, look at Satan.

I personally think that the soul  and carnal mind coexist together, and they only exist in the flesh (flesh plus spirit), and I don't think we are resurrected a soul.  2nd Adam is a life giving spirit, not a soul. 

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Is there scripture that says we will be resurrected an immortal soul???  Comparing satan to our resurrected state i don't think is a good comparison, satan never was resurrected, and I don't think satan is an immortal soul. 

I just struggle with concept of a carnal soul after the resurrection.  I don't think there is scripture to back it up.  If there is, please let me know.  thanks.     

To be carnally minded is death.  Are we resurrected into a state of death??? 

I see what you're saying. You make good points.
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orion77

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2006, 09:00:45 AM »

Hello Lightseeker,

The whole chapter of John 17 speaks of this oneness.  Here is a few of them:


(Joh 17:21)  that all may be one, as You are in Me, Father, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

(Joh 17:22)  And I have given them the glory which You have given Me, that they may be one, as We are One:

(Joh 17:23)  I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected in one; and that the world may know that You sent Me and loved them, even as You loved Me.


I believe it was chuckt who brought this chapter up in a past thread.  The greatest prayer ever.  That chapter is an awesome read.   8)

God bless,

Gary
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2006, 11:04:36 AM »

So what goes into the Lake of Fire??  Soul?? 

Spirit + (spiritual) body = (glorified immortal) soul, goes into the lake of fire.

Here is what i struggle with, Spirit (capitalized, meaning Holy Spirit) plus a spiritual body = glorified immortal soul goes into lof, but yet is carnal???  makes no sense to me.  a Carnal glorified immortal soul???

The carnal mind is death.  Is not the lof, the death of death???  so seems to me the carnal mind has to be in LOF

The bodies the sinners are resurrected in are immortal, that's what glorified means, I think. You can be immortally carnal, look at Satan.

I personally think that the soul  and carnal mind coexist together, and they only exist in the flesh (flesh plus spirit), and I don't think we are resurrected a soul.  2nd Adam is a life giving spirit, not a soul. 

1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Is there scripture that says we will be resurrected an immortal soul???  Comparing satan to our resurrected state i don't think is a good comparison, satan never was resurrected, and I don't think satan is an immortal soul. 

I just struggle with concept of a carnal soul after the resurrection.  I don't think there is scripture to back it up.  If there is, please let me know.  thanks.     

To be carnally minded is death.  Are we resurrected into a state of death??? 

You could argue that since a soul = spirit + (fleshy) body, that resurrected bodies are not living souls, because they are not composed of fleshy bodies, but spiritual bodies.

I don't know.

We're not spirits alone, though, we have spiritual bodies.

A few more questions i'm trying to sort out, related to spirit, soul, flesh; and body.  Something i've been thinking about and trying to understand is the raised spiritual body.  Do we each get our own spiritual body, or is there only one spiritual body, and we are a member of it??? 

Ephesians 1:22-23, "And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way."

1 Corinthians 12:27-28 also says, "Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
 
1Co 12:12  For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1Co 12:13  For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1Co 12:14  For the body is not one member, but many.

1Co 12:27  Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


So is their only one spiritual body, Christ, and we being a member of that body.  Or at a later time (at the resurrection), are we separated from the body of Christ, and given our own glorified body???

Eph 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
 
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:





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Lightseeker

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2006, 03:26:16 PM »

Hello Lightseeker,

The whole chapter of John 17 speaks of this oneness.  Here is a few of them:

(Joh 17:21)  that all may be one, as You are in Me, Father, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

(Joh 17:22)  And I have given them the glory which You have given Me, that they may be one, as We are One:

(Joh 17:23)  I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected in one; and that the world may know that You sent Me and loved them, even as You loved Me.

I see where you're coming from scripturally and see why you're saying it.  I guess it's still a little weak for me to embrace though.  Not saying it's wrong mind you, just not sure I see it that way and it isn't something to fuss over IMO.  Thanks for your scriptural response though bro.  ;D
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jennifer

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2006, 10:00:32 PM »

Rocky,
Regarding resurrection as an immortal soul, would these scriptures help clarify for you?:
1 Cor. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Cor. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
2 Tim. 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
Grace be with you,
Jennifer
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jerry

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2006, 02:37:45 PM »

What it seems that you are asking is can God kill the soul and spirit or can God destroy somone beyond bringing them back to concousness, I think he can if thats what he wants to do, He is God,He can do what He wants I supose,but His haveing the ability to destroy the soul forever does not mean that he wills to do that.What this verse says to me is fear God because of His great power,I dont think Jesus ment for us to go deep into the soul and spirit thing,but to me he is simply saying FEAR GOD! NOT MAN.somtimes we want the hidden knowedge so bad we miss the point the scipture is making,heres a way to say it if  someone comes to kill this fleshly body dont fear them.
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jerry

  • Guest
Re: Hm...
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2006, 07:20:59 PM »

I totaly missed the point here,which proves you should never post when noding off........Jerry
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