> Off Topic Discussions
Anyone Go here?
santikos:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on December 30, 2010, 01:08:30 PM ---Hey Craig,
To offend me, you need to chop off my head with a dull ax or burn me at the stake with green, wet wood.
--- End quote ---
darn, i have already prepared red wood. maybe next time ::)
DougE6:
While searching the front page of Rays website, a few minutes ago, I found an email I sent him some years ago and his answer. It deals somewhat with this very topic...
I think your web site is doing a great service. I do not think it will impact much at all those with a hardened made up mind attitude, but for those like me, who for 20 years agonized over the prospect of so many people facing such an awful eternal doom it is like the most refreshing thing I have ever read.
One small question I am pondering. Since so much of Christendom believes (at least doctrinally I'm not sure how many believe it in their heart) in eternal torment, how does God do his work through these ministries so far in error?
I guess it is true when we come to Christ we receive a better salvation than those who come after death by sight, and not by faith, as we do avoid any of Gods corrections, but I wish some ministries would arise and do the works of God and preach the correct Gospel!
For example, I think Focus on the family does a lot of good in dealing with issues of this life (though still no hope for most after death) so what should are position be in regards to most of Christendom?
Ray Replies]
Dear Douglas:
Thank you for your interest in my site.
Paul said that there were those in his day that were preaching Christ for the WRONG reasons. He nonetheless said that Christ was at least being preached to some degree.
There have been many people who have come to Jesus Christ through churches or ministries that are totally out of step with the Scriptures. Many of these people write to me and tell me that although they found Christ in this or that church or ministry, that they were unfulfilled until God showed them His real plan of salvation for all. And that's one way in which God works through His own enemies of the Cross.
You are correct in stating that it is better to come to Christ through faith now rather than through sight later. However, ALL BELIEVERS are still corrected and chastised by God. Hebrews explains this in some detail:
"And you have been oblivious of the entreaty which is arguing with you as with sons: My son, do not disdain the DISCIPLINE of the Lord, Nor yet faint when being EXPOSED by Him. For whom the Lord is loving He is DISCIPLINING, Yet He is SCOURGING [that is a severe beating, but used here to show the severity of God's actions to purge us of sin and carnality] EVERY SON to whom He is assenting." (Heb. 12:5-6).
This chapter ends by informing us that, "Our God is also a CONSUMING FIRE." Paul tells us more about that spiritual consuming fire of God in I Cor. 3:14,
"If anyone's work will be remaining which he builds on it, he will get wages. If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire."
As Paul also said,
"It is through MUCH TRIBULATION that we enter into the Kingdom of the Heavens."
Keep the faith! God be with you!
Ray
cjwood:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on December 30, 2010, 01:08:30 PM ---
As to the guests coming to this website, any good Christian, especially a hellfire and brimstone bible thumper, cannot help but be offended by anything they read on the BT website. Are there any of Ray's writings that would not offend a religious person?
--- End quote ---
john, this statement i've bolded is almost exactly what i thought when i read what marques and craig both said about our being concerned over running off, or offending, any guests because of things we have posted concerning the churches.
it is true there are some guests who will join the forum first, without reading any of ray's papers, and may see our posts before they have any idea of what ray is teaching by the Spirit of God. but, if guests can be easily offended by the words we speak from our hearts concerning the false teaching by the leaders of the churches, expecting us to be above saying anything they consider negative, they will be horribly offended when/if they read the truths ray has been expounding on. i believe if some guest(s) might never get past any offending post by a forum member, and thereby never pursue the BT website any further, well, then that too is where God the Father has them in their lives.
i believe that one can speak about the church leaders' deceptions, without it being an attack on the leader personally, or on the people innocently sitting in the pews attending church. i also believe this is what the earlier posts on this thread were about, before it went in a whole other direction about previous posts being puffed up or on a high horse or about forgetting we sat in those same churches, about being prideful or any other such adjectives. i don't believe at all that anyone who posted on this thread has forgotten that they too once sat in a church, listening to the preachers and believing what was spoken.
in my own humble opinion, if allowed to give it, i just can't see Jesus Christ being so concerned, to the point of berating some of His own apostles, for their saying anything amongst each other about the lies He exposed which were spoken and taught by the leaders/teachers in the temples. and His reason for the berating being, because someone listening in on their conversation may attend the temple and be confused or offended by the apostles' discussion. i may be very wrong on this, but, i don't see where Jesus Christ was so concerned that someone who may attend the synagogue was around and listening in when He lit into the pharisees and other leaders of the synagogue, that He held back from speaking the Truth.
i know for sure, and not just my opinion, that ALL we do and say, whether in person or online, should be done out of love, and with the mind of Christ.
claudia
indianabob:
Good morning ALL,
40 replies from various members of the future Family of God, all offered in love.
This thread and its responses reminds me so much of a friendly family gathering at a
summer homecoming where everyone is listening carefully to hear the views and sincere
feelings of one another. Everyone taking their turn and all being aware of the little children
playing at our feet who may overhear our remarks and learn from them.
Thank you all for sharing and for using well the language of true Godly love.
Bob
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: cjwood on December 31, 2010, 01:58:08 AM ---in my own humble opinion, if allowed to give it, i just can't see Jesus Christ being so concerned, to the point of berating some of His own apostles, for their saying anything amongst each other about the lies He exposed which were spoken and taught by the leaders/teachers in the temples.
--- End quote ---
Claudia,
I actually used to think and feel the same way as you and John. Any member of the forum for the last 3 years knows that I've said many sharp comments on this subject and others when standing up for the Truth.
But, a very wise member of the forum reminded me that this forum is not all about me:
Matt 18:6, Mark 9:42, & Luke 17:2 whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
And as mentioned, the members of the church and some of their leaders, are babes in the spirit. They only handle the milk, not the meat. We've had members who were called from their leader positions in church. Not everyone called is sitting in the pews. Craig mentioned that the church members become guilty by association, and though that may only 'appear' that way from the outside, here is what Paul mentions about how we present ourselves or 'appear' to others:
1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
Also, Christ saved his sharpest derision for the Jewish leaders who KNEW better. Most of the billions of Christians on this earth (including many pastors, priests, ministers, etc.) don't know any better. Christ likened them to the blind leading the blind...no one walks around intentionally blinded, circumstances completely out of their control have made them blind. We understand this in the physical sense but the same applies spiritually as well.
I am glad this subject came up however, as it has been a needed discussion for some time.
Marques
One other note from Paul:
Rom 11:18 ...do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you
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