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[Craig]

Very timely Marques and a much needed reminder. 

1 Cor. 8:1  Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

We are all still beasts and most of us have learned much and have become puffed up. (me too)

I know most have been hurt by the religious system, but most who are in it need charity and understanding; even when we do feel like we are pounding our head on a brick wall.  The ones who lead these masses and know they are wrong or only do it for personal gain is the ones that our righteous anger should be pointed too. 

So to my original question, is this church heading in a right direction?  My answer is yes.  Do I want everyone to rush there and join? No.  I'm sure they have many bad beliefs still, and we are admonished to come out of her.  But it is refreshing to see a hulk of a ship like religion make a small course correction to the right heading.  Who knows what God has in store for this church or any of us?  The leaders of this church are rightly seeing something is amiss in their world, like we once did.  What if these people looked in on our forum and saw us running them down?  Wouldn't do much for them to want to be like us huh?

Folks, we have been called out, but don't ever think we are any better.  The knowledge we have been given is no better than a pile of dung if we can't apply it in our lives.

Craig

[DougE6]

WOW. Those last two posts, By Craig and Marques, building on what was written by Ninny, are truly words that are free from carnal superiority, they represent the heart of Christ. Thank you for posting those.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Human lives are dysfunctional. Isn’t dysfunction the state of all physically aligned associations that share the same space with the higher spiritual realm of God’s Kingdom among us? Dysfunction ~ the Lot of the flesh.

Christ reigns supreme over heaven and earth. There can be nothing of Him in association to death and mortality. He is Spirit and Truth, Life and Love. He has conquered death and mortality, dysfunction and error. You know this. It’s elementary.

HE, Jesus Christ,  caused me,  last night, to ask on behalf of my husband, for HIS help in whatever, however way, HE sees wise and fit, to His Mercy. HE, Jesus Christ, wasn’t standing in the flesh before me, telling me to pray for my husband. No. The motivation, impulse and cause came from within me. The motivation to pray comes from a designation of my relationship that is God declared of and over me towards my husband..... thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. Gen. 3 : 16 To pray for my husband then, is by God’s design.

Carnal men have no idea how to rule over their wives.

I am clueless as to how to prescribe to God. He has shown me a depth of ignorance. There are many depths of many ignorance’s.
I asked God for help. He is a Royal King in Sovereign Command of every move of every star orbiting every space in the Universe and in the makeup of our own atomic structures that bind us inside physical carnal flesh.  There is no Mercy in flesh.

I am asking God to remove false feelings of security based on physical well being and supply. Have you ever experienced an empathy driven stake through your body? Ha...Have you never felt the sting of an injection to anesthetize pain? No? Personal expectations and needs don’t make the Universe go round. Does anything nice ever happen to you? I don’t expect Him to make me physically ill to cause my disassociation to physical bondages. Have a Heart. His Heart and His Kingdom as He prescribes is what life is all about. Thine is The Kingdom come.
Where’s your sound mindedness? Oh. Ranting of a pained mad woman? Really? Have you no pain? Have you no heart? Have you no peace of love and kindness? No? Are you paralyzed? Yes? Are you in a sound mind that exhibits no feeling and compassion or recognition of what drives pain and fear?

Call a spade a spade for once in your life. Leave the hypocrisy alone.

I know seductive, cooing balms of self idolatry. Is this God talking? If so, to who does He speak? You? I? Or are you too perfect to know? I’m not. I know its God, so kill me. And He does! He does! He kills the Beast within. His is the Throne that shall be occupied by His Glory and Power, Authority and Grace, Mercy and Great Love. The beast, yours and mine will die and shall be no more. Can you feel the pain? So did HE. His pain wasn’t any beast dying in His soul. It was our beast killing our salvation and placing His blood in defiance, upon our reptilian skins of cold vacant, clammy self aggrandizements. Too shocking is it. Nothing shocks Him! He knows everything and every deep dark secret of everyone.

Nothing  gets past Him. He gets it. He gets us. He gets that everything and everyone is all about us, who rile against any little thing that threatens our self hypocrisy. Yes. It is that deep, that the green stale life of horror needs to be drained out of our lungs from every orifice of our putrid bodies. Oh I am not speaking to the genius ingenuity of our God who has crafted our muscles, sinews, veins and flesh into a vessel of supreme mastery of physical anatomy. No. I speak of the orifices of the carnal soul. The orifice is not the genital or sensual gaping bottomless pit, but the orifice of carnal destructions and self impalements. The getway escapes to delusion and whimpering darkness. Does nothing shock you? 

I have listened far too long to the self-espoused hypocrites of radical delusion. Tell me pride comes before a fall and I’ll let rip like Christ with the whip turning over tables in His House of Prayer because you trade His words and His standards upon others whilst you inflate  your own sense of worthiness upon the sufferings of others. God will be God inside every writhing, hypocritical, foolish, drug abased hypocrite and He will set straight His Kingdom with or without you prancing your titles and aggrandizements on the world’s best selling news reports. Great is the desire for healing.

Do you want to be with Him and not without Him?  The job of correcting the dregs of society when He comes to rule with a rod of Iron is for those who are understanding the job description is not a walk in the park. It is one that guarantees success in absolute resolute integrity to what is Holy. It is one that requires such deep cleansing that even the cockroaches will go to church voluntarily and it won’t be the carnal church of dying flesh. Can you laugh? No?

Are you squeamish? No? Feel every feeling. Receive every beating heart as yours.  Put on the TV and see the wrought pain of those you will never meet in the flesh but will meet when they ask you how long your feeling lasted when you saw their eyes poked out and their children given over to sex trade and drugs. Did you cry then? You will. You will. Your own salt of the sea of tears will cleanse your deep stony hearts.

Haven’t you cried? Ah. Where’s your pride that comes before your fall dear? Aren’t you the same as all flesh? Can’t you see the error in you is the same one in all? Fool. What a fool, all have been.

Oh I don’t beat myself up. No. I prefer to beat you up in the hope of My Glory. Isn’t that the way you know best how to behave in this rabid deafening to senses society of giant wills to escape pain? Break down all the questions. Line them up and answer.  Pain is such a clean experience by contrast to the breaking apart un-cohesive corruption that is queasy  soft, abjectly spineless and deeply self hypocritical. A mucky mushy mess is the stony heart of the glutton, the aimless hopelessly lost soul of the destitute. Does nothing shock you yet?

Where is Jesus in all this? He is right there on the cross and He gets off the Cross but not before the eyes that are relishing  His death.
He overcomes the worst in you and me and all the world and He does it out of sight, out of mind and out of  His Heart piercing the heady self glorifying crowds who coo to death and purr to spiritual poverty to their own demise. He authors it ALL.

The god of flesh’s liking and making,  fits  carnal narcissism. Too bored, not enough energy to look up that word, are you? You refuse to learn and defy teaching  yet your own Teacher, that is sent of the Christ Spirit, tells you, begs you, implores you to pay attention to the words. This one doesn’t come out but by what...prayer...and fasting is the addition of those who want your meal ticket. There is no sacrifice for sin that has not been paid in full.  Have you got a Dictionary? Have you got legs? Can you get up and take up the mat of self excuses and languishing self sorrow  and ego? Take up your mat of indulgence and walk. Only when you are dying can you really start living. Get up to God. Get up to the speed of the Spirit of Christ in you. Do I talk to myself? Have you not heard?

 This  god of all flesh has bowed before emotional scars, yesterdays,  hurts, grief’s, failed ambitions,  less than glorious victories and most of all,  defeats, hidden issues with destruction and effortless agony that overwhelms the broken hearted.  Have you got anything like that beautiful? Well handsome?  Have I not performed spiritual plastic surgery of the slouch, the sloth and the fearful of the one True God that says He will burn all the defecations of the world up and He will leave clean what is filth.  What a Powerful, Masterful God we actually have, you and I. Father is GREATNESS personified in the Face of Christ our consuming FIRE<He burns off the veils of carnal flatteries, ambitions and look good pontifications.

Oh you want scripture and verse do you. You fool. The Scripture is not the Word of God. The Word of God is Christ in the beginning. The Scriptures do testify of Him, they are not HIM. You want a fight. You want to take out Timothy 3 : do you? Go ahead. What Bible has ever made a person whole, repented, and saved. Not one. Did Christ convert anyone in his earth time ministry? You know He didn’t.

 Hundreds and thousands of Bibles out there.  Over 30 thousand different stages and podiums of the flesh speaking Pharasiess to choose from. Pick your dress. You have so much variety. Like to sing. Go to the Pentecostal. Like to look holy. Go Catholic.

 Only the Spirit, the Living Spirit of God in you can set you free. His Kingdom that the Scribes and Pharisees prevent from connecting to the living spirit of Christ and His Kingdom among and within us. Yes it is. It is.

He is the Spirit that is gagged, bound, broken, pierced and crucified that is supposed to be in you as His Death you share, crucified. Where are you reading this. In the comforts of the job, family and life He has given you for He gives to both good and evil. Who are you. Where are you?

Ring the alarm. Am I teaching. No. I am crying. Can you still not hear? The time for teaching has left  my bones, body, and veins. I am crying. Can you cry. Can the salt of your own wounds burst open and hear His Voice in you that is His Mercy speaking, His Love loving and His Spirit Healing you. He is the Teacher of His Pain, His Love and Victory He brings in you. What can I teach you if you think, with that sound mind you so admire. Think. God is a God of the Living. Am I dead?

 HE shall remove the stain of destitution, prostitution and revolution. HE will get to the nitty gritty of the heart of stone that is within and He with His Victory,  burns through trash to re make what is broken, useless and worthless to Him. He will remake what is spoiled and trashed and bent and corrupt.  Got any trash beautiful?  Call the Ghost buster. His name is Christ and His Kingdom is Light that is way too bright for misty eyes that love the dark. He has appeared to some within. Why wouldn’t He? His Kingdom is within.

That’s got to be some victory don’t you think you pride filled muffin of tragedy. Oh you think I am talking to YOU. No I’m not. I am not talking to YOU. Ha....were you offended?

A heart of stone can’t beat.  It can only hate. God can and will be loved with every beat of our hearts.  Sooner  or later, He will be the epitome of everything we love, admire and desire and represent.

Do you know what it means when something hurts so good? Check His Kingdom out. It IS within.

Blessings of His Kingdom and His Royal Majesty

Yours Truly
Deb

[Craig]

I know just where you are coming from John.

Craig

[GaryK]

I perceive we are all talking past one another.  I do not think we have any fundamental disagreements.  We are just considering this matter from different perspectives.

I have only one reaction to any religion or religious teacher.  I despise them all (the Pope and Billy Graham and the Dalai Lama included).  I immediately pick up on the errors they all teach.  I tune them out and turn away.  I have been this way for the past ten to fifteen years since I left my former church.  I cannot even remember the exact date I left (maybe around 1998?) because I was like a bird freed from a net.  I flew away and kept on flying as far and fast as I could.

I am still in shock and awe that I stopped and read and studied the information on the BT website in October 2009.  I cannot believe that I attended the Mobile bible conference in November 2009 since I cannot abide religious things.  What Ray taught just struck a cord in me.  I perceive that what is taught here is the real truth.  The real deal.  Knowing myself, it amazes me that I'm still here studying and listening.

For what it is worth, I do not think that I am one of the Elect.  There is too much evil in my dark heart. But I have this abiding curiosity at what the Father is doing.  The Father is so amazing and fascinating.  It is a strange work that He is doing.  The Master Potter is forming us all for a specific purpose in His Grand Plan.  We will all be happy where He puts us because we will be where we are meant to be.  I wonder if we will ever fully understand the Father.

You're being very kind John, different perspectives maybe....maybe not, but I sure couldn't tell it from a few 'perspectives' in this thread.

gk

[DougE6]

John from Kentucky.... Pro 25:11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.  That was a very nice answer to what could have been construed to be a criticism.

I understand both what you have said and what Marques and Craig have said.  I like both of what has been said.  Yes there are definitely different perspectives possible on such a broad topic.  

My agreement is with you both. If I could put forth one perspective I see, and I am open to criticism on it.  The early church was deeply involved in sharing of worldly goods and supporting each other.  They took up collections for widows and orphans.  They also were deeply evangelistic to the unreached.  Those are examples that we should follow.  I do not think it is bad to see this work being done by this church and then respecting what they are doing.  I will not go deeper than that, as far as judging them or their motives. I simply thank God that they are doing that and then I compare myself to those works, and see if I measure up.  I just don’t want to be a hearer and a learner only, I want to be a doer, and I respect people who do, and do give of themselves sacrificially.  I would never categorically state that their works will merely burn up.  Let Jesus judgement seat decide that.  I have my hands full judging myself already.

[cjwood]

... The ones who lead these masses and know they are wrong or only do it for personal gain is the ones that our righteous anger should be pointed too.  

first of all, i want to say that i have been reading and re-reading this thread and all the posts that have been written on it, because i believe something is going on, between the lines, in some of the posts.  the, there's an elephant in the room, but we're not talking about it, kind of feeling.  it is something i am sensing in the gut of my soul.  something that has stirred within my spirit. i don't know what it is, but i believe there are those who do.  most importantly, i know that He knows what it is about.

the reason i copied and bolded the above statement by craig is because, after re-reading the posts written prior to craig's exhortation, i don't believe anyone was taking am at the blind/deaf ones sitting in the pews.  it is those who preach, teach, and deceive those that sit under their counsel that are the recipients of the 'righteous anger'.  when the statement was expressed to 'don't be so hard on these guys', my reaction after the first read of the posts prior to that statement was, no one seems to be being hard on the guys who sat in church, but on those who mislead, and lie to those who sit listening.  after re-reading the posts, i still do not believe any one was being, high-minded, puffed up, with a better than they are attitude.  i did not see pride in any of the posts that would require a fall.  i just didn't.


claudia

[Craig]

Thanks Claudia for catching my mistake in my original question, I did not reread it before posting.  I did say what you said.  

There was no ulterior motive for my post and I think I am pretty blunt with my posts (probably to a fault) and I don't think it matters what my original question was, as my reason for posting remains the same.   My reason for the follow-up post was to remind everyone we are no better than anyone sitting in the pews every week.  Whenever the church question comes up (this does not just single out this thread) we are quick to condemn by post and pm.  I just wanted to point out that we should not do this, and why, and that I am guilty also.

Perhaps the posts were meant to condemn the leaders but unfortunately when we talk about the churches we make the members guilty by association.  People forget that Jesus speaks of the good attributes of the churches in Revelation 2 & 3 also.  We have many more visitors than members and it would be sad for a person who is being pulled from the church to see us as the enemy or unloving elitists or even worse like those Ray talks about in "The kiss of Death" paper.

When I asked what they are "really like"  I just wondered if the news story was true or if this church was the same as all the other mega-churches?  Because if the story was true then this church is definitely heading in a better direction. Nobody posting from the other side of the world or the country or the state would know for sure unless they went there or knew someone who did, Kathy's response was what I was asking for, and I am still curious if anyone knows anyone.

I did not meant to single anyone out as we all are guilty of our feelings.  I want John to know I was not picking on him, as I suspect I am cut from the same mold as he is

Craig

[Linny]

I totally understand what you are saying Craig as I have to work diligently on a daily, maybe even minute by minute basis, to keep myself off of any pedestal for knowing what I know. Human nature is a hard enemy and quite frankly, I like to be right.
I would like to say one thing. I read a lot here about the deceptive preachers but I have a brother-in-law who is a preacher and who I obviously believe is teaching falsities. While I agree that there are MANY who are teaching lies to further themselves financially and selling whatever they can using God to make a profit, I don't think we can put them all in the same category. My brother-in-law is a dear man with a huge heart. He truly believes what he teaches is truth (he unfortunately has his doctorate in theology) as was proven when he had a long discussion about hell with my husband. His final thoughts were simply, "I hope you are right." This is not the heart of a man who wishes torture on anyone. And he too is exactly where he is supposed to be.
That last statement is one I have to repeat over and over again to myself.

[Craig]

Doggone John, I had you pictured as a tie dyed shirt wearing flower child that sang Kumbayah every morning when waking up.

Craig

[santikos]

Hey Craig,

 To offend me, you need to chop off my head with a dull ax or burn me at the stake with green, wet wood.

   darn, i have already prepared red wood. maybe next time

[DougE6]

While searching the front page of Rays website, a few minutes ago,  I found an email I sent him some years ago and his answer. It deals somewhat with this very topic...

I think your web site is doing a great service.   I do not think it will impact much at all those with a hardened made up mind attitude, but for those like me, who for 20 years agonized over the prospect of so many people facing such an awful eternal doom it is like the most refreshing thing I have ever read. 

One small question I am pondering.  Since so much of Christendom believes (at least doctrinally I'm not sure how many believe it in their heart) in eternal torment, how does God do his work through these ministries so far in error?

I guess it is true when we come to Christ we receive a better salvation than those who come after death by sight, and not by faith, as we do avoid any of Gods corrections, but I wish some ministries would arise and do the works of God and preach the correct Gospel!

For example, I think Focus on the family does a lot of good in dealing with issues of this life (though still no hope for most after death) so what should are position be in regards to most of Christendom?
Ray Replies]

Dear Douglas:

Thank you for your interest in my site.

Paul said that there were those in his day that were preaching Christ for the WRONG reasons. He nonetheless said that Christ was at least being preached to some degree.   

There have been many people who have come to Jesus Christ through churches or ministries that are totally out of step with the Scriptures.  Many of these people write to me and tell me that although they found Christ in this or that church or ministry, that they were unfulfilled until God showed them His real plan of salvation for all. And that's one way in which God works through His own enemies of the Cross.

You are correct in stating that it is better to come to Christ through faith now rather than through sight later. However, ALL BELIEVERS are still corrected and chastised by God. Hebrews explains this in some detail:

"And you have been oblivious of the entreaty which is arguing with you as with sons:  My son, do not disdain the DISCIPLINE of the Lord, Nor yet faint when being EXPOSED by Him.  For whom the Lord is loving He is DISCIPLINING,  Yet He is SCOURGING [that is a severe beating, but used here to show the severity of God's actions to purge us of sin and carnality] EVERY SON to whom He is assenting." (Heb. 12:5-6). 

This chapter ends by informing us that, "Our God is also a CONSUMING FIRE." Paul tells us more about that spiritual consuming fire of God in I Cor. 3:14,

"If anyone's work will be remaining which he builds on it, he will get wages. If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire."

As Paul also said,

"It is through MUCH TRIBULATION that we enter into the Kingdom of the Heavens."

Keep the faith! God be with you!

Ray

[cjwood]

As to the guests coming to this website, any good Christian, especially a hellfire and brimstone bible thumper, cannot help but be offended by anything they read on the BT website.  Are there any of Ray's writings that would not offend a religious person?

john, this statement i've bolded is almost exactly what i thought when i read what marques and craig both said about our being concerned over running off, or offending, any guests because of things we have posted concerning the churches.  

it is true there are some guests who will join the forum first, without reading any of ray's papers, and may see our posts before they have any idea of what ray is teaching by the Spirit of God.  but, if guests can be easily offended by the words we speak from our hearts concerning the false teaching by the leaders of the churches, expecting us to be above saying anything they consider negative, they will be horribly offended when/if they read the truths ray has been expounding on.  i believe if some guest(s) might never get past any offending post by a forum member, and thereby never pursue the BT website any further, well, then that too is where God the Father has them in their lives.  

i believe that one can speak about the church leaders' deceptions, without it being an attack on the leader personally, or on the people innocently sitting in the pews attending church.  i also believe this is what the earlier posts on this thread were about, before it went in a whole other direction about previous posts being puffed up or on a high horse or about forgetting we sat in those same churches, about being prideful or any other such adjectives.  i don't believe at all that anyone who posted on this thread has forgotten that they too once sat in a church, listening to the preachers and believing what was spoken.

in my own humble opinion, if allowed to give it, i just can't see Jesus Christ being so concerned, to the point of berating some of His own apostles, for their saying anything amongst each other about the lies He exposed which were spoken and taught by the leaders/teachers in the temples.  and His reason for the berating being, because someone listening in on their conversation may attend the temple and be confused or offended by the apostles' discussion.  i may be very wrong on this, but, i don't see where Jesus Christ was so concerned that someone who may attend the synagogue was around and listening in when He lit into the pharisees and other leaders of the synagogue, that He held back from speaking the Truth.  

i know for sure, and not just my opinion, that ALL we do and say, whether in person or online, should be done out of love, and with the mind of Christ.  

claudia


 

[indianabob]

Good morning ALL,

40 replies from various members of the future Family of God, all offered in love.

This thread and its responses reminds me so much of a friendly family gathering at a
summer homecoming where everyone is listening carefully to hear the views and sincere
feelings of one another. Everyone taking their turn and all being aware of the little children
playing at our feet who may overhear our remarks and learn from them.

Thank you all for sharing and for using well the language of true Godly love.

Bob

[mharrell08]

in my own humble opinion, if allowed to give it, i just can't see Jesus Christ being so concerned, to the point of berating some of His own apostles, for their saying anything amongst each other about the lies He exposed which were spoken and taught by the leaders/teachers in the temples.

Claudia,

I actually used to think and feel the same way as you and John. Any member of the forum for the last 3 years knows that I've said many sharp comments on this subject and others when standing up for the Truth.

But, a very wise member of the forum reminded me that this forum is not all about me:

Matt 18:6, Mark 9:42, & Luke 17:2  whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

And as mentioned, the members of the church and some of their leaders, are babes in the spirit. They only handle the milk, not the meat. We've had members who were called from their leader positions in church. Not everyone called is sitting in the pews. Craig mentioned that the church members become guilty by association, and though that may only 'appear' that way from the outside, here is what Paul mentions about how we present ourselves or 'appear' to others:

1 Thess 5:22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.

Also, Christ saved his sharpest derision for the Jewish leaders who KNEW better. Most of the billions of Christians on this earth (including many pastors, priests, ministers, etc.) don't know any better. Christ likened them to the blind leading the blind...no one walks around intentionally blinded, circumstances completely out of their control have made them blind. We understand this in the physical sense but the same applies spiritually as well.

I am glad this subject came up however, as it has been a needed discussion for some time.


Marques


One other note from Paul:

Rom 11:18  ...do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you

[Kat]

Matt 18:6, Mark 9:42, & Luke 17:2  whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Thanks Marques for bringing out that very significant Scripture. I've been following this thread and actually can relate to both sides. Yes the church teaches manmade doctrines and heresy, we know this all so well because we were once there. BUT we also still have family and friends there and that is where the yet to be called out believers still are. So we have to be very careful how we speak, because at any time we do not know who "these little ones" are and could be here. Someone starting to read Rays articles and having their eyes opened are still in a delicate state of learning, certainly we would not want to be responsible for a single one of them having a setback or worse yet deciding maybe this is not for them.

I think we have only been given the mission, as Ray has, to expose those who contradict in a very limited way, if at all. If we ever have a time to speak out against the church, even then we should be careful, as we certainly are not filled with wisdom, to use in our words as Christ was.

Mat 10:16  "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[DougE6]

I think we have only been given the mission, as Ray has, to expose those who contradict in a very limited way, if at all. If we ever have a time to speak out against the church, even then we should be careful, as we certainly are not filled with wisdom, to use in our words as Christ was.

I think that is a very interesting statement.  Ray clearly has been equipped to do that very mission very well, to expose those who contradict. Do we then assume that is our mission too?  Do we have the wisdom, and the mandate to do so?  I think it is very tempting to feel spiritually superior over our lesser enlightened brothers and sisters.  But are we really superior, just because God has granted us this knowledge, this understanding? What if their works done from love are far better than ours?  Are we really superior?

What about telling people who have no church knowledge at all, about Jesus?  Are we only to go to the already churched?

Why can't we ever preach milk?  The apostle Paul did, he says so himself, to the Corinthians.  He could not give them strong meat, because they were yet too carnal!  But that did not stop him from giving them something!  Why do we feel we only have to be strong meat preachers?  Why cant we tailor our approach, depending on too whom we speak.  Christ certainly did.  I would LOVE to see some with this greater understanding actually go out and evngelize or do some of the difficult works those still in Babylon do, even if they are motivated partially to rescue people from the misbelief of eternal torment.  They still are demonstrating that they care.  I am very thankful that some Sunday School teacher aquainted me with Jesus 40 years ago.  God may have graciously given me more understanding since, but that was the beginning, and I am grateful for that.

[Kat]

Hi Doug,

I think maybe you are thinking that we should try to spread this truth and witness. Here are a couple of emails concerning this.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,245.0.html ----

I never said that you couldn't discuss your faith with others (in a store, on the street, wherever). But there is a quantum leap from talking to something in a coffee shop and TAKING THE GOSPEL TO ALL NATIONS!

The "ye" of Jesus' declaration of talking the gospel to all nations, was to His eleven apostles ONLY. And the second half of Matt. 28:19 is not even Scripture. It was added by the Catholic Church hundreds of years after the apostles. Jesus did NOT command Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and "many others" (Luke 8:3), to "teach all nations."  Yet they supported Jesus' ministry.
v
If you read Paul's epistles, you will see that Paul cautioned about "laying hands on anyone too quickly" lest they be lifted up with pride, etc.  I likewise caution people all the time about trying to "take on the religious establishment" immediately after learning a few Scriptural Truths. They usually fall flat on their face with shame, and the opponents eat them for lunch.  I won't tell you what you should do, Jeremy, I can only caution you.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2537.0.html -----

You will never, ever, ever win someone over by a clever argument with the Scriptures. There are two reason why I do this and you shouldn't:  [1] I am being a witness AGAINST all the heretics that attack me and the Truths of God, and [2] my answers to their foolish and unscriptural arguments are a great teaching tool for all those who read our site and who visit our Forum.

But in my private life, I do not try to convert, convince, change, etc., my neighbors and acquaintences.  I will tell them the truth about God and the Scriptures, but I do not make a pest of myself. If and when people ask you, give them only as much as then need and are willing to accept. If they desire more, they will come back.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,222.0.html ------

God called me to do what I do.
If you feel that God is calling you to be a teacher, then be a teacher. I cannot tell you how to approach strangers with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Quite frankly, one's actions and deeds speak more for your standing with God than do your words.  Peter said to be ready always to give an answer to them that "ask."  

I do not have a "Thus saith the Lord" regarding what you should do in your life as far as being a teacher, minister, etc.  It has been my experience, however, that most who want to teach do not have the ability from God to teach. But I am not there to witness your abilities.  This one is between you and God, Jeremy.
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Hi John,

However, on the BT website, I feel free, in that here there are others with like minded understanding.  I feel I can let my guard down.  I can read and discuss things that I couldn't discuss among the general public.  Among fellow mutants, I can speak openly.

This is the way I feel and enjoy this fellowship that we have here.

If I am not to offend anyone who may read this website, then I need to keep silent, like I do in everyday life, because I perceive that what I believe is offensive to the majority of people.  I have no desire to offend people just for the heck of it.

It's not that we should not speak these truths because that will offend the church goers that might be here, we should just be mindful of others when we speak.

In the future, I would like to know how the Father decides whom He calls.  Is it totally random?  A flip of a spiritual coin?

The Elect were to be chosen before they were even born.

Eph 1:4  just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

2Ti 1:9  who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,

Even before those that are chosen have their eyes opened I think they are given a certain path to walk that will prepare them for the time when their eyes are opened.

John 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

So it's ordained for the Elect to be who they are. But we can not get too haughty with this, because we do not know for sure if we are a true Elect (wheat oppose to a tare) until the resurrection.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Marky Mark]

It's not that we should not speak these truths because that will offend the church goers that might be here, we should just be mindful of others when we speak.

Tit 3:1  Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Tit 3:2  To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Tit 3:3  For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4  But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6  Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8  This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit 3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10  A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11  Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


Peace...Mark

[walt123]

Hello to all ,and thanks for this tread Craig

After reading all the replies,and learning much from fellow members, and in my opinion it would be good to be mindfull of
1cor 13:1-13 when and how we represent ourselves.

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 (New Living Translation)

1 Corinthians 13
Love Is the Greatest
 1 If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. 3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;[a] but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.
 4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

 8 Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! 9 Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! 10 But when full understanding comes, these partial things will become useless.

 11 When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a cloudy mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[c] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

 13 Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.


Walt.