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Ninny:
Thank you, Scott...I guess we do get passionate at times!! :o
Kathy ;)
Terry:
This has been a great topic for us all regardless of our opinion at the start i for one have been helped through all of the replies, all is of God.
I was sitting on the carport afew months ago having a refreshment and started thinking about how i could be a better person do more for the Lord if you will because like John theres nothing good in me nothing except the Lord done it.
I do however see some sinful things gradually passing away and i hardly even noticed it as it was happening but the thing is it had to be God doing the work for there is nothing good of myself and as i sat there this is what i felt in my spirit,
When Jesus was on the cross and he said it is finished i started to see what that meant he done it all theres nothing i can do to add to it,and also i felt this as a back up i guess, as John said in his reply.
Remember where Jesus said, "Come unto me you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and My burden is light." Jesus does the work. There is great peace and joy in relying totally upon God for everything. God does it all.
Once in my life I tried to be good and do good. I fell flat on my face. It didn't work out. Why? Because there is no good in me. Only when God showed me my true nature, and that I must rely upon Him and trust Him for everything did I find peace and happiness.,
This is just what God gave me in my spirit,
Come unto me you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and My burden is light." Jesus does the work. There is great peace and joy in relying totally upon God for everything. God does it all.
Thanks John for posting this its nothing but a comformation for me and ever since i started to believed this my burdens are truely very light, so even before God called me in the church while i was in the church and when he called me out of the church and where i am right now today as i try to type is where God wants me and where i will be in the ressurection will be up to God and i'm happy with that also i truly feel FREE,and so even with all this world hits me with daily and believe me its plenty i just try and remember these words(For my yoke is easy and My burden is light." )
Thanks All
Terry
Samson:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on January 01, 2011, 04:00:04 PM ---Yes, NONE of us know tomorrow. None of us know Gods plan for tomorrow. So we have to do our best every moment of every day. We do not know which of our plans, if any, will succeed. This is very important. Because we do not know tomorrow we have to do our best to achieve any desired outcome, even if it is Gods plan purpose will and intention to bring it about!!!! The only reason the gold medalist wins the gold medal that God had already long ago fore ordained, is that the drive, the hard work, the effort, the practice, the circumstance was ALL there to MAKE it happen. If any of those causes were not present, NO gold medal. SO God causes all those things, to make it happen.
Yes, in the big picture it is all of God. God creates the drive to work hard, and the acumen to do what others fall short. But we are unaware of his influences. And God PROVIDES CAUSES like a coach that helps keep the athlete on track, to shore up flagging spirit when necessary, to be an encouragement to make it happen!
There is no way that John will EVER be an overcomer if you have the attitude that it is useless to try!!!! Let us be the COACH for one another! Does that make sense? Don’t let this free will understanding becoming a hindrance. Do not let this be. For all intents and purposes, we live our lives doing our best in every situation. That is why we need to pray. We need to pray so God will bring about these circumstances and allow us to become the Overcomers.
I am trying to implore all, including John, that a fatalistic attitude is NOT the correct response to our understanding of no free will. The entire New Testament was written for our admonition to become Overcomers, not to become discouraged because we think we are not included.
--- End quote ---
Hi Doug,
I've been following this Thread since it's inception and wasn't inclined to comment until reading Your Post above. Many perspectives from a variety of angles were shared, but some of the points you share in the first half of the above Post are from a perspective that I considered sharing. Now that You have brought these points to this Thread, I'd like to provide a few additional points along this line.
It's True that All the CAUSES in each of Our individual lives are Predestined down to the smallest details and those particular CAUSES will lead to the only possible CHOICE We could have made in each and every situation. However, as You bring out, We don't know What Tomorrow will bring and What specific CAUSES God has in store for us, even One Hour from Now.
To add to this, Ray has explained the distinction between RESPONSIBILITY(God's responsible for everything regarding His Creation) and Our being ACCOUNTABLE for Our Thoughts, Words and Actions; Romans. 14:12; Matthew. 12:36,37. We are Accountable for Our Choices, because We desire to make them. We are Accountable for each and every Sin We commit, because We desire to commit them, even though there are CAUSES that lead to these Sinful Choices. Below, I included a few excerpts from Ray's material regarding RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY. I think that this Email, Copied and Pasted below, covers this very well from all angles. I only included Ray's Response and will highlight certain points that emphasize what I mean.
Dear Whirlwind:
You are not understanding this subject and the principle behind it. You ask: "Is it man making the choices or is it God's predestination of things?" It is BOTH. Listen: God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE. That's it. That's all there is to it. That IS the principle. That IS the Truth. That IS what the Bible teaches. It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices." You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation. It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."
I hardly know what else to tell you. God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams. They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God. So then we don't make choices, right? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES. It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see. Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED. And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that? He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.
So, does God FORCE EVIL MEN TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS? Well, does He? Does God being Sovereign prove that God forces evil men to rape little girls? That's what evil theologians deduce from the truth of no free will. They turn the Sovereignty of God into one of the biggest evils in the universe. If God is Sovereign, then God must be EVIL, because there is so much evil in the world, and God is in control of all things, right? Wrong, wrong, wrong! Man makes all his own choices. Just because they are CAUSED does not mean that he does not make them. He is, in fact, CAUSED TO MAKE HIS CHOICES. But God does not directly do this. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things. And who created the Devil? That's right, that One Who is Sovereign and in charge of all things. Evil men like raping just like evil theologians like stealing widow's social security money. God doesn't make them do it--THEY LIKE TO DO IT. They volunteer with little outside influence. God made humanity this way. He created them spiritually weak. Eve couldn't help but sin. God has a good purpose and God will straighten it all out in the end.
I guess I could just keep writing and writing and writing and one day someone will say................OHHHHHH, now I get it. Maybe today is your day. I'm pulling for ya!!!
God be with you,
Ray
A few points gleaned from Ray's Response in the above Email.
1) But God doesn't do this directly. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things.
2) Evil Men like Raping just like Evil Theologians like stealing widows Social Security Money. God doesn't make them do it, THEY LIKE TO DO IT. They Volunteer with little outside influence,
Anyway, I thought that this Email response covered this nicely.
Kind Regards, Samson.
Phil3:10:
Craig and all,
I looked at the website and read the Pastor's article twice. It made me wonder how much real sacrifice he had personally made. I examined my thinking carefully but did come to the conclusion that any sacrifice for the right reasons is CHRIST honoring. I am certain that I would not agree with the theology of this church, but I do feel that the aid they offer is of much benefit to those in need and that GOD has HIS hand in all matters. I do pray that this serves as an example to other churches to move in the direction of sacrifice for others.
I still contribute to the Benevolence Fund at my wife's church knowing that it does aid those with real needs. I am also thankful for my time in the institutional, organized, denominational system which led me to really search for the truths I found in Ray Smith's teachings. I will always believe that all is of GOD.
Phil3:10
grapehound:
God will reward what is done in secret.
Why all the publicity?
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