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Author Topic: did some people existed b4 adam was created?  (Read 22693 times)

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olasupo jacobs

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did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« on: January 26, 2011, 02:41:49 PM »

Please i need some clarification, I was reading this post from Kat in more of Rays teaching and came across this few lines that appear as my question above ( ray's quote in blue)

Notice that it doesn't say in chapter 2 verse 3 that there was no man on earth at this time, but rather that there was "no man to till the ground."  There were men, but they were hunters/gatherers, not farmers.  God is now going to make a more advance human to cultivate and farm the land. 

The phrase "dress it and keep it" in verse 15, is "tend and cultivate." God is teaching Adam to be a farmer. When in doubt, read a proper translation.  God did not create the animals AFTER He created Adam. Notice a proper translation from the Concordant Literal Old Testament: "And furthermore, Ieu Alueim ['the Lord God'] HAVING FORMED [yes, having ALREADY formed, millions of years in the past] all field life and every flyer of the heavens."  God is bringing to Adam the Animal species which He had already created millions of years in the past, to have Adam give names to them.  This obviously took years.  Some, such as the dinosaurs (the reptilian 'tannyin, tannyim,' of Gen. 1:21 had already been extinct for many millions of years. These were decidedly not, "great whales," as the King James erroneously translates it).

It was from this first group of humanity that Cain apparently got his wife, cities were built, etc.


the underline statements appears to lend credence to my question whether some men were in existence b4 Adam...or most likely am the one viewing it wrongly or not understanding what the message is conveying...please clear my cobwebs on this Thanks forum members
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Kat

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2011, 02:57:45 PM »


Hi Olasupo Jacobs,

This was from a resent email that was just posted http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12719.0.html

It brought out what you are asking, that yes there were humans on earth before Adam.

In Genesis 1:26 God "made" [Heb: 'asah'] male and female. In Gen. 2:6 God "formed" [Heb: 'yatsar'] Adam--two difference Hebrew words: two different formations.
Notice that it doesn't say in chapter 2 verse 3 that there was no man on earth at this time, but rather that there was "no man to till the ground."  There were men, but they were hunters/gatherers, not farmers.  God is now going to make a more advance human to cultivate and farm the land. 


So in genesis 1:26 we have the creation of the first humans. This gives credence to the scientific evidence of man being on earth a very long time before Adam. Then the Genesis 2:6 account is of God forming Adam, as Ray puts it "a more advance human," I guess to bring civilization and culture to the world.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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G. Driggs

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2011, 03:50:05 PM »

After reading all of what Ray's say's about Adam and Eve, I come to a conclusion which may need correction.

Adam and Eve are a type/shadow of Jesus and His Elect Church right? Adam and Eve were farmers and cultivators right? Does that make Jesus and His Elect Church farmers and cultivators too? Farmers and cultivators of people instead of the ground? Consider the many metaphors and parables which portray God as a farmer, and the many parables about His Elect being the workers in the fields. So does that mean the people created before Adam and Eve represent "the many" and the rest of the world that are in need of spiritual farmers and cultivators?

If I'm way off, forgive me, I didn't know.

Thanks Olasupo Jacobs, good questions. I hope you dont think I'm hijacking your thread. It just seem to be a natural question after yours.

G.Driggs
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indianabob

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2011, 05:31:54 PM »

Friends and moderators,

This is certainly a new concept for me; that there were lower species of homo sapiens on the earth before the "first" man and the "first" woman from whom all the rest of "mankind" descended.

First, it seems to me that we need quite a lot of reasoned explanation before publishing such a theory.
And second these views seem to be leaning toward supporting the theory of MACRO-EVOLUTION for which there is plenty of scientific commentary from the "Darwin" adherents.

For example, if there were homosapiens that were in appearance like Adam and Eve, did they have language skills or did they just grunt as they foraged for food. Did they build anything and form societies for protection from the animals and from other competing tribes? Or did they roam in marauding bands subduing any opposition as portrayed in "B" movies? Did they have religious superstitions or beliefs etc? I think we need to flesh out these very brief comments in house before publishing them for all the world to consider and critique.

Respectfully offered, Indiana Bob
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olasupo jacobs

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2011, 06:25:10 PM »

it is becoming more interesting...my analytical mind is beginning to ask some questions based on certain things we know hear this:
1. The scripture lends voice to The first Adam and the last Adam  figuratively referring to Adam of genesis and Jesus Christ what is the condition of those men you (or As Ray said) were created before Adam the husband of Eve who supposedly Gave birth to Cain who married one of the daughters of such men...
2. If death reign through one man supposedly the man who sinned ie Adam does that imply that those men mentioned that were before Adam sinless and doesn't need a saviour and some might think as many xtians believe they are the Nephilims( Supposed angels that left their first realm to copulate with humans) this account itself didnt come up until Noah's period of the flood.
3. Why is the genealogy of Jesus physically trace back to Adam and not those men previously created?
4. He thats born of the flesh is flesh..he thats born of the spirit is spirit so Jesus said...those men apart from being hunters are there any thing natural about them that we need to know?
Lastly do we have more Scriptures to substantiate this pre-adam beings or creatures that are humans also or do we take it as some of those revelations that are hard/strong meat to swallow only those whose understanding is above average in spiritual matters or revelations can decipher this.  Please ill like to get more response ... if it becomes a hot topic that forum members might not want to contribute thier opinions to. i;ll be contented to let it lie....there many things we wont know in this lifetime until the resurrection of the just and unjust

I;ll leave this lines in one of my favorite song i know back then titled: Till that Day

     We all have faults both great and small
     but the one who keeps perfecting is Jesus
     and his love is stronger than all
     there are some of us who have stumble on our way
     let the strong of us restore the weak till that day
                 Till the day the voice of unity resound in one accord
  chorus:      till the day we reach the fullness of the stature of our Lord
                 till the day that we know Jesus in the way that we are known
                 till the day we stand faultless with great joy before the throne
                 My brother i will love you till that day
                 My sister i will love you till that day
                 i will bear your burden till that day

 that sum up the best approach to touchy topics  and strong issues that is above immediate comprehesion... WALK IN LOVE
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Kat

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2011, 07:26:09 PM »


I think our way of thinking about a thing can be so set and intertwined with what we believe that we resist having this upset and overturned. Just like the church is resistant about learning the truth, because it does not go along we what they always believed. This is very evident from all we have learned here about the truth and this thing about man should not be any different.


Hi Bob, it sounds like you are asking if the people that were on earth at the time that Adam was formed were sub-human or something, with no language or skills what so ever. I know you are just asking question that come to mind.

What it appears to me is that God created humans at a much earlier time and these were relatively intelligent people and had the ability to reason and think and learn. They obviously did not know God or walked with Him like Adam did, but I don't think He left them to be as animals with no skills and language. I think we have some very good examples of what these people were like in the tribal people that live around the world right now.

Cain probably married one of the women that was not from his (Adam) line. I do not think that he would have taken as his wife a woman that was some kind of dumb brute that could not even communicate with him other than to grunt  ;)

I think with Adam's line God was now going to introduce sophistication into the world. That would at a much more rapid pace bring us to where we are today.


Olasupo, I would think that Adam is the line of human that God formed at the time in which He determined to deal directly with mankind. It is this line of human that He uses to explain how He is working His plan of salvation. There were other groups of people around the world that are never mentioned in the Bible, only those that came in direct contact with those people that He chose to deal with. Just because they came before Adam does not make them less human, nor does it make them any less a part of His plan of salvation.

Adam was Representative of all mankind, the sin in the garden was a representation that all are subject to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. Adam was just the individual that represents mankind and how God started working directly with mankind and explaining His plan of salvation through, because we still have and use that story today.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 07:43:25 PM by Kat »
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olasupo jacobs

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2011, 07:48:02 PM »

thanks a lot Kat... am beginning to see the big picture....Jesus made reference to those not of this fold whom his father has given him and he would save....may be this creations b4 Adam are one of them,,,, more so i like the idea that it was thru Adam God began to unfold His grandest plan of salvation for all his creations,,,, of a certainty He is the father of Spirits of  whom EVERY FAMILY IN HEAVEN & EARTH is named from....and all creation shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption by Him who subjected it in HOPE.....
remain blessed Kat and forum members

ps: am beginning to know why Cain was strongly afraid they might Kill him...if Only Adam,Eve.Cain & Abel existed then
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2011, 07:54:22 PM »

There is an abundance of hard evidence of human beings existing 100,000 or more years ago. Some say millions of years ago.

Since God "cannot lie" this is not some sort of trick where God fools us into believing a lie, else that would make God a deceiver/liar.

Also, these beings buried their dead. Dumb brutes do not bury their dead.
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Craig

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2011, 07:51:04 AM »

Folks the email that Ray posted touched on some things that only Ray can explain better.  We can discuss this here, but we need to be careful on speculating about things Ray did not touch on.  If you have questions you can email him directly, if his health allows he can answer you.  I don't want this to become a point of strife on the forum.

Craig
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G. Driggs

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2011, 09:56:24 AM »

Folks the email that Ray posted touched on some things that only Ray can explain better.  We can discuss this here, but we need to be careful on speculating about things Ray did not touch on.  If you have questions you can email him directly, if his health allows he can answer you.  I don't want this to become a point of strife on the forum.

Craig

Sometimes I go too far, and Im pretty sure Ray hasn't taught about what I asked. Sorry my mistake. Still pretty cool there were people before Adam and Eve.

Did I imagine it where Ray said something like God did something different with Adam an Eve compared to the people created before? I could not find where I thought Ray said that.

G.Driggs
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santikos

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2011, 10:26:27 AM »

interesting topic, i always thought that He created adam first then at the same time created many other people in different places around the area,  but maybe that was just what i wanted to think. obviously adam did not see anything or anyone that was suited for him, until eve came along. i will have to study more and compare with scriptures, leaving my emotions out of it. thanks for your posts
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2011, 10:34:10 AM »


Maybe, Adam and Eve are not Jack and Jill.
 
Maybe, Adam and Eve symbolize God’s making more advanced humans (plural few) from out of many, (plural many)

For sure, many called few chosen, is the way God works.

Arc
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lauriellen

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2011, 11:25:01 AM »

olasupop--loved your song...so true....

as for the rest....i always say, the more i learn, the more i realize i don't know,
and there is so much more to God than we can even imagine. =)

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

makes me smile just thinking about how awesome He is and how dumb we are (even tho we think we are so smart)...love God's sense of humor....love this
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indianabob

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2011, 01:42:28 PM »

For Kat,

Thanks for the response.
One question came immediately to mind.
In the general resurrection will God resurrect ALL of those who may have lived before Adam and Eve?
If so, why? What purpose would be served? Or if not why not?
If they were many, say billions, where will they live on this earth as they are resurrected.

Of course I do understand that this is speculation, but God may have put this question in my mind and
inquiring minds want to know.   ???

For Olasupo Jacobs,

I have often wondered why we could not have Cain marrying one of his sisters or his hundreds of cousins.
There is no definite time frame between Adam/Eve and the generation of Cain and Abel other than the subsequent birth of Seth.
Adam and Eve could have had multiple children and grandchildren prior to Cain/Abel or after Cain/Abel for that matter.
We are not told how many children Adam/Eve had when Seth was born although Adam was then 130 years old.
130 years is plenty of time for children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren to have lived and reproduced.
Skipping over or ignoring intermediate sibling generations is common in scripture.

Just wondering, Ole Indiana Bob
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arion

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2011, 02:49:30 PM »

If they were many, say billions, where will they live on this earth as they are resurrected.

I've thought about that myself in the past but I'm learning to temper my inquisitiveness when God has not revealed in His word about it.  However, it occurred to me that the earth currently is under a curse...the curse of sin.  Look at how much of the world is virtually uninhabitable because of environmental conditions.  You have all of the Arctic and Antarctic along with huge swaths of desert areas in Africa and even here in the U.S. where it's very hard for people to live because of no water, ect.  How much population could the earth hold if the curse was lifted, the entire earth fertile, temperate and plenty of water, ect. 
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markn902

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2011, 03:09:50 PM »

Can I chime in?
I have in my own experience simply accepted that there are things in the bible that do not have a definitive answer. I have accepted my own ignorance of such things. I have a limited ability to understand the unknowable
( is that a word?) I can't think of anything that doesn't have a definite answer in scripture that in anyway goes against the "Foundational Truths" that we all ( I assume) believe in here.

No one man has the answer to every scriptural question ( except one and he walked around 2000 years ago)
If any one man or group had the answer to every scriptural question history would have shown that out by now.
I believe that it is arrogant to think that you do IMO.

I am by no means criticizing the OP or his question. It is a very valid question and the answer is I don't know.
Science would seem to point to "Neanderthals"  but that leads us back to the question Ray answered in his 08 conference on "was the earth created in 7 days"  No it was not created in what we call days.

This brings me back to another "opinion" that is strictly mine and that is..every time we has humans AD have tried to put our concept of linear time to scripture it causes strife. How can we fathom what has no beginning or end? Science has found a way to figure time into a mathematical formula that I believe only scratches the surface of just how awesome and amazing our Creator is. We think in terms of Past, Present, Future, Thats how we are wired. but that concept is meaningless to God and was created for us so we can learn to be Gods Children.

I may have gotten off topic here and I apologize I just wanted to add my two cents and say I am smart enough to understand I don't understand and humble enough to not feel like I should be able to.

Thanks   ;)
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markn902

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2011, 03:44:44 PM »

I am positive that God created some men before Adam.  During my life, I have met many of their descendants.  Real barbarians.   ;D

LOL that was funny

I also wanted to add to my post above I am a Bible Truth amateur and in no way as learned as the Moderators and other members who post here frequently. They absolutely know what they are talking about and that is the reason this is the only place I come to find clarity to scriptural questions and to learn new things.  :)
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Kat

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2011, 03:58:17 PM »


Hi bob,

Well I certainly don't have all the answers, maybe not any of the answers. Now I do think about it, so if there were intelligent humans that lived before Adam, I would think that in itself would be good enough reason for them to be in the resurrection as much as any other human being, right?

Uh oh, but God didn't make the earth big enough for all these people to live on at one time. And there is not enough natural resources to substain all those people either  :(  Well lets see what we have.

This earth has immense tracts of desert, forests or jungles, mountains, polar regions, wetlands and swamps. So only one fourth of all the land on earth is fit for or used for the growing of crops and over half of that land is not under cultivation. So when you add up all the people that have lived that were to come up in the resurrection there would be major problems, wouldn't it? Or would it?

Do we really think that God has not thought this through? Did He underestimate how many people there would be at the resurrection? Or maybe things be worked out in a way that we don't suspect or can understand right now.

Isa 35:1  The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

Isa 11:5  Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
       And faithfulness the belt of His waist.
v. 6  "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
       The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
       The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
       And a little child shall lead them.
v. 7  The cow and the bear shall graze;
       Their young ones shall lie down together;
       And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
v. 8  The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole,
       And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den.
v. 9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
       For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
       As the waters cover the sea.

Things will be different.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 04:21:19 PM by Kat »
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walt123

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2011, 12:50:12 AM »

Hi , all

This information bring many question,

Since all have sinned, Adam and eve where not the first.

Romans 5:12 (New International Version, ©2010)

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

And also if Adam was created and eve formed,how were the people
before them made?, just a couple of thoughts .

But as touching on how all the people are going to live on the earth,


Revelation 21:1 (New International Version, ©2010)

A New Heaven and a New Earth
1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 (New International Version, ©2010)

17 “See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind

Walt.
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grapehound

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Re: did some people existed b4 adam was created?
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2011, 05:23:47 AM »

As to the BUMP question, my understanding of scientific evidence, is that there was a quantum leap from Neanderthal, to Cro Magnon.
It appears that Cro Magnon's appearing, spelled the end for the inferior Troglodyte.

Any thoughts?
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