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Author Topic: Anyone Go here?  (Read 12018 times)

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DougE6

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2010, 05:07:19 PM »

Hello Kat
you are correct in that I think we should spread truth and witness.  Did not Paul say "Rom 10:14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?  His ministry was to take the gospel to all the gentiles.  Of course Paul understood the fullness of this Gospel.  He wrote so many of the verses we love that speak of the full redemptive plan of God! Paul could not be shut up! I am not saying that the full truths must always be preached to everyone all the time.  I am not saying go out and dispute with others. But my goodness, the Love and righteousness that it takes to TRULY become an overcomer...it is not how well we can debate it is how we are showing the Love of Christ in our thoughts, actions, and lives.

Thank you Walt for that timely reminder of Love. Love is greater than knowledge! It says in that very passage you quoted, special knowledge will become useless.  Yes Yes that is why I am so set on how our love is being proven and not on what you know!

Do I see some contradictions? Yes I do, in that, the ones who have arrived, in that we know that God will save all, that we know there is no eternal hell, that we know we must overcome the flesh, the world and the devil, to make the first resurrection, that we WILL if we are of the Elect...we should be the salt of the earth so that all men would see our good works and give God praise for it!  It is wonderful to give of yourself and your substance to help others. Why is so little of service or reaching out ever talked about or emphasized? This message is so powerful.. It calls one to repentance, to righteousness, and it shows God to be fair and loving. Why not preach it?

It is wonderful to expose those who contradict.  It has been done, and masterfully. I read and reread all the time.  But is that the only point? Is this a great work of God? Many great works start  based on correcting error, but now what?  Show ME the MONEY!! taking these beautiful and profound truths, PROVE them by letting us be changed... and not hiding them under a rock or a bushel, but taking them to the world in our actions, in our words and deeds, this seems to be the whole thrust of the gospel.  Please forgive my exuberance, but I think if (I say if rhetorically) IF we are converted, if we do understand, then our LOVE should exceed that of Babylon, and I dont mean in doctrine, I mean in real life actions.
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judith collier

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2010, 10:27:19 PM »

DougE6, sounds good to me. I don't know how one can be full of god's love and not act. Or to do an act one doesn't want to do but because of love of God they do it. But I think some are afraid of getting into pride doing good works. If we know Christ is in us and "THEM" then I mostly feel I am serving Christ. Without that knowledge there would be some I would leave behind without that drink of water given them. I don't worry about it because it is natural to like some more than others. It is supernatural to love them all.
What helps me is the thought that God loves them and I try to do the best i can, especially if a person has ongoing needs. I am fully aware of the beast within and that feeling of pride but after many many yrs. when one has died somewhat to themselves it is easy to spot it rearing it's ugly head.
If a person is aware of their ego (their false self, the beast) and how it operates then one will not take on too much like the ego would have them do. There are no fantasies or carnal imaginations that can't be spotted after awhile when the Holy Spirit works in you.
Jesus said the most important commandment was to love God and love our neighbor, with God's help I do a bit here and there.  Just a fact anymore, more like a good habit but nothing to write home about! They usually help me learn more of the depths of that ugly creature residing within, especially when they are not thankful and appreciative. God bless them. Judy
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DougE6

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2011, 04:46:43 AM »


hello John from Kentucky

I agree with everything you said but I don't see your conclusion!  :) Funny how that can be, eh? We can agree on those facts but completely see a different response. You are right that it is not Gods plan to save everyone now, and yes, only He is capable of doing it.  And yes he will save everyone eventually, and yes the major harvest will take place in the next age. Your illustration of the feasts is spot on.

But we are not privy to whom God is calling now.  None of us know the particulars or the future. At all.  And this is intentional on God's part. And He is calling and choosing some now. And God has intentionally not told us who and when and how many He is calling and choosing.  And if we think we can put a number on it, and decide that it is such a small number that we can be justified in not trying our best for Him now, I think that is not good thinking. Please excuse my frankness.

I want to do my very best! I want to hear Well done my good and faithful servant. I want to gain 2 talents from the two talents given, or 1 talent from the one talent given, or 10 talents from the 10 talents given.  I do not want to hear, "you wicked and slothful servant, you knew I was a demanding taskmaster and you did nothing to gain interest on what I gave you.  You hid your talent and did nothing.  Therefore I will take from you what I gave you and give it to the ones who were faithful and worked hard to gain a good return on what I gave.

Jesus was obedient to the uttermost and so should we be.  He gave his all.  That is the requirement to sit on the throne with Him. The apostle Paul gave his all.  He said he fought the good fight.  What a great thing to be able to say at the end of your life.  DO NOT HIDE behind what you think is the plan of God to excuse you not going out and reaping a harvest. That is what your arguement seems to be saying to me.  Gaining the first resurrection and Jesus praise and throne is a pearl of great price to be sought after, to be prized above all things.  I believe doing the works of God means that we will be reaching out to others, to gain a harvest.  If you do this, I believe God will give the increase.  An olympic athlete, trains really hard.  God may have fore ordained the gold medal, but the path to it involves a lot of work. If you are doing the work, it is because God has a harvest for you to reap. Yes God causes it. But He does not take away the hard work and faith involved to reach the objective, to win the race.
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cjwood

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2011, 06:11:08 AM »

Quote from: Kat link=topic=12633.msg110816#msg110816 date=1293819416


[quote
However, on the BT website, I feel free, in that here there are others with like minded understanding.  I feel I can let my guard down.  I can read and discuss things that I couldn't discuss among the general public.  Among fellow mutants, I can speak openly.


Quote
If I am not to offend anyone who may read this website, then I need to keep silent, like I do in everyday life, because I perceive that what I believe is offensive to the majority of people.  I have no desire to offend people just for the heck of it.

It's not that we should not speak these truths because that will offend the church goers that might be here, we should just be mindful of others when we speak.



these statements by john, and the last one by kat, really hit home for me.  there have actually been many other statements made by members on this thread that have hit home for me, or hit me over the head.  ;)

i am having much trouble of late, trying to figure out how we on this forum can honestly discuss the milk, or meat, of the scriptures, without someone else being offended by our words, whether that someone be a guest, newbie, longtime member, or moderator.  

the statement above by kat especially hit hard, because i know that personally i write, and edit, and reread, and think a little bit longer about the subject, and then write some more/edit and reread, before i ever finally post a comment because i am always being mindful of the others who will read my words.  i don't believe anyone who has posted on this thread, especially those at the beginning of this discussion, are not also always considering those who will be reading the things they say.  

claudia


« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 06:16:51 AM by cjwood »
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Kat

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2011, 12:33:00 PM »


Hi Claudia,

I think you are a very considerate person when posting  :) What I meant about being mindful of others, is just that harsh comments rarely help, but more often hurt. Our words vibrate out and touch many people that come here and a post remains and will continue to touch people. So I feel that there is always a way to make comments that are encouraging and helpful without being harsh, rude, sharp, callous or mean, even when talking about the church. This is just the way I think.

Hi Doug,

Quote
I believe doing the works of God means that we will be reaching out to others, to gain a harvest.  If you do this, I believe God will give the increase.


Yes there must be works or fruits of the spirit, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control (Gal 5:22-23). I believe that these are reflected by His spirit indwelling towards all those we come in contact with. It is not so much intentionally trying to share this truth with others as much as it is in showing love through our words and actions at all times. This to me is how you let your light shine and not hide it under a basket, people will see the truth in you, because it is revealed in the way you live. We are given constant opportunities to let our light shine in all the little everyday way we interact with family and people we associate with at work or even the cashier at the store.

If you see what I'm saying, our works are to do good/love others, by our attitude towards all people all the time.

Gal 6:9  And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.
v. 10  Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.

But I am not saying that we should not share this truth with anybody if the opportunity arises. Surely if God sends someone to us with questions that we can answer with this truth, it is a blessing to be able to share it.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 01:18:45 PM by Kat »
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Marky Mark

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2011, 12:50:30 PM »

Quote
Jesus is the Annointed One of the Father to save mankind.  Speaking for myself, I can see the great evil and sin within me.  I cannot even save myself.  How can I possibly save or teach others?


What say Scripture?


Eph 1:18  The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

 Neh 9:27 and You give them into the hand of their adversaries, and they distress them, and in the time of their distress they cry unto You, and You, from the heavens, do hear, and, according to Your abundant mercies, do give to them saviours, and they save them out of the hand of their adversaries

Oba 1:21  And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

1Jn 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 
Joh 20:21  Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
 
Php 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Joh 10:34  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Mat 10:40  He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

 Luk 10:16  He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

  1Jn 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1Jn 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.



Peace...Mark
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DougE6

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2011, 02:02:26 PM »

Hello John

2Co 5:20  Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

 It is not that God could not save the world without us, it is that God chooses to save mankind through our help!  We are ambassadors, representatives, like Christ was!  Obviously, we are not as good at the job as Jesus was, but we can always get better and better because we have Christ in us!  Notice the word IMPLORE? Implore means to make an appeal in supplication, to 2. To beg for urgently; entreat. To make an earnest appeal

I get the impression that in Paul's evangelism he did whatever he could to win others...

1Co 9:20  To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
1Co 9:21  To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1Co 9:22  To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
1Co 9:23  I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.
1Co 9:24  Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.


I want to win the prize.  I would implore you  :) to leave that attitude that those in the first resurrection are so  predetermined that you should not seek the high calling, the heavenward calling in Christ Jesus.  I do  not think it is God intent at all that we should not seek this because "it is futile to even want to be in the first resurrection" John, God forbid that you should feel that way! Please don't!

You know how Ray says how He begs God for his insights? How if you want the blessings of God, you need to  want them with all your heart?
Jer 29:13  You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Please please seek him with all your heart and strength and might.  Covet the First resurrection.  Make it the prize that you are willing to sacrifice for.  Gain Christ and lose the world.  Mar 12:30  And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'

You remind me of this I HOPE FOR YOU THAT THIS WILL BE THE CASE>>>>Luk 14:8  "When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him,
Luk 14:9  and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this person,' and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place.
Luk 14:10  But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, 'Friend, move up higher.' Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you.
Luk 14:11  For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

 I hope your accurate appraisal and all to human appraisal of your self has humbled you and Jesus at the end will beckon you to a position at His marriage Supper far better than you expect, due to what you see in yourself.  But be that as it  may, EARNESTLY SEEK THE THINGS OF GOD< BEG HIM FOR HIS TREASURES INCLUDING TO BE PART OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION
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Kat

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2011, 03:22:36 PM »


Hi doug,

I think I understand where you are coming from. But it is not up to us to decide if we will be in the first resurrection/marriage Supper or do good works or do anything at all, because we have no free-will. Don't you know many men have spent their whole life seeking the truth and never found it? It is only by God's grace that any of us know any truth at all.

Matt 13:16  But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
v. 17  for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

It's all up to God what we know and when we know it and if we will be used to share this with others. Now we do have a will/desires and make choices, but even those are ultimately caused by Him.

Here is an excerpt from an email.

http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm -----------

You state: "If God determines our footsteps. . .we have no will." Yes we do. And God even CAUSES our wills to come in line with His. Don't you ever pray: "Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven"?  "Not MY will, but THEY will be done"? If our wills are FREE FROM BEING FORCED OR CAUSED OR MADE to do anything, we couldn't even pray these words. That WHY we work out our own salvation in FEAR AND TREMBLING. Because we, of ourselves, CAN DO NOTHING, as Jesus plainly told us. It is a fearful thing to realize that we can do NOTHING on our own. We only THINK that we can. And if that is what we think then we are fools!

"So that, my beloved, according as you always obey, not as in my presence only, but now much rather in my absence, with fear and trembling, be carrying your own salvation into effect, FOR IT IS GOD Who is OPERATING IN YOU TO WILL as well as to work for the sake of His delight" (Phil. 2:12-13).

Even the very "words" that Paul is here speaking to the Philippians are inspired OF GOD to CAUSE these people (and us) to RESPOND to his admonition. Words are powerful. Words CAUSE THINGS TO HAPPEN.  That's why God uses words:

"The WORD of God is LIVING and OPERATIVE, and KEEN above any two-edged sword, and PENETRATING up to the parting of soul and spirit... and is a JUDGE of the sentiments and THOUGHTS OF THE HEART" (Heb. 4:12).
v
And so, if all is of God (the good and bad), why does He hold us accountable for our sins and deeds? This time I will let Paul answer:

"For this selfsame thing I rouse you up, so that I should be displaying in you [Pharaoh] My power, and so that My name should be published in the entire earth. Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening. You will be PROTESTING to me, then, 'Why, then is He [God] STILL BLAMING [us for our sins]? for who has WITHSTOOD HIS INTENTION?'" Paul answers this way: "O man! WHO ARE YOU, TO BE SURE, WHO ARE ANSWERING AGAIN TO GOD? That which is molded [that's us] WILL NOT PROTEST TO THE MOLDER, 'Why do you make me thus [a sinner unable and unwilling by my own fabled 'free will' to ever do what is right]?' Or has not the potter [God] the right over the clay [us mortals] out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?" (Rom. 9:17-21).
----------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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DougE6

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2011, 07:00:04 PM »

Yes,  NONE of us know tomorrow. None of us know Gods plan for tomorrow. So we have to do our best every moment of every day.  We do not know which of our plans, if any, will succeed.  This is very important. Because we do not know tomorrow we have to do our best to achieve any desired outcome, even if it is Gods plan purpose will and intention to bring it about!!!!  The only reason the gold medalist wins the gold medal that God had already long ago fore ordained, is that the drive, the hard work, the effort, the practice, the circumstance was ALL there to MAKE it happen. If any of those causes were not present, NO gold medal.  SO God causes all those things, to make it happen.

 Yes, in the big picture it is all of God.  God creates the drive to work hard, and the acumen to do what others fall short.  But we are unaware of his influences.  And God PROVIDES CAUSES like a coach that helps keep the athlete on track, to shore up flagging spirit when necessary, to be an encouragement to make it happen!

There is no way that John will EVER be an overcomer if you have the attitude that it is useless to try!!!!  Let us be the COACH for one another! Does that make sense? Donít let this free will understanding becoming a hindrance.  Do not let this be. For all intents and purposes, we live our lives doing our best in every situation.  That is why we need to pray.  We need to pray so God will bring about these circumstances and allow us to become the Overcomers.

I am trying to implore all, including John, that a fatalistic attitude is NOT the correct response to our understanding of no free will.  The entire New Testament was written for our admonition to become Overcomers, not to become discouraged because we think we are not included.
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prarrydog

  • Guest
Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2011, 08:02:37 PM »

Claudia, for the time I have been reading on this forum and for what I know you, I think you are a very considerate person when posting  too. (and also when sharing)
      


Craig, I think you must see all this coming when making this kind of post, didn't you?


I will give just another perspective, regarding the first posts and the main one, I can also kind of see it on a different way. If we are to care so much for the ones that are starting to read and coming little by little out of the church system. This kind of main post. Could give them some incentive to somehow make it harder for them to come out, and maybe for whatever reason in their mind justify certain wrong doctrines with good deeds, or something of the alike.

However, on the other side this is a forum to discuss this kind of topics, and here is our environment to be able to tell what we silent on other environments that we have to deal with, places where nobody really cares (or get scared) of our points regarding this kind of topics.

And about this pastor making such a good deeds, good for him.
I few days ago I made a post regarding profit, and it got some very good replays, talking about what is common for rich and poor alike.    
Still I agree with you Craig, on levels of evil, the actions of this pastor are much less evil than the spiritual drug addicts of The Megachurches.


Moises






15 minutes on their website will show you that they are no different than any other of the churches.  This thread should not have been started.  Some here are concerned about offending others however I believe posting a link to an article about a false church with the following statement "Looks like this church is starting to get it?  I wonder what they are really like?" should be much more offensive to us for the sake of new members and guests.  My opinion is this thread should be deleted. 

p.s.  Marques...You quoted this verse earlier

Matt 18:6, Mark 9:42, & Luke 17:2  whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

however I don't believe it applies here as this church obviously does not believe in the real Jesus.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

with love
Scott
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2011, 09:40:19 PM »


Hi Doug,

Quote
None of us know Gods plan for tomorrow. So we have to do our best every moment of every day.  We do not know which of our plans, if any, will succeed.  This is very important. Because we do not know tomorrow we have to do our best to achieve any desired outcome, even if it is Gods plan purpose will and intention to bring it about!!!!


I couldn't agree more. I do believe that God will cause us to have an all consumming desire for this truth, if we are to endure to the end. The narrow path is not an easy way to go, and we have to be determined to overcome every obstacle that we meet. So His spirit that is indwelling will cause us to seek this truth constantly.

Eph 4:1-3  I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Php 2:12  ...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
v.13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

I do believe that the fellowship and encouragement at this forum is a great help to us. It helps us to realize we are not alone in this world struggling to overcome, but there are others and we can work at it together.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 09:54:52 PM by Kat »
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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2011, 10:36:10 PM »

15 minutes on their website will show you that they are no different than any other of the churches.  This thread should not have been started.  Some here are concerned about offending others however I believe posting a link to an article about a false church with the following statement "Looks like this church is starting to get it?  I wonder what they are really like?" should be much more offensive to us for the sake of new members and guests.  My opinion is this thread should be deleted. 

p.s.  Marques...You quoted this verse earlier

Matt 18:6, Mark 9:42, & Luke 17:2  whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

however I don't believe it applies here as this church obviously does not believe in the real Jesus.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

with love
Scott


Scott,

Everyone has to start somewhere in terms of getting an understanding of God. And God calls people into a church to give them that start. No one believes in the 'real Jesus' when they first open their bibles. That takes time, and again, we all have to start somewhere.

All Craig was pointing out is, that he felt this church may be getting that start. He entitled to his opinion, as are you. I have enjoyed this thread because I believe it helped address a perception that many on the forum have regarding the church. We should remember that God calls His Elect from the church and that is where He calls us from. It's not a longing to go back but a reminder that we should not forget that we were as blind as they were in times past. Just a humble reminder, that's all.


Marques
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Ninny

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2011, 10:43:34 PM »

Scott,
I'm sorry.. Please don't take all of what I said to be a personal attack!!
I didn't mean to start the new year out ugly....
Kathy :(
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Ninny

  • Guest
Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2011, 12:18:24 AM »

I removed the reply I had put up earlier due to the fact that it felt like a personal attack on Scott and that is not the way of love...so I hope anyone who read that didn't feel the ugliness I felt after having posted it!
Everyone please have a happy and love-filled new year!
Sorry...
Kathy  :)
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prarrydog

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2011, 12:35:32 AM »

marques

Nice post. I understand what you are saying. I will drop it.

Kathy

No worries. Maybe I should be a little more careful with my word choice. I will work on that. You don't know me well but let me assure you that I do not think I am better than anyone else.  I think I may have been unclear as to what I was trying to say.  I was in no way trying to say I was above anyone. Have a good night.

P.s.  It did not feel like a personal attack to me. It felt like a passionate response. I have been known to throw a few of those out myself.i
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Ninny

  • Guest
Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2011, 01:03:12 AM »

Thank you, Scott...I guess we do get passionate at times!!  :o
Kathy ;)
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Terry

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2011, 12:37:19 PM »

This has been a great topic for us all regardless of our opinion at the start i for one have been helped through all of the replies, all is of God.
  I was sitting on the carport afew months ago having a refreshment and started thinking about how i could be a better person do more for the Lord if you will because like John theres nothing good in me nothing except the Lord done it.
I do however see some sinful things gradually passing away and i hardly even noticed it as it was happening but the thing is it had to be God doing the work for there is nothing good of myself and as i sat there this is what i felt in my spirit,
When Jesus was on the cross and he said it is finished i started to see what that meant he done it all theres nothing i can do to add to it,and also i felt this as a back up i guess, as John said in his reply.

Remember where Jesus said, "Come unto me you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.  For my yoke is easy and My burden is light."  Jesus does the work.  There is great peace and joy in relying totally upon God for everything.  God does it all.

Once in my life I tried to be good and do good.  I fell flat on my face.  It didn't work out.  Why?  Because there is no good in me.  Only when God showed me my true nature, and that I must rely upon Him and trust Him for everything did I find peace and happiness.
,
This is just what God gave me in my spirit,

Come unto me you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest.  Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.  For my yoke is easy and My burden is light."  Jesus does the work.  There is great peace and joy in relying totally upon God for everything.  God does it all.
Thanks John for posting this its nothing but a comformation for me and ever since i started to believed this my burdens are truely very light, so even before God called me in the church while i was in the church and when he called me out of the church and where i am right now today as i try to type is where God wants me and where i will be in the ressurection will be up to God and i'm happy with that also i truly feel FREE,and so even with all this world hits me with daily and believe me its plenty i just try and remember these words(For my yoke is easy and My burden is light."  )

Thanks All
Terry
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Terry

Samson

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2011, 12:51:24 PM »

Yes,  NONE of us know tomorrow. None of us know Gods plan for tomorrow. So we have to do our best every moment of every day.  We do not know which of our plans, if any, will succeed.  This is very important. Because we do not know tomorrow we have to do our best to achieve any desired outcome, even if it is Gods plan purpose will and intention to bring it about!!!!  The only reason the gold medalist wins the gold medal that God had already long ago fore ordained, is that the drive, the hard work, the effort, the practice, the circumstance was ALL there to MAKE it happen. If any of those causes were not present, NO gold medal.  SO God causes all those things, to make it happen.

 Yes, in the big picture it is all of God.  God creates the drive to work hard, and the acumen to do what others fall short.  But we are unaware of his influences.  And God PROVIDES CAUSES like a coach that helps keep the athlete on track, to shore up flagging spirit when necessary, to be an encouragement to make it happen!

There is no way that John will EVER be an overcomer if you have the attitude that it is useless to try!!!!  Let us be the COACH for one another! Does that make sense? Donít let this free will understanding becoming a hindrance.  Do not let this be. For all intents and purposes, we live our lives doing our best in every situation.  That is why we need to pray.  We need to pray so God will bring about these circumstances and allow us to become the Overcomers.

I am trying to implore all, including John, that a fatalistic attitude is NOT the correct response to our understanding of no free will.  The entire New Testament was written for our admonition to become Overcomers, not to become discouraged because we think we are not included.



Hi Doug,

I've been following this Thread since it's inception and wasn't inclined to comment until reading Your Post above. Many perspectives from a variety of angles were shared, but some of the points you share in the first half of the above Post are from a perspective that I considered sharing. Now that You have brought these points to this Thread, I'd like to provide a few additional points along this line.

It's True that All the CAUSES in each of Our individual lives are Predestined down to the smallest details and those particular CAUSES will lead to the only possible CHOICE We could have made in each and every situation. However, as You bring out, We don't know What Tomorrow will bring and What specific CAUSES God has in store for us, even One Hour from Now.

To add to this, Ray has explained the distinction between RESPONSIBILITY(God's responsible for everything regarding His Creation) and Our being ACCOUNTABLE for Our Thoughts, Words and Actions; Romans. 14:12; Matthew. 12:36,37. We are Accountable for Our Choices, because We desire to make them. We are Accountable for each and every Sin We commit, because We desire to commit them, even though there are CAUSES that lead to these Sinful Choices. Below, I included a few excerpts from Ray's material regarding RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY. I think that this Email, Copied and Pasted below, covers this very well from all angles. I only included Ray's Response and will highlight certain points that emphasize what I mean.

Dear Whirlwind:

You are not understanding this subject and the principle behind it. You ask: "Is it man making the choices or is it God's predestination of things?"  It is BOTH.  Listen:  God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE.  That's it. That's all there is to it.  That IS the principle. That IS the Truth.  That IS what the Bible teaches.  It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices."  You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation.  It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."

I hardly know what else to tell you.  God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams.  They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God.  So then we don't make choices, right?  NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES.  It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see.  Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED.  And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that?  He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.

So, does God FORCE EVIL MEN TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS?  Well, does He?  Does God being Sovereign prove that God forces evil men to rape little girls?  That's what evil theologians deduce from the truth of no free will.  They turn the Sovereignty of God into one of the biggest evils in the universe. If God is Sovereign, then God must be EVIL, because there is so much evil in the world, and God is in control of all things, right?  Wrong, wrong, wrong!  Man makes all his own choices. Just because they are CAUSED does not mean that he does not make them.  He is, in fact, CAUSED TO MAKE HIS CHOICES. But God does not directly do this. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things.  And who created the Devil?  That's right, that One Who is Sovereign and in charge of all things.  Evil men like raping just like evil theologians like stealing widow's social security money.  God doesn't make them do it--THEY LIKE TO DO IT.  They volunteer with little outside influence.  God made humanity this way. He created them spiritually weak.  Eve couldn't help but sin.  God has a good purpose and God will straighten it all out in the end.

I guess I could just keep writing and writing and writing and one day someone will say................OHHHHHH, now I get it.  Maybe today is your day. I'm pulling for ya!!!

God be with you,

Ray

A few points gleaned from Ray's Response in the above Email.

1) But God doesn't do this directly. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things.

2) Evil Men like Raping just like Evil Theologians like stealing widows Social Security Money. God doesn't make them do it, THEY LIKE TO DO IT. They Volunteer with little outside influence,

  Anyway, I thought that this Email response covered this nicely.

                           Kind Regards, Samson.


« Last Edit: January 02, 2011, 04:09:47 PM by Samson »
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Phil3:10

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2011, 03:30:32 PM »

Craig and all,
I looked at the website and read the Pastor's article twice. It made me wonder how much real sacrifice he had personally made. I examined my thinking carefully but did come to the conclusion that any sacrifice for the right reasons is CHRIST honoring. I am certain that I would not agree with the theology of this church, but I do feel that the aid they offer is of much benefit to those in need and that GOD has HIS hand in all matters. I do pray that this serves as an example to other churches to move in the direction of sacrifice for others.
I still contribute to the Benevolence Fund at my wife's church knowing that it does aid those with real needs. I am also thankful for my time in the institutional, organized, denominational system which led me to really search for the truths I found in Ray Smith's teachings. I will always believe that all is of GOD.
Phil3:10
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grapehound

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Re: Anyone Go here?
« Reply #59 on: January 03, 2011, 08:37:51 AM »

God will reward what is done in secret.
Why all the publicity?
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