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Author Topic: When is the meaning God intended “literal physical” or “Spiritual Metaphorical”?  (Read 4770 times)

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Ed J

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Hi Everyone,

I don’t see a lot of Theology being discussed here.
I ask this question not out of ignorance (mind you),
but merely as a topic of discussion among believers.

How do we determine when the Biblical meaning God
intended is “literal physical” or “Spiritual Metaphorical”?

God bless
Ed J
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 04:29:09 AM by Ed J »
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Deborah-Leigh

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We determin such matters in accord to His Voice, leading, guiding, directing and edifying us through His Word, within. :) His Word is His Spirit. The sum of His Word is Truth. Our Lord and King is both Spirit and Truth. There is no schism.

Blessings
Arc
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Dave in Tenn

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Ultimately, ALL scripture is Spiritually discerned.  

There are a lot of figures of speech in scripture.  Metaphors are but one type.  Of course figures of speech in language are not 'intended' to be taken literally.  It's surprising how much scripture cannot be taken 'literally', despite many religionists insistence that the Bible is the 'literal' Word of God.  That doesn't stop people from taking them literally in Scripture, nor does it change the intention of God to hide the meaning of scripture from the 'many' in using so many figures of speech.

I don't think metaphors, similies, parables, symbolisms, etc have the same meaning as "Spiritual".  Scripture tells us that it is the Spiritual which is real, and will last.  The physical is going to pass away, if it isn't already.

I don't think there is a word or concept in Scripture that hasn't been corrupted by religion.  Maybe that's why you don't see much theology discussed here.    
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Ed J

  • Guest


We determin such matters in accord to His Voice, leading, guiding, directing and edifying us through His Word, within. :) His Word is His Spirit. The sum of His Word is Truth. Our Lord and King is both Spirit and Truth. There is no schism.

Blessings
Arc
Hi Arcturus,

Thank you, and I agree fully with your response!

God bless
Ed J


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Ed J

  • Guest

Ultimately, ALL scripture is Spiritually discerned.  

There are a lot of figures of speech in scripture.  Metaphors are but one type.  Of course figures of speech in language are not 'intended' to be taken literally.  It's surprising how much scripture cannot be taken 'literally', despite many religionists insistence that the Bible is the 'literal' Word of God.  That doesn't stop people from taking them literally in Scripture, nor does it change the intention of God to hide the meaning of scripture from the 'many' in using so many figures of speech.

I don't think metaphors, similies, parables, symbolisms, etc have the same meaning as "Spiritual".  Scripture tells us that it is the Spiritual which is real, and will last.  The physical is going to pass away, if it isn't already.

I don't think there is a word or concept in Scripture that hasn't been corrupted by religion.  Maybe that's why you don't see much theology discussed here.    
Hi Dave in Tenn,

I don't understand your last sentence here?
Could you expound on this idea?

God bless
Ed J

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mharrell08

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How do we determine when the Biblical meaning God
intended is “literal physical” or “Spiritual Metaphorical”?


Hello Ed J and welcome to the forum.

Here's an excerpt from Ray's 12 Truths to Understanding God's Word (http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm):

TRUTH NUMBER 5

[A] "It is the spirit that quickens [gives life]; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are life" (John 6:63).

[ B ] "But this spoke He of the SPIRIT…" (John 7:39).

[C] "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the SPIRIT which IS the word of God" ( Eph. 6:17).

Everything from Genesis to Revelation pertains to a higher SPIRITUAL meaning than the physical examples, parables, metaphors, allegories, stories and symbols in which they are written. "Let us make man in Our Image" (Gen. 1:26) are words of SPIRIT: "…Surely I come quickly…" (Rev. 22:20) are words of SPIRIT. God does not look like a six-foot man or a five-foot woman. Jesus comes quickly to us, not to the world.


God's words are spirit so they always have a spiritual meaning. It is the spirit that give life, that which is literal/physical passes away.



Hope this helps,

Marques
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Ed J

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Hi M Harrell08,

As I said before:   ..."I don’t see a lot of Theology being discussed here."
It certainly does help keep "The Truth" of this topic going!
In this thread: WE are discussing "Theology"!

Your brother in
Christ, Jesus!
Ed J   
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Deborah-Leigh

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We determin such matters in accord to His Voice, leading, guiding, directing and edifying us through His Word, within. :) His Word is His Spirit. The sum of His Word is Truth. Our Lord and King is both Spirit and Truth. There is no schism.

Blessings
Arc
Hi Arcturus,

Thank you, and I agree fully with your response!

God bless
Ed J




Thank YOU Ed J, for bolding those words in the reply inspired to you.
 
Blessings brother
Deb





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Kat

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Hi Ed,

1Co 15:46  But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual.

While we are in the church we read the physical/literal stories of the Bible and believe that these really did happen and are history. So we have come to know the literal application of the Scriptures first while we are yet blind and the church has not come past this point yet. But I think that is an important step in our learning process. Though our house built on sand must fall, we still have gained this physical information and now we begin to build our new spiritual house on the Rock/Jesus Christ. I think having the physical knowledge of the Bible is pretty essential to have and use as a backdrop from which to build the spiritual on. I see it as actually a process of growing away from the physical/literal, that is just a backdrop, now we move towards a deeper and deeper spiritual understanding and connection to God.

It's like John the Baptist said, "He must increase, but I must decrease" (John 3:30). The physical becomes less and less significant, it dissolves and passes away. While the spiritual takes on a majorly important part of our thinking and how we speak and act.

2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
v. 11  Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
v. 12  looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
v. 13  Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Ed J

  • Guest

Hi Kat,

Excellent input!
Thanks so much for adding to our discussion!
The guest readers should certainly have an abundance in this thread! (1Cor:14:24-25)

God bless 
Ed J   


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Samson

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Hi Ed,

I don’t see a lot of Theology being discussed here.

In regards to Your above statement, I don't know exactly what you intended, but if You mean Bible related Topics accompanied by the Scriptures that pertain to these Topics, I will give You some examples from past Threads by listing the Topic and the Date of the Threads. You can if You so desire, do some Historical research by going backwards to examine these Threads. With that said, We are not allowed to bring " A Teaching" of Our own Origin or from another Site that Contradicts Ray's Teachings. That's part of the Forum rules that We agreed upon when joining this Forum. That doesn't mean that individuals can't believe other Teachings and Understandings that don't originate from here, but We aren't supposed to Post them here. None of what I mentioned in the above paragraph is meant to offend You, just for clarification. Please Read below some examples of prior Threads(Possibly the Theological Discussions) you allude to.

1) Soul, Body & Spirit; 2) 12 Truths to Understanding Gods Word, in Four parts By Marques(11/5/10 to 12/5/10); 3) Greek words Defined & Usage By Samson(5/24/10 to 7/24/10); 4) Free Will(Too many times to list locations); 4) Holidays & Birthdays(Often throughout the years, please don't ask,  ;D); 5) Repentance(numerous times, 9/5/10); 6) Angels, Messengers, Demons; 7) Christ Created, Begotten, Firstborn, etc; 8) Differentiating between the Physical & The spiritual; 9) Porneia(Homosexuality, Pre-Marital sex, Abuse towards Spouse, Adultery, etc.); 10) Physical Rituals(Water Baptism, Lords Supper, Circumcision,); 11) Stauros(Cross, Pole, upright beam, Tree-xylon); 12) Satan(literal Spirit Being, Carnal Self); 13) Aion & it's derivatives, Aions, Aionios, Aionian, Olam-Hebrew).

Ed, the above is just a sample, also check the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS BOARD(FAQ) located above introductions. Go to General Discussions and click on a previous number, as an example 20 and work Your way forward and you will see previous threads. The examples I listed above were discussed many times throughout the years.

                            Hope this Helps & welcome to the Forum, Samson.

P.S. I noticed that you mention: " We are discussing Theology" in a further Post you made, but I thought it would help You realize that many, many topics have been discussed many times in various titles and Forms since 2006.
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Dave in Tenn

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Maybe it's my aversion to theology that makes me want to call what we do here something else...anything else.   :D

The 'theology' I have in mind is the one I'm familiar with from churchianity.  Give a man a few theological choices to make (none of which are true in the first place).  Argue endlessly over concepts when the words are undefined, wrongly defined, or just simply have competing definitions not agreed upon. 

Anyway...don't get hung up on my 'definition'.  That's just what I think.       
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

octoberose

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 HI Ed,
 My husband has a Masters Degree in Theology. I love him and know of his journey and struggles, and the good he's tired to do.  But, Ed, all that means is he went to a Graduate School of Religion and learned what they had to teach him and came away with his credentials. But,  he's just now hearing a lot of Truths and he's hearing them from me and I learn them here! All Theology means is the "Study of God" - theos =  God, ology = study.  We study God here every day. We study him because we Love Him and listen to 2 Timothy 2:15, "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."  Christendom has not been handling the Word of Truth with truth, and it  certainly does not know of the PURE JOY it is when the study of God loosens the bonds of the slavery and we finally see the goodness and graciousness of our Creator.
 God bless you (and all of us) as you study and knock on doors and enter in!
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GaryK

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Hi Everyone,

I don’t see a lot of Theology being discussed here.[/color]

I ask this question not out of ignorance (mind you),
but merely as a topic of discussion among believers.

How do we determine when the Biblical meaning God
intended is “literal physical” or “Spiritual Metaphorical”?

God bless
Ed J



Hi Ed.

My guess is everyone here at BT was pretty hip on 'theology'....pre-BT that is, just wore out its welcome I believe.     Ray talks about 'theology' all the time, sure does, pretty much peppered in every single paper he's published.   Of course, the 'discussion' part of 'theology' is short lived  ;)

Here's a good example.

"Only theologians believe that vessels of "dishonor" malfunction, when in reality they were designed by their Creator for the very PURPOSE of malfunctioning. A malfunctioning, carnal-minded, God-hating, immoral, human slob, is of great value to God. Paul was just such a person before God called him out of Babylon the Great. And now, PAUL IS GREAT! Marvel of marvels, the things that God can do with dung."

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html


Yep, that's us.   Well okay, maybe not others here but that particular shoe fits me for sure.   ;D

gk


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lilitalienboi16

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Hi Everyone,

I don’t see a lot of Theology being discussed here.[/color]

I ask this question not out of ignorance (mind you),
but merely as a topic of discussion among believers.

How do we determine when the Biblical meaning God
intended is “literal physical” or “Spiritual Metaphorical”?

God bless
Ed J



Hi Ed.

My guess is everyone here at BT was pretty hip on 'theology'....pre-BT that is, just wore out its welcome I believe.     Ray talks about 'theology' all the time, sure does, pretty much peppered in every single paper he's published.   Of course, the 'discussion' part of 'theology' is short lived  ;)

Here's a good example.

"Only theologians believe that vessels of "dishonor" malfunction, when in reality they were designed by their Creator for the very PURPOSE of malfunctioning. A malfunctioning, carnal-minded, God-hating, immoral, human slob, is of great value to God. Paul was just such a person before God called him out of Babylon the Great. And now, PAUL IS GREAT! Marvel of marvels, the things that God can do with dung."

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html


Yep, that's us.   Well okay, maybe not others here but that particular shoe fits me for sure.   ;D

gk




LOL! Hey, that fits me too! Definitely the last part, although probably a little stinkier xD

<3
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

cjwood

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that shoe fits me too and it definitely has dung all over the bottom of it!

claudia
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