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Author Topic: suits  (Read 10696 times)

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dre91

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suits
« on: November 04, 2010, 07:58:01 PM »

where did the idea come from for christians to wear suits every sunday? why do jehovah's witnesses wear suits?
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Akira329

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Re: suits
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 11:34:56 PM »

Hey Dre91
These scriptures should point to why:
Luk 11:37  And as he spake, a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat.
Luk 11:38  And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed before dinner.
Luk 11:39  And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.


Mat 23:25  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26  Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.


Mat 15:17  Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18  But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19  For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Mat 15:20  These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Mat 23:28  Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
[/b]

As for where it came from, the same place that causes us to believe that our outward appearance makes us righteous
Hope these help
Antaiwan



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"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

G. Driggs

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Re: suits
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 01:24:58 AM »

Good Scriptures Antaiwan. Those Scriptures says it all. It's not how one looks, but what is on the inside that counts. No matter how one looks God knows the heart.

Peace,

G.Driggs
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markn902

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Re: suits
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 03:10:59 AM »

I would like to point out that John the Baptist was not what one would call well dressed  :D
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chav

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Re: suits
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 09:54:00 AM »

Hi
We used to subscribe to the unscriptural beliefs of 'having a spirit of excellence' or 'dress to impress' .My suit very rarely makes an appearance now apart from family weddings ,funerals etc.
Dave
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santikos

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Re: suits
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 11:25:11 AM »

"Contrary to popular opinion, medieval Christians had no common practice of dressing up for church because nice clothes were only afforded by the wealthy.  Prior to the industrial revolution, society was polarized into the “haves” (the landed aristocracy) and the “have-nots” (plebes, serfs, peasants), with a minimal merchant class in between.  Fine clothing was hand-made and far too expensive for common folk who maintained their living through subsistence farming.[1]  Common folks had only one or two sets of clothes, made of coarse, drab fabric. One set of clothes was for working in the field, thus getting dirty and tattered; the other was for going into town, and therefore was kept cleaner to avoid public revulsion.[2]  In other words, “dressing up” for anything was never an option for anyone but the wealthiest nobility.  In fact, social codes enforced by fines mandated that this class distinction be honored by individuals of every rank.[3]  Distinctions of dress have functioned to maintain social hierarchy since the beginning of civilization.

All of this changed with the invention of mass manufacturing and the development of urban society.  James Hargreaves invented the “spinning jenny” in 1764.[4]  As this and similar machines were reproduced, finer and more colorful clothing, created with more versatile fabrics, made a variety of clothes affordable for the masses.[5]  Industrialization and urbanization gave rise to the middle class socio-economic group, so that a new layer of society received an opportunity to emulate the envied aristocracy and distinguish themselves from the peasants.[6]  Common people began “dressing up” to social events of every kind to demonstrate their newly improved social status."

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onelovedread

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Re: suits
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 01:44:19 PM »

I respectfully see this from a different perspective. Too much emphasis on "Suits"(outward appearance) seems to me to go against Ray's teaching. In so many of his papers, he points point out that it is the SPIRITUAL and not the physical that is going to endure. Is God really looking at how one is dressed, or does he not look at a man's heart?
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: suits
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 02:16:51 PM »

We fought these generational wars in my early Christian life.  The older folks said they wanted to be respectful and worshipful in church, although I'm sure some (especially the ladies) liked to be just a bit more 'respectful and worshipful' than others.  The younger folks (and me) wanted to open up church to people regardless of their background or means.  We figured if we could get them in the doors, they'd have a chance at getting saved and not going to Hell. 

Those that dress up are doing so unto the Lord.  Or not.  Those that don't dress up are doing so unto the Lord.  Or not. 

As for me now?  What is this 'church' thing and why do I care what they wear to it? 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

jassy

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Re: suits
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 02:38:12 PM »

I still go to church cause I love the congregation and pastor to bits.
I wear my good jeans and good t shirts. And good shoes. Because thats all I have. Bad jeans and good jeans.  ;D

jassy
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markn902

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Re: suits
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2010, 05:33:15 PM »

As for me now?  What is this 'church' thing and why do I care what they wear to it? 

lol thats too funny. I wear what other people wear to places (church if someone insists on it) just as a matter of ...idk... I guess to fit in...out of respect? I dont go suit and tie to anything unless its work and my employer insists on it. If I remember right wasn't it the Pharisees who were all dressed up doing outward physical things? I try to be careful not to judge a book by its cover (or clothes)  :) key word there being "try"

The JWs of which I was raised as a child in were very much into suits and ties and to be honest when I realized I was free of the yoke of churchianity I was happy about not having to dress up and go do all these pretentious things. (and also watch football on Sunday without feeling guilty ha-ha)

The pope is pretty well dressed.... ::)
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Joel

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Re: suits
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2010, 02:29:32 AM »

James 2:1-8 Dear brothers, how can you claim that you belong to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, if you show favoritism to rich people and look down on poor people?
If a man comes into your church dressed in expensive clothes and with valuable gold rings on his fingers, and at the same moment another man comes in who is poor and dressed in threadbare clothes, and you make a lot of fuss over the rich man and give him the best seat in the house and say to the poor man, "You can stand over there if you like, or else sit on the floor"- well, judging a man by his wealth shows that you are guided by wrong motives.
 Listen to me, dear brothers: God has chosen poor people to be rich in faith, and the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs, for that is the gift God has promised to all those who love him.
 And yet, of the two strangers, you have despised the poor man. Don't you realize that it is usually the rich men who pick on you and drag you into court?
 And all to often they are the ones who laugh at Jesus Christ, Whose noble name you bear.
Yes indeed, it is good when you truly obey our Lord's command, "You must love and help your neighbors just as much as you love and take care of yourself. But you are breaking this law of our Lord's when you favor the rich and fawn over them; it is sin.
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cjwood

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Re: suits
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 01:58:36 AM »

i love that i can go before God in worship, even if i only am wearing my "birthday" suit.  :o   

claudia
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Beloved

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Re: suits
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2010, 02:10:16 AM »

Ray teaches that worship mean to obey.... What suit do you wear to do this?  We should be trying to do this always...so yes claudia to your birthday suit....He gave you that.

"Selah" this

(2Co 5:1)  For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

(2Co 5:2)  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

(2Co 5:3)  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

beloved


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Felix

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Re: suits
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2010, 07:30:23 PM »

One of the things that impressed me most about Rays teaching was:
"NOTHING PHYSICAL IS SPIRITUAL"
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Beloved

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Re: suits
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2010, 09:59:43 PM »

Yes felix this is right, .
To be naked...in the above scipture means that your body and whatever covers it is irrelevant. They are temporal. When we die to self and put on Christ We are warpped in the robes of his righteousness

(Isa 61:10)  I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

beloved
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mmijares

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Re: suits
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2010, 08:30:30 PM »

Appropriateness is the key.  It is not about feeling righteous because you dressed yourself with suits, etc.  It is what is appropriate.

In Babylonian church we used to dress our Saturday's or Sunday's best because it was appropriate and not because we felt more righteous or holy.  Did you?  Even Christ in one His parables talked about wearing appropriate dress.

In JW and in WCG, they wear suits because for them it is the appropriate dress.  Me, when I was in Pentecostal, I wore at least a formal dress because it was appropriate.

Now that we are out of this Babylonian Church's "standard", we should be careful not to judge others on what they think is right in their own church.  Hey, we were there before!
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Shawn Fainn

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Re: suits
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2010, 10:08:18 AM »

I'll stick with my 'holy' jeans
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Samson

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Re: suits
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2010, 11:14:51 AM »

"Contrary to popular opinion, medieval Christians had no common practice of dressing up for church because nice clothes were only afforded by the wealthy.  Prior to the industrial revolution, society was polarized into the “haves” (the landed aristocracy) and the “have-nots” (plebes, serfs, peasants), with a minimal merchant class in between.  Fine clothing was hand-made and far too expensive for common folk who maintained their living through subsistence farming.[1]  Common folks had only one or two sets of clothes, made of coarse, drab fabric. One set of clothes was for working in the field, thus getting dirty and tattered; the other was for going into town, and therefore was kept cleaner to avoid public revulsion.[2]  In other words, “dressing up” for anything was never an option for anyone but the wealthiest nobility.  In fact, social codes enforced by fines mandated that this class distinction be honored by individuals of every rank.[3]  Distinctions of dress have functioned to maintain social hierarchy since the beginning of civilization.

Hi Forum,

Firstly, I just wanted to say that I really appreciated the above Post of Santikos, it really drives home an important point, that many of these things are influenced by the Culture and the particular time in History and location as to a "dress code." In regards to the wearing of Suits, I have allot of experience in this area, mostly the "Religious" influence from My 20 years of being a JW. If directly presented with the Question of Whether or Not a member has to wear a Suit, they will say that You don't have to, because they know that they can't prove it with the Bible. It's a uniformity type thing with Them and another means of subtle control. This is often the case with Extremely Legalistic Denominations. Besides having Laws or Rules that could lead to Expulsion(Fornication, Adultery, accepting Blood transfusions, Interpreting anything different than Them, working in a factory that produces a component that will eventually be used in a weapon, being a Police Officer, Admittedly Celebrating any of the Worldly Holidays to any degree, joining a Political Party, occasionally purchasing a lottery ticket(considered a greedy person) and list continues; etc.

I remember going to Conventions in Philadelphia at Veterans Stadium wearing My nice dress slacks, shoes, nice shirt and Tie, then proceeding to take my Tie off(The Temperature was 95 and Humid) and told by certain ones that I should keep my Tie on. It didn't matter that I was nicely dressed, but I should wear my Tie. This experience was mentioned to illustrate that there are many Unofficial "Rules," that although don't warrant expulsion, certain ones, sometimes including the Elders will Nag and counsel You for these Unofficial Rules which include: No Beards, too much makeup and/or Jewelry, missing Meetings(even though you NEED to work extra hours for Family needs, joining a play or Sports team(if in High School), Choice of Movies, Television, Computer games, viewing Bible Sites like this one( ;D), Dating without a Chap perone(Adults will usually try to hide this from everyone and sneak their Dating until close to Marriage), etc, etc;  ::).

Spiritually speaking( the person of the Heart), Galatians. 5:22,23; could be Filthy and Carnal, with no Love, Mercy or Justice, but as long as an appearance of Righteousness is presented, you are accepted and in good standing. Reminds me of some of the Scriptures mentioned at Matthew Chapter 23. Admittedly, some of the dress requirements are related to presenting a Sales or Business image in the House to House Ministry, also so as to not stumble any Householder by Your appearance when presenting the message. Now, I'm not advocating that anyone dresses like a slob, but what's wrong with dressing with clean pants, a clean buttoned shirt with clean Non-Sneaker shoes, but excluding wearing a Tie and Dress Jacket. Not all Sales and Business Men do these days in all areas, although some do. Now, do you see the Legalism(It has to be Either one way(their way) or no way), but if I go to the Local Buffet and have five full plates of food, that's okay. That's the basic mindset with these types of Religions. We(The Legalistic Denomination) will ignore or look the other way regarding certain Sins, but chastise You for the Sins that We feel are important.

                                 Kind Regards, Samson.



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markn902

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Re: suits
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2010, 12:35:56 AM »

very well put samson  :) also a good point was given by mmijares not to judge the way a person is dressed good or bad (perspectively) or worse yet judging why they are dressed that way. Our brothers and sisters in Babylon are deceived and blind (for now) but so were we. a nice point indeed kudos to both of you ;)  
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daywalker

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Re: suits
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2010, 04:44:00 PM »

I would like to point out that John the Baptist was not what one would call well dressed  :D

Lol... apparently there are many churches that would've cast him out onto his buttocks...
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