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Kat:
Matt 18:6, Mark 9:42, & Luke 17:2 whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Thanks Marques for bringing out that very significant Scripture. I've been following this thread and actually can relate to both sides. Yes the church teaches manmade doctrines and heresy, we know this all so well because we were once there. BUT we also still have family and friends there and that is where the yet to be called out believers still are. So we have to be very careful how we speak, because at any time we do not know who "these little ones" are and could be here. Someone starting to read Rays articles and having their eyes opened are still in a delicate state of learning, certainly we would not want to be responsible for a single one of them having a setback or worse yet deciding maybe this is not for them.
I think we have only been given the mission, as Ray has, to expose those who contradict in a very limited way, if at all. If we ever have a time to speak out against the church, even then we should be careful, as we certainly are not filled with wisdom, to use in our words as Christ was.
Mat 10:16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
DougE6:
I think we have only been given the mission, as Ray has, to expose those who contradict in a very limited way, if at all. If we ever have a time to speak out against the church, even then we should be careful, as we certainly are not filled with wisdom, to use in our words as Christ was.
I think that is a very interesting statement. Ray clearly has been equipped to do that very mission very well, to expose those who contradict. Do we then assume that is our mission too? Do we have the wisdom, and the mandate to do so? I think it is very tempting to feel spiritually superior over our lesser enlightened brothers and sisters. But are we really superior, just because God has granted us this knowledge, this understanding? What if their works done from love are far better than ours? Are we really superior?
What about telling people who have no church knowledge at all, about Jesus? Are we only to go to the already churched?
Why can't we ever preach milk? The apostle Paul did, he says so himself, to the Corinthians. He could not give them strong meat, because they were yet too carnal! But that did not stop him from giving them something! Why do we feel we only have to be strong meat preachers? Why cant we tailor our approach, depending on too whom we speak. Christ certainly did. I would LOVE to see some with this greater understanding actually go out and evngelize or do some of the difficult works those still in Babylon do, even if they are motivated partially to rescue people from the misbelief of eternal torment. They still are demonstrating that they care. I am very thankful that some Sunday School teacher aquainted me with Jesus 40 years ago. God may have graciously given me more understanding since, but that was the beginning, and I am grateful for that.
Kat:
Hi Doug,
I think maybe you are thinking that we should try to spread this truth and witness. Here are a couple of emails concerning this.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,245.0.html ----
I never said that you couldn't discuss your faith with others (in a store, on the street, wherever). But there is a quantum leap from talking to something in a coffee shop and TAKING THE GOSPEL TO ALL NATIONS!
The "ye" of Jesus' declaration of talking the gospel to all nations, was to His eleven apostles ONLY. And the second half of Matt. 28:19 is not even Scripture. It was added by the Catholic Church hundreds of years after the apostles. Jesus did NOT command Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna, and "many others" (Luke 8:3), to "teach all nations." Yet they supported Jesus' ministry.
v
If you read Paul's epistles, you will see that Paul cautioned about "laying hands on anyone too quickly" lest they be lifted up with pride, etc. I likewise caution people all the time about trying to "take on the religious establishment" immediately after learning a few Scriptural Truths. They usually fall flat on their face with shame, and the opponents eat them for lunch. I won't tell you what you should do, Jeremy, I can only caution you.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2537.0.html -----
You will never, ever, ever win someone over by a clever argument with the Scriptures. There are two reason why I do this and you shouldn't: [1] I am being a witness AGAINST all the heretics that attack me and the Truths of God, and [2] my answers to their foolish and unscriptural arguments are a great teaching tool for all those who read our site and who visit our Forum.
But in my private life, I do not try to convert, convince, change, etc., my neighbors and acquaintences. I will tell them the truth about God and the Scriptures, but I do not make a pest of myself. If and when people ask you, give them only as much as then need and are willing to accept. If they desire more, they will come back.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,222.0.html ------
God called me to do what I do.
If you feel that God is calling you to be a teacher, then be a teacher. I cannot tell you how to approach strangers with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Quite frankly, one's actions and deeds speak more for your standing with God than do your words. Peter said to be ready always to give an answer to them that "ask."
I do not have a "Thus saith the Lord" regarding what you should do in your life as far as being a teacher, minister, etc. It has been my experience, however, that most who want to teach do not have the ability from God to teach. But I am not there to witness your abilities. This one is between you and God, Jeremy.
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Hi John,
--- Quote ---However, on the BT website, I feel free, in that here there are others with like minded understanding. I feel I can let my guard down. I can read and discuss things that I couldn't discuss among the general public. Among fellow mutants, I can speak openly.
--- End quote ---
This is the way I feel and enjoy this fellowship that we have here.
--- Quote ---If I am not to offend anyone who may read this website, then I need to keep silent, like I do in everyday life, because I perceive that what I believe is offensive to the majority of people. I have no desire to offend people just for the heck of it.
--- End quote ---
It's not that we should not speak these truths because that will offend the church goers that might be here, we should just be mindful of others when we speak.
--- Quote --- In the future, I would like to know how the Father decides whom He calls. Is it totally random? A flip of a spiritual coin?
--- End quote ---
The Elect were to be chosen before they were even born.
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
2Ti 1:9 who did save us, and did call with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages,
Even before those that are chosen have their eyes opened I think they are given a certain path to walk that will prepare them for the time when their eyes are opened.
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
v. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
So it's ordained for the Elect to be who they are. But we can not get too haughty with this, because we do not know for sure if we are a true Elect (wheat oppose to a tare) until the resurrection.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---It's not that we should not speak these truths because that will offend the church goers that might be here, we should just be mindful of others when we speak.
--- End quote ---
Tit 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
Peace...Mark
walt123:
Hello to all ,and thanks for this tread Craig
After reading all the replies,and learning much from fellow members, and in my opinion it would be good to be mindfull of
1cor 13:1-13 when and how we represent ourselves.
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 (New Living Translation)
1 Corinthians 13
Love Is the Greatest
1 If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. 3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;[a] but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8 Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! 9 Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! 10 But when full understanding comes, these partial things will become useless.
11 When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a cloudy mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[c] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
13 Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.
Walt.
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