Surprised, but not entirely sure I should be...

[cjwood]

...The thing is that most Christians have been learning what they believe since childhood in the church. They have built their false beliefs brick upon brick into a huge building of fallacy...

... Feels like I've been banging my head against a brick wall for awhile now

hudson, perhaps you have been banging your head against that brick upon brick wall that kat mentioned in her post.  i have learned and relearned many things from this thread.  our witness is indeed how we live our life. studying, learning, and applying.  the obedience/application required to be a true witness is the hardest part sometimes.  for me at least.  but, asking my Father to change my heart and cause me to become a solid witness of His gospel; to overcome this putrid carnal flesh and its' disgusting suggestions, and to live according to the Image of Christ, has become my daily outcry.  

claudia

[Dave in Tenn]

I'm loathe to slink way from this thread with the feeling that there is "nothing I can do", even if I know I'm not called to be a teacher.  God used Ray Smith and B-T on me.

Ray calls himself a teacher--and IS a teacher. He defines it very simply without any psuedo-spiritual mumbo jumbo.  A teacher is somebody from whom people learn.  Ray 'taught', I learned, and continue to.  He is 'my teacher'.  

If that definition is the case, then there are teachers of Truth, there are false teachers, and there are non-teachers (those who may attempt to teach but are unable or not blessed with 'results' which disqualifies them from the legitimate 'title'; or those who may not attempt to teach at all).  The standards for a teacher of Truth are quite high and anyone who follows that leading is held to those higher standards.  The scriptural admonition is to let there not be too many teachers.  Yet some are called...not too many.

It seems to me the major warning Ray is giving is that we know what to expect when we try to 'convert' our former pastors, or family and friends, or spouses and children.  It's an evil thing to be rejected--an evil that the Lord Jesus endured infinitely greater than any of us.  It's an experience of evil given to us whereby to humble us, like all evil experiences are.  We may be full of zeal, but not wisdom (like Peter in the Garden with the sword).  We may be full of ourselves in many ways that "failures" cure us of.

We can't 'preach' a Gospel of a Sovereign, loving God who calls many and chooses few if we're not speaking out of Love and accepting His will.

Few should be teachers.  I've known that since forever was new.  A week or two on facebook was a humbling reminder.  Some don't have it very right, and others have nothing to 'teach' at all.  But that doesn't mean we can't do something to be part of the 'sent' so that preaching, hearing, and believing can happen according to the Will of God, just as it did/does for us.

     

[Shawn Fainn]

You do?

I don't.  

Not any more anyway.gk

No offense taken, brother. But I think you overlooked what I was trying to get across.

It is Now that you understand the things you do.. It wasn't that way when you first learned the Truth. At first, you did try to share with others.

That's all I'm saying. It seems to be a common pattern/process that many here go through, and we all know God is in control..

God bless

[Shawn Fainn]

hudson, perhaps you have been banging your head against that brick upon brick wall that kat mentioned in her post.  i have learned and relearned many things from this thread.  our witness is indeed how we live our life. studying, learning, and applying.  the obedience/application required to be a true witness is the hardest part sometimes.  for me at least.  but, asking my Father to change my heart and cause me to become a solid witness of His gospel; to overcome this putrid carnal flesh and its' disgusting suggestions, and to live according to the Image of Christ, has become my daily outcry.  

claudia

Indeed. My head is still hurting too..

Lesson learned!

[santikos]

moxi,
   it is great to hear that God is doing this in your life. Hopefully your husband is called of to learn these truths. My wife at first did not really want to hear that there is no hell, she used she same arguments she learned in church. So i just bit my tongue, she saw me studying alot and began to ask questions. Also i would hear someone say something and i will lovingly critique it, she began to see things a little different. After some time i began to hear her talk of God's love, then she said " i believe there is no hell". i was pretty happy with that. but as the rest of our family here at BT, we just have to live the life he wants us and love others. It is not our job to save the world. remember Jesus said " it is finished" why would i want to add to that.
    The hardest thing for me is not haveing a person to fellowship with in person. but i come here and find refuge among our family. God Bless

[GaryK]

You do?

I don't.  

Not any more anyway.gk

No offense taken, brother. But I think you overlooked what I was trying to get across.

At first, you did try to share with others.

That's all I'm saying. God bless

Point taken as true Hudson.   We feel a good high when first coming to read Ray's teachings.    Certain wrong teachings and beliefs are exposed for what they are, we're relieved in a strong sense, and we want to share the 'good news'.   But, not only are some of our friends/relatives not ready for that news....the good news exactly as it has been taught for years is a comfortable zone and they prefer no fuss......but neither are we ready, in the sense of instruction, to teach no matter how qualified and word proficient we may think we are or have been in the past.  I've had only 2 occasions where I've had a real opportunity to share.  Both were good friends and both were/are church going folk.  They wondered at my loss of enthusiasm for conversation.  I let them ask, they did, and I told them.  I didn't run off at the mouth, but, I let them know Christ is not limited as once believed.  They recognized a twinkle in my eye but I wasn't qualified to speak on the matter and wish I hadn't done so.  It is what it is.  I was not amazed at the depth of their comfort zone, I'd seen it before, but I was amazed at their energy for argument.  I was a turn off to them and they were a turn off to me.  We don't talk 'religion' nowadays. 

Dave said it good enough: 

"We may be full of zeal, but not wisdom"

gk

[Shawn Fainn]

Dave said it good enough:  

"We may be full of zeal, but not wisdom"

gk[/color]

Very true.

Seems like God has been using that zeal to bring about wisdom for me. Trial by fire, I suppose..

[Foxx]

I started reading Ray's teachings in June or so of this year and I too have become so blessed with the knowledge that something inside me (the Holy Spirit no doubt) had been telling me all along. The tugging of something that didn't seem right about an all-loving god that would send people to hell forever? No sir, I always struggled with that concept no matter how I tried to rationalize it when discussing it with people who were not Christian.

In regards to how I personally "deal with it" as you said. I try not to make it a point to argue but when people ask me how my relationship with God is I tell them it is the best it has ever been! They naturally want to know why, what has changed, etc.  So the discussions begin, many are content with listening and pondering what I've said, taking it with a grain of salt and some are, as we have seen in many emails to Ray, are in full disagreement.  Essentially, I want to tell people about all of this and I am always happy to discuss it eagerly because it makes me so excited to know for a fact that our God is going to save everyone.  That makes me happier than words can describe! Although, I have learned to notice when is a good time to discuss it and when is not. There are opportunities that come up but I have opted not to on several occasions just because it wouldn't do any good at that point.

I would say try to have wisdom of when and when not to discuss these things. Someone who doesn't want to learn will not listen no matter what you tell them. So just try to discern as best as possible I suppose would be the best advice I can give. There are those who are genuinely interested in at least hearing what you have to say and others have already made up their minds before you started speaking to explain something, ha! At any rate, God bless you on this journey of learning!

[judith collier]

Gee, now I know what to thank God for concerning my husband!!! He's a pagan and I don't have to argue or anything.
He had to be baptized when we got married and attended church at times but the going got too rough in life and he blames God for not helping him and yet says he doesn't believe in God. I know from here it is not his fault because no one can come to God unless he calls but his ungratefulness is his undoing and not God's fault. Negativity is just a lack of confidence in a subject or himself. I just think it is hard ingrained unforgiving hate that makes an atheist but for fairness my husband has endured two very hard blows and without God's concious help it is only natural. I just don't understand why my prayers all these yrs. for his salvation have gone unanswered. I do know that God has his reasons but i just wish sometimes God would be as merciful to him as he was to me, spiritually.
judy

[daywalker]

Gee, now I know what to thank God for concerning my husband!!! He's a pagan and I don't have to argue or anything.
He had to be baptized when we got married and attended church at times but the going got too rough in life and he blames God for not helping him and yet says he doesn't believe in God. I know from here it is not his fault because no one can come to God unless he calls but his ungratefulness is his undoing and not God's fault. Negativity is just a lack of confidence in a subject or himself. I just think it is hard ingrained unforgiving hate that makes an atheist but for fairness my husband has endured two very hard blows and without God's concious help it is only natural. I just don't understand why my prayers all these yrs. for his salvation have gone unanswered. I do know that God has his reasons but i just wish sometimes God would be as merciful to him as he was to me, spiritually.
judy

Yet the good news is you know one day He will answer them, and your husband will be saved. (it's just frustrating for us cause we don't know when...)