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Spiritual Journey Dilemma
hillsbororiver:
Hi Everyone,
I have been perusing threads and the one theme that has stuck with me the most right now is how some of us can at certain times become frustrated, angry, maybe even doubtful or antagonistic toward God, maybe all of the above...
Myself included.
After speaking with a Brother yesterday about our faith, our tenacity for obtaining Truth and spiritual growth and how the world with all of it's horrific injustices, lying, self serving leaders of government (all governments, all political persuasions) and the incendiary cheer leading from some in the many media outlets that inflame carnal passion (the hateful kind). We found that both of us had been drawn into worrying about tomorrow, letting the world trouble our spirits.
Have we not been clearly warned, advised, commanded not to do this?
Maybe you are not drawn into political discourse but rather, the day to day hassles we experience, no job or a crappy job perhaps with course coworkers and/or a boss who plays favorites and does not readily appreciate or praise the consistently good (or better) work we might do.
Maybe it is how (we presently perceive) the unfair burdens placed along ours paths, whatever they might be...
You know the particulars of what troubles you.
Knowing that these are not new feelings and that the patriarchs and prophets of the OT especially, and even the apostles (Paul included) devoted many words to this dark, bumpy, hazard filled path we journey on, sometimes we wonder or cry out, WHY?
Why doesn't God open our eyes wider to see more completely what is the real purpose of this whole trip?
What is the reasoning? In plain, simple language thank you very much.
Why must there be all this anxiety, pain, suffering???
What is up with all the secrets, hidden wisdom and all of that?
We just might have the answers...
Psa 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently. (Read this one a few time and meditate on it)
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psa 119:12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Psa 119:15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
Psa 119:19 I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.
Psa 119:73 Thy hands have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding, that I may that I may learn thy commandments.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments(G1785), and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
See that? "Keep my commandments" (and then He will manifest Himself to us?). So is He speaking of the 10 commandments? So if we don't (physically) murder, steal, commit adultery, bear false witness etc. He will give us a deeper knowledge and relationship with Him?
I know, too many questions...
Or is it something else?
Look at the Greek root of G1785 which appears in John 14:21, it is a bit more than commandments, it is all of what our Physician has shown us;
G1785
ἐντολή
entolē
en-tol-ay'
From G1781; injunction, that is, an authoritative prescription: - commandment, precept.
OK, I think I might be getting something here, if we want more wisdom, a deeper insight and a better understanding of the purpose of all this and perhaps a deeper glimpse into the mind of God, we just might want to obey (ALL of) what He has shown us so far, when we get there He just might (no, He promised to) manifest* Himself to us!
MANIFEST
1: readily perceived by the senses and especially by the sense of sight
2: easily understood or recognized by the mind
Hmmm...
So if we use what He has given us up to right now, if we live within the wisdom He has shown us presently, if we diligently follow Christ's example, we are promised even more of a revelation of God, a deeper understanding of His plan and purpose for all of us. Sounds like a fair deal. Doesn't it?
Think about it, did we get more privileges (or a higher allowance) as a child before we met the obligations our parents set before us?
Did we get to high school before graduating grammar school?
Promoted to a better job before mastering our present job?
You get my drift...
Peace,
Joe
waarheid77:
Hi Joe,
Glad you came back. I asked about you before and, told that one I hoped you came back. He agreed.
Now as for what you said. I agree about that. The problem is we look to the outside. I was told to look inside and would see what caused all my problems. I did. Horrified at what I saw. The false charges and all the lies about me. I caused all of them. Wow, who is to blame? ME! God caused nothing that happened to me I did. Forgiveness? As much as I prayed to forgive them I deluded myself into thinking I had. One night at a store the cashier named Dawn said you are full of anger. I said what! She said you have not forgiven people. I had said or done nothing to show her this. Almost a year later. They were forgiven. It took that long to teach me. Now if I think of them I would love to embrace them. A lot of difference. I contacted several and told them I was wrong and was sorry for what I said. Did not seem to be a bad saying.
So the problem is deception.
All of us place everything on the outside. God is not interested in our outside. It is what is in the heart. How we think. What we think.
Christianity blames satan. This place blames God. Yes, God is all in all. He does not cause us to do the things we do.
Raise a rock and He is there. See a tree, He is there. He is in everything. So He is all in all.
I see many false statements here. A little leaven leavened the whole lump.
There are several ideas on this forum that are not right.
We are told to put on the mind of Christ. He was not critical, jugdemental, condemning, and never got angry with God.
Can we see the mind of Christ here? Answer it for yourself.
Consider this and see if it is correct.
Spell Check satan with a S (not)
Again welcome back Joe
In Christ Jesus Love and grace to all
Ken
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: waarheid77 on January 28, 2011, 04:42:18 PM ---Hi Joe,
Glad you came back. I asked about you before and, told that one I hoped you came back. He agreed.
--- End quote ---
Hi Ken,
Thank you!
--- Quote from: waarheid77 on January 28, 2011, 04:42:18 PM ---
Now as for what you said. I agree about that. The problem is we look to the outside. I was told to look inside and would see what caused all my problems. I did. .
--- End quote ---
I can't totally agree that you "caused all your problems" but I can understand that the choices you made once you were "caused" to deal with certain situations left you in a bad place.
--- Quote from: waarheid77 on January 28, 2011, 04:42:18 PM ---
God caused nothing that happened to me I did.
--- End quote ---
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Jer 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Lam 3:9 He hath inclosed my ways with hewn stone, he hath made my paths crooked.
He may beg to differ Brother...
--- Quote from: waarheid77 on January 28, 2011, 04:42:18 PM ---Hi Joe,
Forgiveness? As much as I prayed to forgive them I deluded myself into thinking I had. One night at a store the cashier named Dawn said you are full of anger. I said what! She said you have not forgiven people. I had said or done nothing to show her this. Almost a year later. They were forgiven. It took that long to teach me. Now if I think of them I would love to embrace them. A lot of difference. I contacted several and told them I was wrong and was sorry for what I said. Did not seem to be a bad saying.
So the problem is deception.
--- End quote ---
It is true that most of us are very easily deceived but I sincerely believe that often the root of our spiritual stagnancy is impatience and our own expectations, we are on God's timetable He is not obligated to ours. The sooner we realize this the more we are at peace with our particular circumstances. I am not saying I myself hold true and fast to this all the time as I am an impatient bullheaded beast all too often, but usually after a period of humbling and being caused to consider all the ramifications of my own choices (not free will but decisions made within a finite set of choices) I understand that seeking to follow His "prescription" is the only cure for our spiritual shortcomings.
--- Quote from: waarheid77 on January 28, 2011, 04:42:18 PM ---
All of us place everything on the outside.
--- End quote ---
Once again I have some agreement but I cannot say this is an exclusive truth, some of my very worst moments are when I forget I am forgiven and I obsess over things I have done in my past, confessed and asked forgiveness for, if my faith was stronger I would believe (consistently) that these things were behind me, I realize then that I have still a very far road to travel.
Outside events can and do have a very profound effect on us when we ignore our Lord's admonishments to "not be troubled..."
--- Quote from: waarheid77 on January 28, 2011, 04:42:18 PM ---
I see many false statements here. A little leaven leavened the whole lump.
There are several ideas on this forum that are not right.
--- End quote ---
Ken, perhaps you could be more specific here, I certainly would not dismiss what you say out of hand or by loyalty to any man but that is a very easy accusation to make without more details to define exactly what it is you are speaking of.
All here are in need of having the old leaven being purged from us bit by bit, there are few who would dispute this.
--- Quote from: waarheid77 on January 28, 2011, 04:42:18 PM ---
We are told to put on the mind of Christ. He was not critical, jugdemental, condemning, and never got angry with God.
Can we see the mind of Christ here? Answer it for yourself.
Consider this and see if it is correct.
Spell Check satan with a S (not)
--- End quote ---
The mind of Christ is our goal, not our present state, I do not think anyone was able to make that claim here in the flesh, did any apostle, or did Paul ever say they possessed the total mind of Christ? Did any of the writers of the Gospels or any scripture proclaim they had arrived at spiritual perfection?
Jesus was critical of His own disciples (if you need chapter and verse I will provide them upon request) He was critical of the Pharisees, Sadducees, the leaders of the Synagogues especially and He was critical of those who love their life here in this world as well.
--- Quote from: waarheid77 on January 28, 2011, 04:42:18 PM ---
Spell Check satan with a S (not)
--- End quote ---
This might well be a matter of personal taste as the proper English would have anyone's name with a capital first letter, even that old serpent Satan or satan... ;)
Peace to you Brother,
Joe
walt123:
Hi,Joe
I agree what you said,and I would like to add a analogy,there is a movie called
"Ground hog day" starting Bill Murray;
we start off the same way when God starts working with us,
than as days go by, after day, after day, and so on ,we should be learning and fine tuning
our character.
Until a day we wake up and see who really was in control of our growth,and become thankful.
And It's easy to look to much on self and what the world has to offer.
But I wonder, if we would look and see what we do have now,it would be more than,well lets say
people from 2000 yrs ago,they would say we live like royalty, as kings and Queens,would they not?
So in closing,mediation, reflection, and humidity is the order a the day.
Philippians 4:11 (New Living Translation)
11 Not that I was ever in need, for I have learned how to be content with whatever I have.
Walt
grapehound:
I blame global warming for that humidity, Walt.
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