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[Samson]

Hi Forum,

I would like to take this opportunity to start a Thread regarding the Hope of the Resurrection. We learn many important Truths from Ray's Teachings and this Forum. Many might say that God's Total Sovereignty or the fact that Man does not possess "Free Will" are at the top of the priority list. Who could argue that, I won't attempt to. Personally, the Hope of eventually receiving a Resurrection from the Dead is of most importance in my view. Without a Resurrection or an eventual hope of receiving one, We would be dead without conscious thought and without existence. So, this Thread will  provide Scriptural examples of those who were Resurrected, (of course these individuals eventually died again), incorporate some comments from Ray's Email answers and Articles. Also Scriptures that discuss the Resurrection will be mentioned too.  Resurrection comes from the Greek Word Anastasia meaning " to stand up or stand again."

Some Scriptural Examples of those who received Resurrections.

1) Jairus 12 year old Daughter(Luke. 8:41,42,49,50-55) Resurrected By Jesus
2) The Widow of Nain's Son (Luke. 7:11-15) Resurrected By Jesus
3) Lazarus( John. 11:42-44) Resurrected By Jesus
4) Eutychus (Acts. 20:9,10) Resurrected By Paul
5) Dorcas(Tabitha) (Acts. 9:39-42) Resurrected By Peter
6) The Saints mentioned at Matthew. 27:52-54 Resurrected By God the Father
7) The Son of a Shunammite Woman (2Kings. 4:32-36) Resurrected By Elisha
Widow of Zarephath's Son (1Kings. 17:18-24) Resurrected By Elijah
9) Jesus (Acts. 2:31-33; Acts. 2:23,24) Resurrected By God the Father

Some Comments Jesus made about the Resurrection !

John. 11:25,26" I am the Resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." Verse 26 is usually mistranslated as follows: " And whoever lives and believes in Me, shall NEVER die. Do you believe this."(NKJV) From My Greek Interlinear, verse 26 is rendered as follows before the sentence is constructed properly in English: " And Everyone the living and believing into me, not not should die into the Age are believing you this." The Concordant Literal Translation renders this verse properly as follows:26 And everyone who is living and believing in Me, should by no means be dying for the eon. Are you believing this?"

Paul expressed the importance of the Resurrection By saying that His preaching was in Vain and He should be pitied for preaching about anything if there was no hope of ever receiving a Resurrection; 1Cor. 15:12-19. Christ was the first Resurrected from the dead, eventually the Firstfruits(God's Chosen Elect) at His Coming or Return; 1Cor. 15:20-23. God's Chosen Elect or First fruits will receive a spiritual Resurrection with the ability to manifest themselves in the flesh; 1Cor. 15:35-54. Read Email response of Ray below in blue for support.

From 6/28/08 Resurrection: 1.  It is agreed that the believer/saint of God will resurrect with spiritual or glorified bodies if this are the same to reign with Christ. Now is Christ reigning physically as a person on this earth?

COMMENT:  First, Jesus IS "a person." Who would He reign as a non-person? What is a "non-person?"  Christ will reign spiritually, but that spiritual reign has many physical manifestations.  Was Jehovah a  "physical" God over Israel? It is difficult to even know what you mean by such a phrase. God is not physical, but He can and does interact with physical people. And yes, it will be on this "earth," not on some other world or plant or heavenly realm.

 if yes then are the resurrected saint reigning with Him in spiritual bodies while He reign physically? this is confusing. Pls shed more light scripturally.If this lake of fire is spiritual, then I agree that the torment will be for ever. What is your stake on this?.

COMMENT:  I'm sorry, but I just don't get that? Do you mean while Christ is "reigning physically with a spiritual body?" or "reigning physically with a physical body?"  When Jesus was resurrected "SPIRITUALLY," He still had the power to manifest Himself in several DIFFERENT forms or bodies--the stranger walking with the two men to Emmaus, the gardener, the stranger on the shore, and as His old physical self with holes in His body.

Apparently God's Servants will be able to physically manifest themselves so that they can be SEEN:

Isa 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall SEE thy teachers:

And on other occasions they will NOT be seen:

Isa 30:21 And thine ears shall HEAR a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

From 7/23/07 Two Resurrections: Dear Angelica:

        There are not two resurrection for the same person, but rather two classes of people who are resurrected, and the Elect are said to be in the "first" or "former" resurrection.  "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST [or former] resurrection" (Rev. 20:5). Now this is some question as to whether this verse is really Scripture or whether it was added to the manuscript. We still have conformation of two classes of people resurrected from other Scriptures:

        "...that there shall be a resurrection of the [1] JUST, and [2] UNJUST" (Acts. 24:15).

        "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, [1] some to everlasting [eonian] life, and [2] some to shame and everlasting [eonian] contempt" (Dan. 12:2).

        "And shall come forth; they that have done good unto [1] the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto [2] the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29).

        Hope this helps your understanding.

        God be with you,

        Ray


So, as mentioned by Ray in the above Emails, Jesus and The Chosen Elect are raised spiritually, but will be able to manifest themselves in the physical in order to be seen by everyone else(Wicked, unbelievers, etc) that's Resurrected. Ray indicates that everyone else will be resurrected in a physical body that's not Immortal or deathless(Greek-Athanasia). Read excerpts from His article: Physical or Spiritual Resurrection Bodies for wicked & Unbelievers below.

The major prophecy concerning the resurrection is found in Ezek. 37. Here we are shown a valley of “dry bones” which God says represents “the WHOLE House of Israel” -- “And He said unto me, `Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; lo, they are saying: Dried up have our bones, And perished has our hope, We have been cut off by ourselves” (Ezek. 37:11).

So the whole House of Israel dies in a condition of being “perished” with no “hope,” and are “cut off.”  But what does God tell Ezekiel He will do for them?

I am prophesying, and lo, a rushing, and draw near do the bones, bone unto its bone."

Eze 37:8  “And I beheld, and lo, on them [are] sinews [tendons, strength, muscular power], and flesh [muscles, fat, etc.]  has come up, and cover them does skin [the outer covering of a physical body] over above--and spirit there is none in them."

I know of no “spiritual” tendons, muscles, fat or skin, that are put on physical “bones” to remake a “spiritual” man.  This is a PHYSICAL resurrection of the dead, Eze 37:10 “And I have prophesied as He commanded me, and the Spirit comes into them, and they live, and stand on their feet--a very very great force” (Ezek. 37:10).

Notice that it takes the spirit from God to give these dried bones life once more. They then “stand on their feet.” This is the exact and precise definition of the word “resurrection.” It means to “stand up” upon one’s feet, but the word itself has nothing to do with being “spiritual” or “immortal” whatsoever.  Jesus raised a little girl and Lazarus from the dead, and they stood up on their feet and lived—they were not made spiritual bodies or given immortality. Likewise those saints resurrected at Christ’s resurrection, were not given spiritual bodies or immortality.

Nowhere are the wicked promised immortality or incorruption, nowhere.

1Co 15:50  “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

Chapter 15 is speaking of the true Elect Saints of God “inheriting the Kingdom of God.  Is the act of raising the wicked from the dead and act of their “inheriting the Kingdom of God?” I think not.  Will the wicked then “inherit incorruption” at their resurrection?  Well many say “YES, yes they will.”  NO, no they WON’T!  Are men like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler and Saddam Hussein, who are among the most “corruptible” men who have ever lived, going to be given bodies that are “incorruptible?”   Do the Scriptures lie when they tell us that “corruption” (as in the above named persons) does NOT “inherit incorruption?”

Should Mao, Adolph, and Saddam be resurrected to incorruptible and immortal bodies, then death would also be “swallowed up in victory” in THEIR LIVES ALSO.  How could they go through the “second DEATH” if “death” would have already been “swallowed up in VICTORY” in their miserable, wicked, vile, and deranged carnal minds?  Such people know nothing of  “the law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus.”  They know only of “law of SIN AND DEATH” (Rom. 8:2).

Is there anywhere a Scripture that presents the resurrection of the wicked in such a glorious, and holy, divine light?  I think not. Rather we are presented with this as the characterization of the resurrected wicked to eonian judgment:Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [eonian] life, and some to shame [rebuke, reproach, disgrace] and everlasting [eonian] contempt [repulsion, aversion, abhorrence].

Ray doesn't give any specific details as to how people will live and what kind of living arrangements will take place, so I won't venture into any speculation as to exactly how things will be. Those of the Non Elect Group(Everybody else) will learn righteousness through God's Judgements being taught by God's Elect, Isaiah. 26:9.

If any Forum members would like to contribute to this Thread, expressing their hope of the Resurrection, including Ray's material, Past Threads and Scriptural Witnesses, please proceed to do so.

                               Kind Regards, Samson.
 

[One Love]

Hey Samson
This is truly the topic of now & the future. I'm sure we're in the judgement era right now!
Mr. Smith exposes, expounds & teaches this in so many different papers, transcripts & emails. I just loved the "Does all mean all?" transcript. I've heared time & again how the TV "saints" preach & teach the literal & most of these "saints" come highly equipped with their Degrees, doctorates & titles, it makes me think of these scientists, who give names to shooting stars & hurricanes, etc. It also amazes me how many people sit under these teachings & receive it as truths. Greatest of all topics!

I just want to say thank you to Mr. Smith & all the people here at bibletruths.com

Cheers!

[Pini56]

Hello Samson,

I really love this scripture. It gives me hope and comfort in the midst of this miserable and evil world. Being with the Lord always is what its about for me. Forsaking all else just to walk with him is my sole desire.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. KJV. 1 Thess. 4:13-18.

Peace To You, Regards Geoff.

[Samson]

Hi Samson,

One of my favorite scriptures on this subject is Luke 20:38, "For He is not a God of the dead, but of the living:for all live unto Him".

Jesus always cuts to the quick.  I take two positive things from this verse.  First, death, dying, and all negative things are not in God's fundamental makeup.  He is about life and living and the broad, sunlit uplands of life.  Second, the verse supports universal salvation, "for all live unto Him".  God saves all.  Failure is not an option to Him.  He brings everyone along for the ride.  How can you not love a God whose fundamental component is love?  Everyone wins.

John


Excellent Points John, Everyone wins and All are living to Him. God will never fail in His commission to save all(1John. 4:14). On the other hand, Humans need to experience failure and learn from their failures to become successful.

                                  Thanks, Samson.

Also thanks for contributions from Geoff & 1Luv too. Samson.

[One Love]

Dear Samson
I hope someone can shed some light on this! The "Hope of the resurrection" is great news!
This is such an important topic, basically our next age (eion) depends on this.
Every time I read the teachings on this, I feel something is missing!!!!!!!

We have the FEW (believers, saints, obeyers,.........) and the
MANY (unbelievers, sinners, disobeyers,.................)
This is from Mr. Smith's paper "LOF part iii"
"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).
This is after ALL be resurrected, right!

Now who are these:
From your original email, "Mr. Smith's reply"

There are not two resurrection for the same person, but rather two classes of people who are resurrected, and the Elect are said to be in the "first" or "former" resurrection.  "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST [or former] resurrection" (Rev. 20:5). Now this is some question as to whether this verse is really Scripture or whether it was added to the manuscript. We still have conformation of two classes of people resurrected from other Scriptures:

[One Love]

Continued from my last email:

Mr. Smith mentions this in the transcript "Does all mean all"
"He did not come for that purpose and this is going to open up a giant revelation when I come to this in my series about, when Christ comes, what is He coming back to do?  It’s not what is being taught.  It is not.  It is going to be something totally different." 

I can't wait for this paper if it's already posted, can someone direct me to it!

[Kat]

Hi 1Luv,

"For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).
This is after ALL be resurrected, right!

The fire that we all are judged by is the same fire.

Heb 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire.

This is from the article D4 Hell: Gehenna Fire Judgment, it should answer your question.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm ----------

Now then, when "must we all appear before the judgment sea of Christ?" When the whole world appears before it? NO. Let's read the verse:

"For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Do we for the first time appear before the dais of Christ when the rest of the world appears before His dais? No, of course not. If we blow our knee to Christ for the first time in the White Throne Judgment with the rest of the world, we won't be in the kingdom of God.We had better be "bowing the knee to Jesus" right NOW.

"...Behold now is the accepted time; Behold, now is the day ['a day'-Rotherham, Diaglott, Young's, Concordant] of salvation" (II Cor. 6:2).

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent" (Acts 17:30).

"And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep, for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed" (Rom. 13:11).

"Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy" (I Pet. 2:10).

"For if we would judge ourselves [now] we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned [later] with the world [later in the Great White Throne Judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

"For the TIME IS COME [now] that judgment must begin at the House of God..." (I Pet. 4:17).

"...for the time is at hand" (Rev. 1:3 and 22:10).

There can be no argument against the fact that God's Elect are to "bow their knee" NOW in this Church age or we will find ourselves in the next age when, "Because He has appointed a day in the which He will judge the world in righteousness..." Acts 17:31). During our calling, we stand before the Judgment of Jesus and give an account daily of the works done in our flesh. How do we actually do this? Paul instructs us: "For if we would judge ourselves..." (I Cor. 15:11:31). This is how we are to be judged.

Notice how Paul's statement is in perfect agreement with that of Jesus: "And if your right eye offend you, [you] pluck it out... And if your right hand offend you, [you] cut it off..." (Matt. 5:29-30).

Isn't that amazing? That's how Jesus Judges US. He helps us judge OURSELVES! It is voluntary. But if we do not volunteer to judge ourselves, guess what? "...for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish [voluntarily] and not that your whole body should be cast [Gk: ballo-'throw violently or intensely' against your will] into Gehenna [fire]" (Ver. 30)

"For if we would judge ourselves we should not be judged... we should not be condemned with the world" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

In God's due time, all humanity will voluntarily desire with their whole heart to be a member of the Family of God. No one will be forced in or out of God's Family.
------------------------------------------------------

I can't wait for this paper if it's already posted, can someone direct me to it!

I don't think Ray has covered that particular thing, yet. But he is working on several papers right now, so maybe it won't be too long.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[One Love]

Thank you Kat
You're a blessing to this forum, I pray that GOD gives you added wisdom & understanding of the scriptures.
After Mr. Smith quoted (Rev. 20: 5), was there any research into this scripture to find out "whether this verse is really Scripture or whether it was added to the manuscript"

Cheers & happy holidays.

[Kat]

Hi 1Luv,

We do have a list of Scriptures that are not found in the oldest manuscripts, Sinaitic and Vatican, thus considered spurious (not by the authors, but added later). This list was researched and compiled by Professor C. Tischendorf, it can be found at this link
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6638.0.html

Ray had just located this list at the '07 Conference 'How We Got The Bible.' He did discuss this verse a bit, here is the excerpt.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.msg49001.html#msg49001 ---

Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, don’t have a clue.  Not only do they not have the answers, they don’t even know what the problems are.  
But these verses here;

Rev 20:4  …And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Both of these verses can not be true, there is a problem here.  I racked my brain, in my spare time, but I kept it in the back of my mind for a long time.  There is a problem, that won’t work and I can’t make it work.  It doesn’t fit, there is no way to make this thing fit.  Then some months ago, now I know why it, “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” won’t fit.  It’s not Scripture!  Tischendorf has it right there.

Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished...

It’s not in the Sinaiticus.  So I said, okay now we’re moving again.  We’re a little closer to the Truth.  
---------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Your question is not trivial or shallow Samson!

Affirmation ~  

Where IS Jesus Christ? ..............Jesus Christ is IN you? 2 Cor 13:5

................................................ Christ IN you, the hope of glory. Col 1:27

.................................................The Spirit of God dwells IN you? 1 Cor 3:16

My hope of The Resurrection is  to  abide and dwell in His Kingdom more fully with each passing day of my life. My hope is that before my pysical life should end, that my spiritual life within, is completed in Him.  My hope is to be part of His Kingdom that shall reign upon the earth when He comes to raise all who have died before me and all that may die after me.

Blessings
Arc

[markn902]

What a nice topic  you're right Samson I don't think about this enough...

[Terry]

So, as mentioned by Ray in the above Emails, Jesus and The Chosen Elect are raised spiritually, but will be able to manifest themselves in the physical in order to be seen by everyone else(Wicked, unbelievers, etc) that's Resurrected. Ray indicates that everyone else will be resurrected in a physical body that's not Immortal or deathless(Greek-Athanasia). Read excerpts from His article: Physical or Spiritual Resurrection Bodies for wicked & Unbelievers below.

The major prophecy concerning the resurrection is found in Ezek. 37. Here we are shown a valley of “dry bones” which God says represents “the WHOLE House of Israel” -- “And He said unto me, `Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; lo, they are saying: Dried up have our bones, And perished has our hope, We have been cut off by ourselves” (Ezek. 37:11).

So the whole House of Israel dies in a condition of being “perished” with no “hope,” and are “cut off.”  But what does God tell Ezekiel He will do for them?

I am prophesying, and lo, a rushing, and draw near do the bones, bone unto its bone."

Eze 37:8  “And I beheld, and lo, on them [are] sinews [tendons, strength, muscular power], and flesh [muscles, fat, etc.]  has come up, and cover them does skin [the outer covering of a physical body] over above--and spirit there is none in them."

I know of no “spiritual” tendons, muscles, fat or skin, that are put on physical “bones” to remake a “spiritual” man.  This is a PHYSICAL resurrection of the dead, Eze 37:10 “And I have prophesied as He commanded me, and the Spirit comes into them, and they live, and stand on their feet--a very very great force” (Ezek. 37:10).

Notice that it takes the spirit from God to give these dried bones life once more. They then “stand on their feet.” This is the exact and precise definition of the word “resurrection.” It means to “stand up” upon one’s feet, but the word itself has nothing to do with being “spiritual” or “immortal” whatsoever.  Jesus raised a little girl and Lazarus from the dead, and they stood up on their feet and lived—they were not made spiritual bodies or given immortality. Likewise those saints resurrected at Christ’s resurrection, were not given spiritual bodies or immortality.

Nowhere are the wicked promised immortality or incorruption, nowhere.

1Co 15:50  “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”

Chapter 15 is speaking of the true Elect Saints of God “inheriting the Kingdom of God.  Is the act of raising the wicked from the dead and act of their “inheriting the Kingdom of God?” I think not.  Will the wicked then “inherit incorruption” at their resurrection?  Well many say “YES, yes they will.”  NO, no they WON’T!  Are men like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler and Saddam Hussein, who are among the most “corruptible” men who have ever lived, going to be given bodies that are “incorruptible?”   Do the Scriptures lie when they tell us that “corruption” (as in the above named persons) does NOT “inherit incorruption?”

Should Mao, Adolph, and Saddam be resurrected to incorruptible and immortal bodies, then death would also be “swallowed up in victory” in THEIR LIVES ALSO.  How could they go through the “second DEATH” if “death” would have already been “swallowed up in VICTORY” in their miserable, wicked, vile, and deranged carnal minds?  Such people know nothing of  “the law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus.”  They know only of “law of SIN AND DEATH” (Rom. 8:2).

Is there anywhere a Scripture that presents the resurrection of the wicked in such a glorious, and holy, divine light?  I think not. Rather we are presented with this as the characterization of the resurrected wicked to eonian judgment:Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [eonian] life, and some to shame [rebuke, reproach, disgrace] and everlasting [eonian] contempt [repulsion, aversion, abhorrence].
--------------------------------
Thanks Samson for your post I just can’t get past this one thing though, the elect will be raised Spiritual and not flesh and blood I get this,
But the rest, all the rest will be raised with or in a physical body flesh and blood just as they had when they died so what I’m trying to understand is will these in the physical bodies when they go through the Lake of fire and repent receive spiritual bodies as the elect or keep the flesh and blood physical bodies that they were raised with and live on without the worry of death anymore I wish I could put down on paper what’s going on in my head.
Since the elect will reign and rule during this time it’s seems as if they will be Gods new Government over the rest of the second resurrection but for how long or forever I don’t know.
I feel like a dog chasing his tail right now so I’ll leave it here for now and maybe pickup on it later,
Blessing
Terry

[Kat]

Hi Terry,

1Cor 15:25  For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
v. 26  The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

So Christ and the Elect will rule until "He has put all enemies under His feet." Then we can see what is to happen to all of humanity.

1Cor 15:28  Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

1Cor 15:24  Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

So all of humanity will eventually be brought into the kingdom, when God is "all in all" and they would have to be spirit to be in the kingdom. Then everybody will be a part of God's family.

1Cor 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Here are a couple emails on this subject.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1529.0.html --------------

The "Kingdom of God" is the kingdom that will rule the nations under the Kingship of Jesus Christ, composed of lesser kings, lords, priests, and judges.  These kings, lords, priests, and judges, are composed of the ranks of God's Chosen Elect Saints.
 
Only those worthy of the First resurrection from the death will ever rule with Christ in the Kingdom of God. Those who are judged, purified and saved in the Great White Throne Judgment will be in God's family, but they will never be rulers with Christ.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6964.0.html --------------------

We have but three Scriptures which speak directly on things that endure the consummation of the ages, and continue throughout the Kingdom of God, and are stated to "have no end," or suggest "no end."  I will not speculate at this time beyond what the Scriptures specifically tell us, although I believe there is move to be gleaned from them, but I will reserve my thoughts on that till a later date.

    [1]   Luke 1:33-- And He [Jesus] shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever [Gk: 'eons'--plural]; and OF  His kingdom [His 'kingdom,' not His 'reign'] there shall be no end.

    COMMENT:  Jesus' "reign" lasts "for the eons," or "a thousand years." I will explain the spiritual meaning of "a thousand years" in future Installments of my "Lake of Fire" series. So the reign of Jesus ends (I Cor. 15:25), but what was accomplished through His reign (that which is "OF" His Kingdom), will have "NO end."

    [2]  (KJV) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end

    (ASV) Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end

    (Bishops)  He shall make no ende to encrease the rule & peace

    (CLV) To the increase of the chieftainship, and to the welfare shall be no end

    (Rotherham) Of the increase of dominion, and of prosperity, There shall be no end—

    (YLT) To the increase of the princely power, And of peace, there is no end

    COMMENT:  So these things will not only continue into eternity, they will increase:  "government & peace," "rule & peace," "chieftain ship & welfare," "dominion & prosperity," "princely power & peace."

    [3]  "That God may be ALL in all" (I Cor. 15:28).

    COMMENT:  I believe that the "may be" in this verse carries the connotation that after all the things that go before (Jesus bringing ALL enemies into subjection and death abolished) that the next phase of God's purpose is now read to BEGIN.  I do not believe that God being "All in all" is the "end" but the "beginning" of a whole new world!  I may have more to say on this in future studies.

    God be with you,

    Ray

[Terry]

Thanks Kat i see it now what a beautiful love story  the scripitures give us.
Blessing Terry

[HoneyLamb56]

I continue to marvel at the insight of everyone on this forum; once again I have gleaned something from reading this thread that I had not paid attention to before or had forgotten what I had read. 

Has anyone thought about what minds one will have when raised in the judgment?  Will one remember his old life (memories); how will one know how carnal they are to go thru the judgment by the elect if they don't remember?  Does one start a new?  I don't get the resurrection from this perspective.

[Marky Mark]

I continue to marvel at the insight of everyone on this forum; once again I have gleaned something from reading this thread that I had not paid attention to before or had forgotten what I had read. 

Has anyone thought about what minds one will have when raised in the judgment?  Will one remember his old life (memories); how will one know how carnal they are to go thru the judgment by the elect if they don't remember?  Does one start a new?  I don't get the resurrection from this perspective.

Email response from Ray...

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1733.0.html

Dear Craig:

Yes, of course, what we have learned in this life will be carried over to the next. If not, what would even be the purpose for living a human life in the first place?   It is the preparation and regeneration and conversion and being begotten anew from above through the Holy Spirit of God that is the prerequisite to entering the Kingdom of God. "Study to show yourself approved ['qualified'] unto God...." (II Time. 2:15).

God be with you,

Ray


Peace...Mark

[geokuhns]

Great thread Samson. All posts were very good especially Kat's and Terry's. I believe part of Samson's intent was to show that unbelievers will be resurrected with physical bodies rather than spiritual bodies at the White Throne Judgment. There are some groups that believe that unbelievers including such despots as Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Stalin etc. will be resurrected with spiritual bodies to face the White Throne Judgment and their Lake of Fire. Both Samson and Terry quoted from Ray's article on this subject and for those that would like to read or print it out in it's entirety here it is.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.msg59437.html#msg59437

[Samson]

Great thread Samson. All posts were very good especially Kat's and Terry's. I believe part of Samson's intent was to show that unbelievers will be resurrected with physical bodies rather than spiritual bodies at the White Throne Judgment. There are some groups that believe that unbelievers including such despots as Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Stalin etc. will be resurrected with spiritual bodies to face the White Throne Judgment and their Lake of Fire. Both Samson and Terry quoted from Ray's article on this subject and for those that would like to read or print it out in it's entirety here it is.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.msg59437.html#msg59437


Yes George,

You have perceived correctly about My intent to show a distinction between God's Chosen Elect receiving Spiritual Bodies with the ability to manifest themselves in the Flesh, just like Jesus did during the Forty Days after His Resurrection and receiving Immortality in contrast with Everyone Else(Called, Unbelievers, Extremely Wicked, etc.) Resurrected with Physical Bodies. Glad You noticed that !

Other Universalist Groups, based on my past investigation of them seem to be confused about the above distinction. Opponents of Universal Salvation sometimes get the impression that Extremely Wicked Individuals as mentioned by Ray in My initial Post(Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc) would immediately receive Immortality upon being Resurrected. Perhaps this Misunderstanding is based on the Eventual Salvation of all belief in general. In a debate I once watched on You-Tube with Gary Amirault(Tentmakers) discussing the False Doctrine of Eternal Punishment with "Professor" Jerry Walls, He(Gary Amirault) inadvertently said Hitler was going to Heaven. Of course We know this to be false. Hitler needs to be cleaned and purified of His Carnal(Fleshly thinking) first.

Unfortunately, Sometimes Our Site gets lumped together with what other Universalist Sites teach, so I wanted this clarified for Guests and some of Our Newer Members.

                                 Kind Regards, Samson.

[markn902]

Thanks Samson for your post I just can’t get past this one thing though, the elect will be raised Spiritual and not flesh and blood I get this,
But the rest, all the rest will be raised with or in a physical body flesh and blood just as they had when they died so what I’m trying to understand is will these in the physical bodies when they go through the Lake of fire and repent receive spiritual bodies as the elect or keep the flesh and blood physical bodies that they were raised with and live on without the worry of death anymore I wish I could put down on paper what’s going on in my head.
Since the elect will reign and rule during this time it’s seems as if they will be Gods new Government over the rest of the second resurrection but for how long or forever I don’t know.
I feel like a dog chasing his tail right now so I’ll leave it here for now and maybe pickup on it later,
Blessing
Terry

Terry
I have wondered the same thing before as the bible is not exactly clear. (IMO about this one thing) I think about Rev 10:4  "And, when the seven thunders had spoken, I was about to write, and I heard a voice out of heaven, saying—Seal up the things which the seven thunders have uttered, and do not write, them."
And I believe it was Daniel who had a similar vision and was told not to "seal it up" I think they both had to eat it ( I might be mistaken about Daniel I'm sure someone will correct me) so apparently there is more to the story and we will all find out at the appropriate time  The good news is after learning the truth from reading Rays papers and the countless great posts by everyone (such as mharrell08  ) I don't fear that day. Whatever it is that will happen will be awesome and I HOPE to be a part of it.

Great post Samson and I mean it about the good work Marques I appreciate it

Mark