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Author Topic: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?  (Read 7784 times)

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dave

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2010, 05:23:49 AM »

 My thoughts...on 6 ...man was created on the sixth day.
This was a happening, the fact that Jesus, the disciples, and His mother were at a wedding and things happened, makes it a happening.
The comleteness is the servants doing what they are asked, the pots being filled to the brim and that the best wine was kept for the last.
Peace and Love Through Jesus
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2010, 06:38:34 AM »

Dear Peace and Love Through Jesus,

We are counseled, taught and instructed to “Pay attention to the words.” L Ray Smith

Type the word six into e-sword and you get it no less than 190 times in the Scriptures!

We know that God’s words are Spirit and Truth. He speaks with us in symbols parables and metaphors.

Rightly or wrongly,  the symbolic meaning of the word six, is not expounded here in BT. I think it is safe to say that everything about God and every Word of God, is not disclosed to us yet.   Also there is no one anywhere, everywhere, any time, who has published everything there is to yet know about God.

Every one of us is at our own individual point of understanding God. It would be nice if we were all the same but we’re not.  Some are ahead of us and some behind us and that is applicable to ALL OF US.

To disarm contention, defuse inferiority complexes and the divisive spirit of comparison from gaining influence,  the BTF permits only that we share discussion around what has already been documented and expounded by Ray Smith. That’s not a small territory to begin with either! It is  a solid runway to the flight path into the vast Kingdom of Gods Spirit and Truth.

If you want to discuss things that are not published by Ray, then the PM lines accommodate that exchange, or email also may suffice. The purpose of the BTF is to clear the spiritual flightpath for takeoff and have no Lear Jets, Tom Cat F16’s or Cessna’s landing on the run way!

My regrets to both you and BTF and its valuable members and Moderators, that I may have inadvertently, given the clearance to land!    :( God works all things together for good. :)

Blessings
Arc
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Craig

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2010, 08:42:55 AM »

Quote
I will say that I had no intention of causing any out of order post. I see that I have crossed some boundries, I had no thoughts of having a "private interpretation" I apologize for my post.

Micah, no problem and nothing to apologize for.  Every once in a while a post gives a moderator pause to consider what is being discussed.  We realize the "No Teaching" rule is confusing and about as "clear as mud", how can any discussions not have some of our own "ideas" or "teaching" come through?  That said, Deb said it better than I...

Quote
Every one of us is at our own individual point of understanding God. It would be nice if we were all the same but we’re not.  Some are ahead of us and some behind us and that is applicable to ALL OF US.

To disarm contention, defuse inferiority complexes and the divisive spirit of comparison from gaining influence,  (or to allow possible false teaching, Craig) the BTF permits only that we share discussion around what has already been documented and expounded by Ray Smith. That’s not a small territory to begin with either!

Don't anyone be afraid to post, just try to keep the spirit of the no teaching rule in mind and if needed the moderators will sort it out.  But what if a member has been given new revelations?  I'm sorry, but the moderators are not here to make the judgment if it is of God, so in those instances we will step in. 

Craig
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mharrell08

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2010, 08:47:24 AM »

Dear Peace and Love Through Jesus,

We are counseled, taught and instructed to “Pay attention to the words.” L Ray Smith

Type the word six into e-sword and you get it no less than 190 times in the Scriptures!

We know that God’s words are Spirit and Truth. He speaks with us in symbols parables and metaphors.


Yes, but a spiritual match is not simply having the same word, number, object, etc. being used in a scripture. They have to be in accord with one another, as in speaking of the same truth. Here's two examples from scriptures using the word 'fire': http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12517.0.html

Finding the same word in e-sword is a good start, but then spiritual discernment is required to understand what is a spiritual match and what is simply the same word being used to show another perspective.



Marques
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Joel

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2010, 01:53:31 PM »

Hey Micah 7:9
I have no doubt that the numbers used in the Bible have a meaning when used in conjunction with the happening, or the historical account being described.
When I was young I knew of a man in my area that went around giving talks on Bible numbers, and how they are used in the scriptures and how they repeat. He also had a definition that he gave for each one. He would sale you a book for three dollars or so, ??? that you could buy and use in your own studies.
 I bought one at his shoe repair shop and read it through with great interest, it depends on who you are talking to as to what they say the number stands for.
As I heard a preacher that totally disagreed with him on the number 3, I believe it was.
I came across several books on the subject back at that time (1976) and one man went to court over plagiarism, concerning the subject.
It is a interesting subject when reading the Bible and when it gives a certain number, to check it out in other places where the same number is used. Like say the #40, Moses was 40 years as a Shepard before the burning bush, and the children of Israel were in the desert wilderness for 40 years also.
One is God, two is a wittiness, three is perfect, four is dispensations, five is grace, six is man, seven is completeness, eight is rebirth, nine is fruits of the Spirit, ten is Law, eleven is incompleteness, twelve is government.
He went on to give a definition for other numbers as well, are these all correct? I don't know, are they written in stone?

It is an interesting subject, and I think of that man sometimes, he said he was half Jew on his mothers side. He died in 93 I think.

Joel


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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2010, 04:49:23 PM »

It is good that we don't strive about words. To strive, produces envy, strife, railings and evil surmising.
 
It is more splendid to hold fast the form of sound words, which we have heard of Christ, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 8)

The Scriptures are in accord with one another. God doesn’t contradict Himself anywhere any time, ever!

Ray teaches quote : There is a spiritual match for every symbol in the book of Revelation.

There are no useless words in the Word of God. All words of God are Spirit and Truth and not one word of God contradicts.

Scriptures of prophesy, are not of any “private” interpretation. Strong’s Concordance translates private to mean pertaining to self, separate, apart or alone.  No Prophesy of God’s Word is alone. It is not to be taken apart, or used on its own, separated from other Scripture. Why? Because Prophesy is not of men but of the Holy Spirit!

Blessings,  as we all progress to correctly divide the word of God and come to know the Spirit of Christ.
Arc
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mharrell08

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2010, 05:14:30 PM »

It is good that we don't strive about words. To strive, produces envy, strife, railings and evil surmising.
 
It is more splendid to hold fast the form of sound words, which we have heard of Christ, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 8)

The Scriptures are in accord with one another. God doesn’t contradict Himself anywhere any time, ever!

No one has stated the scriptures are not in accord with one another. I stated that a spiritual match must be in accord or in agreement. I used the example of fire in scripture.

Jesus talking about judgment fire is not the same as the children of Israel sacrificing their children in fire. We can avoid "striving about words" by not putting words in each other's mouths.
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G. Driggs

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2010, 07:22:25 PM »

It's all worthless without love.

Rom 12:3  For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Rom 12:4  For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5  So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Rom 12:6  Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 12:7  Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Rom 12:8  Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Rom 12:9  Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Rom 12:10  Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
 
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of a part,
1Co 12:28 whom also God, indeed, placed in the ecclesia, first, apostles, second, prophets, third, teachers, thereupon powers, thereupon graces of healing, supports, pilotage, species of languages."
1Co 12:29 Not all are apostles. Not all are prophets. Not all are teachers. Not all have powers.
1Co 12:30 Not all have the graces of healing. Not all are speaking languages. Not all are interpreting.
1Co 12:31 Yet be zealous for the greater graces. And still I am showing you a path, suited to transcendence.
1Co 13:1 If I should be speaking in the languages of men and of the messengers, yet should have no love, I have become resounding copper or a clanging cymbal."
1Co 13:2 And if I should have prophecy and should be perceiving all secrets and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so as to transport mountains, yet have no love, I am nothing."

Col 3:12 Put on, then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, pitiful compassions, kindness, humility, meekness, patience,
Col 3:13 bearing with one another and dealing graciously among yourselves, if anyone should be having a complaint against any. According as the Lord also deals graciously with you, thus also you.
Col 3:14 Now over all these put on love, which is the tie of maturity."
Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ be arbitrating in your hearts, for which you were called also in one body; and become thankful."
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ be making its home in you richly, in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing yourselves; in psalms, in hymns, in spiritual songs, singing, with grace in your hearts to God."


Whether or not these Scriptures witness each other I do not know for sure, but it sure seems like it according to what little grace God has given me.

So please I respectfully ask, let it all be for the sake of Love.

Peace to all

G.Driggs
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 07:31:19 PM by G. Driggs »
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judith collier

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2010, 05:12:40 AM »

John from Kentucky, I hear you about the mother and son quips. My son gets irritated with me too.
But about Mary, the mother, I found it surprising (never saw it before) Mary obviously knew Jesus was going to begin a ministry or wouldn't she have said, "what"?
And as far as a sharp reply, let me tell you. People of a few generations ago and some today still give blunt responses. I used to be offended by these seemingly sharp answers but finally realized not everyone is a company relationship manager.  Jesus most likely had more important things on His mind. And if His mother knew about his upcoming ministry perhaps He was taken aback that she would interfere with the timing of it all.
Just a thought. judy
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2010, 06:49:00 AM »

Hi G.Driggs

Those Scriptures are beautiful brother. 

Judy, you noted something wonderfully inspiring! 8)

Nothing surprises God, and He can marvel at us!

Blessings of His marvelous Spirit as He works all to good in accord to the Council of His Will.
Arc
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Nan

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2010, 12:23:50 PM »

Judy and John,
My grown children don't want to hear what I have to say, either and I have a much better relationship with them now that I keep my opinions to myself. Although it is hard sometimes - kinda like watching a train wreck.
I also, with my carnal mind wondered (past tense) about some of Jesus' sayings. In addition to the one discussed here, let the dead bury the dead and His brothers and mother were those who follow and obey Me(paraphrase).
I was afraid to join the forum for years because I wasn't sure I understood teh rules.
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daywalker

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2010, 09:21:46 PM »

Does Ray have any work  to read on Jesus' first sign? Or any paper on John 2?


None that I can recall, perhaps another member can find an excerpt.

I was still waiting your response as to what you thought the spiritual significance of Jesus' response regarding the wine...

I understand the number six is the number of man, and is for Adam/man. The pots were for washings/purifying (law) which had 2 or  3 firkins; 2 is the number of witness and 3 is the number of completness. There was a happening (witness)and there would be a completness, yet with  partial understanding.
Jesus said fill the water pots with water and they filled them to the brim, here we have complete filling to the brim which  represents a complete work, but the washing of the water(law) was past and a  new washing was presenting Himself. The wine, the best wine was now offered to the Governor (leader/religion) and represents the cleansing power of the Blood of Jesus. The washing water is changed to wine(blood)  the cleansing power of the Blood of the Lamb. The cleansing and regeneration, the renewing for the new man.




Not intending to start/continue a numerology debate, but from what I have learned from the Scriptures (and I believe Ray teaches this too), the number for completeness would be 7, not 3.


Gen 2:2 And finishing is the Elohim, on the sixth day, His work which He does. And ceasing is He on the seventh day from all His work which He does. The Creation period was now complete.

Exo 21:2 When you buy a Hebrew servant, six years shall he serve you, and in the seventh he shall go forth free gratuitously. The servant has completed his time.

Lev 25:3 Six years shall you sow your field, and six years shall you prune your vineyard and gather its yield.
4 Yet in the seventh year there shall be a sabbath of cessation for the land, a sabbath to Yahweh. Your field you shall not sow, and your vineyard you shall not prune;"


Rev 1:19 Write then, what you perceived, and what they are, and what is about to be occurring after these things:"
Rev 1:20 the secret of the seven stars which you perceived in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands. The seven stars are messengers of the seven ecclesias, and the seven lampstands are seven ecclesias."
As Ray teaches in his Lake of Fire, this speaks of the WHOLE Ecclesia of God, not just the 7 in Asia.

Rev 3:1 And to the messenger of the ecclesia in Sardis write: 'Now this He is saying Who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars: '"I am aware of your acts, that you have a name that you are living, and are dead." Representing THE Spirit of God. (Obviously, God doesn't "have" 7 spirits, seeing that He "IS Spirit" John 4:24)


Perhaps the number 3 may have something to do with judgment or penalty:

Jon 1:17 And Yahweh is assigning a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah is coming to be in the bowels of the fish three days and three nights. His penalty for disobeying God.

Mat 12:39 Yet He, answering, said to them, "A generation, wicked and an adulteress, for a sign is seeking, and a sign will not be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet."
40 For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights."
Paying the penalty for our sins.


...But I am no expert in biblical numerology.  ;) Hope this helps.

Christopher  8)
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dave

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2010, 11:05:13 PM »

I have read that 3 and 7 were both a number of completeness, still you make a good point. One of the reasons I have felt that 3 was a number of completeness, 1) out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses, 2) was the teaching that man is made up of body, soul, and spirit, which I no longer believe. Man is made up of body and breath and IS a living soul, showing that man does not have a soul, again man is a soul. So I can see you point about 3. Thanks.
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Ricky

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2010, 09:05:03 AM »

I had heard many years ago that God made life and everything in it by the #3, water has 3 elements to it, air has 3, and so on. Has anyone heard of this.
     Ricky
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2010, 11:32:17 AM »

Hi Joel ~

The man who concluded  that the meaning of the number three, is quote “perfect” might have been influenced by our dependence on  the Scriptures to ferret out the truth that we believe only the Word of God can qualify. We cannot ask him how he arrived at three meaning PERFECT, because as you say, he has since died.

Perhaps it is closer to the truth to say that three more fittingly refers to a section, chapter, segment, division or part, which is total?

I hope you can see that, we mean no disrespect or offense to the man you knew who gave talks on Bible numbers. God saw fit to bring before us berens to study, discuss, measure and evaluate in open desire for edification, exercised discernment and blessing to apply what Ray teaches that we all pay more attention to the words!

I have one regret. I believe that the man you once knew as a youngster, who found great passion to study the meanings of numbers, was not with us in the PM lines, to discuss his passion in relation to Biblical standards.

I believe he might  have been delighted to study with us and he certainly would have been most welcome!

Blessings
Arc
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mharrell08

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Re: Jo.2:4 Is there a disrespect?
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2010, 11:48:04 AM »

I think this subject has run its course.

Let us try to keep General Discussions based on what we have learned from Ray's teachings. It leads to less confusion and strife.
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