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Calvinism's Heartless "Gospel"
Hopeful:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on March 18, 2011, 12:16:43 PM ---Hi Hopeful
Thanks for the "inside" look at what it is like to be a Calvanist! Calvinists are very very persistent in their beliefs, I have some good friends who are Cavinists, and I have discussed these horrors with them and they remain unmoved. It is shocking to witness the very depths of the heartlessness. If God is really like they say, then who would want to be with him. The only reason they would want to be with him would be to escape the horrific fate of the other unfortunates, which they are learning to harden their hearts against.
Calvinists takes the greatest attribute of God, that He demonstrates His love for us by having His Son to give His life for us, and turns it on its ear, to make God the very opposite of what He was demonstrating, Love. It is a masterful work of satan. It impugns Gods character more than any other thing, any other religion, that I can think of. yet because it is based on fear, the adherents cannot bear to look at any contrary evidence, because they cannot risk their own souls! They are all too familiar with the horrors of damnation and to look at the belief critically is far too risky!!! Can you imagine the fear that would have to be overcome to leave calvinism? You have to LOVE others more than your own fear of damnation.
And to make it even more difficult, they do have one thing pretty correct. God's Sovereignity. No free will. They do for the most part, understand this very well. I think that understanding, being true, makes it even more difficult to believe their other understanding is wrong. SO they are really locked in.
I think the easiest way for you, maybe, would be too take the ONE thing they do understand, Gods sovereignity, and combine it with the other truth the other side understands, which is the HEART of God which the other side, the Arminians, really understand. They really really beleive God is not willing that any should perish, its just that He cannot do anything about free will, and men can free will themselves into eternal perdition. but at least an entire camp of Christianity can see the heart of God that the calvinists cannot. tHE SAME HEART THAT WE CAN SEE.
sO THE GREAT IRONY IS, IF YOU TAKE THE HEART VIEW OF GOD THE ARMINIANS HAVE AND COMBINE IT WITH THE UNDERSTANDING OF GODS SOVEREIGNITY THE CALVINISTS HAVE, YOU HAVE WHAT WE BELIEVE! A God who will be successful in bringing every last one to Himself, and will honor the cross of Christ by giving it its full measure.
God wants you to have FAITH in HIS LOVE that IS IN his heart. His heart is FULL of tender LOVE. I MEAN TRUST THAT HE IS ACTUALLY LOVE. Your fear is that you are not sure of His Love. You know it in your mind, you need it revealed to you, deeply, in your heart. Your tender heart cries out to know a God who actually, also, has a tender heart. He does. You will become more and more convinced of this, as He shows/changes your understanding of His heart, at your deepest heart level. It is wonderful that you have a tender heart. God will show you that likewise, He too has a tender heart.
Only satan(not God) does NOT have a tender heart. And for a while, God allows satan to convince men that Gods heart is much more like satans. What an absolute slander satan is doing, but it is by design. God bless you in this struggle. God, transform our hearts, so we love like you. Let us so love that the wiles of satan will be of no effect, that he is absolutely unable to make us doubt you, because we know you!
Doug
--- End quote ---
Yes. It's very horrible. When seriously believed and thought about, Calvinism either destroys one's peace or transforms one's heart into solid stone. One can get a look at this, one can read Vincent Cheung. I quoted him in my first post. He is among the most honest of Calvinists, saying the non-elect are predestined by God to sin and then be eternally tormented for sin, all for "God's glory" and the amusement of his "saints". I seriously believe he might be a sociopath, the way he seems so happy about the eternal torment of others. I found myself wondering if he really possessed the Spirit of the One who wept over the destruction of Jerusalem. Of course, the Calvinists I knew would only reprimand me for my "lack of faith". I asked if I was more loving than the One who calls Himself "love" because I would gladly see every man delivered. They said no. I asked why. They said because he loves the elect with an "infinite love", whatever that means. I asked how they knew that they were elect. They seemed quite confident that they had been given a revelation from the Holy Spirit that they were. I asked how they were sure it was the Holy Spirit, and not some demonic delusion sent to goad them into a false rest so God would send them to hell forever, since he (according to them) is very much into that sort of thing. They had no real answer except a great deal of self-confidence.
Still, these doctrines managed to terrorize me to the core of my being, and I still have not fully recovered. I remember wishing, at times, in the depths of my being, that atheists were right and that the universe would someday end in nothingness. That was practically heavenly next to the eternal nightmare prophesied by John Calvin and co. I constantly worry at night that maybe Ray is wrong, that Calvin was right, and that I am one of the non-elect destined for eternal torture. This makes me very, very sad, and extremely fearful. :'(
DougE6:
Hello Hopeful
Your name "hopeful" is a prophecy of sorts, I believe, for you! :) I grieve for you, that you feel the turmoil that you do, but I think this is a continuing work of the FATHER. Gods work is being done. I have HOPE for you. Great Hope. I would gather that those feelings are a great reason to seek the comfort, the solace, the peace of knowing Him, your Lord, in ever deeper ways. Seek the Lord Himself! Yes, there is great wisdom in Ray's writings, but do not put your faith in whether his understanding is correct (even though I feel it is) but learn to know Jesus for yourself, so that you know that He would not abandon you or anyone to the eternal torture pit. If you know Him, you will know what he would or would not do. To help in this learn to love your brother, whom you can see, so then you can love Him that you cannot see.
We know that those who have been forgiven much, love much, or those who have been delivered from much, love much. You need to be delivered from much. If you have a tender heart God will abide there, clearly he is already preparing to do so by making it more tender. Your grieving and fear, can make you intimately acquainted with the depth of the pain and depravities of those who blaspheme, and give you a great sense of love and compassion for its victims. This is good. EVEN MORE it can also make you hold on with great tenacity to the true faith, the true gospel, the truth God, ALL FOUNDED ON LOVE NOT FROM FEAR! Enough with doctrines based on Fear! Away with them!!!!
And finally, FORGIVE those who taught you those evil doctrines. Forgive them totally. Weep for them. God will give mercy to the merciful, He will give grace to the humble, He will give peace and forgiveness to the ones who forgive. You have been wronged, you need to forgive them, completely. Loving our enemies, when we do this, that very love, that love from God, makes it impossible to entertain such doctrines in our hearts, the very heart where He dwells. Thank you for showing your heart.
Doug.
Hopeful:
--- Quote from: DougE6 on March 18, 2011, 11:24:54 PM ---Hello Hopeful
Your name "hopeful" is a prophecy of sorts, I believe, for you! :) I grieve for you, that you feel the turmoil that you do, but I think this is a continuing work of the FATHER. Gods work is being done. I have HOPE for you. Great Hope. I would gather that those feelings are a great reason to seek the comfort, the solace, the peace of knowing Him, your Lord, in ever deeper ways. Seek the Lord Himself! Yes, there is great wisdom in Ray's writings, but do not put your faith in whether his understanding is correct (even though I feel it is) but learn to know Jesus for yourself, so that you know that He would not abandon you or anyone to the eternal torture pit. If you know Him, you will know what he would or would not do. To help in this learn to love your brother, whom you can see, so then you can love Him that you cannot see.
We know that those who have been forgiven much, love much, or those who have been delivered from much, love much. You need to be delivered from much. If you have a tender heart God will abide there, clearly he is already preparing to do so by making it more tender. Your grieving and fear, can make you intimately acquainted with the depth of the pain and depravities of those who blaspheme, and give you a great sense of love and compassion for its victims. This is good. EVEN MORE it can also make you hold on with great tenacity to the true faith, the true gospel, the truth God, ALL FOUNDED ON LOVE NOT FROM FEAR! Enough with doctrines based on Fear! Away with them!!!!
And finally, FORGIVE those who taught you those evil doctrines. Forgive them totally. Weep for them. God will give mercy to the merciful, He will give grace to the humble, He will give peace and forgiveness to the ones who forgive. You have been wronged, you need to forgive them, completely. Loving our enemies, when we do this, that very love, that love from God, makes it impossible to entertain such doctrines in our hearts, the very heart where He dwells. Thank you for showing your heart.
Doug.
--- End quote ---
This is very difficult for me to say. I worry constantly that maybe, just maybe, my old associates are right after all and their incredibly sadistic God does exist and is setting me up for an eternal torture pit. You have no idea what kinds of fear that creates in me. I've been burned before. I know how it feels. The thought of that happening for all eternity, while Jesus Christ and His saints laugh at my agony forever is *shudder* almost more than I can bear. Disassociating myself from this doctrine is terribly hard. I want UR to be true soooooooooo badly, though. I wish for nothing more in the universe, and yet doubts continually plague me that maybe, just maybe, it is not and God really is that cruel and hateful. :'(
I really do need your prayers. Please?
cjwood:
prayers for His will hopeful. also, if you have not listened to/watched the video of the 3/13/11 bible-study ray did in his home, you will benefit greatly if you do. especially, the 2nd video. you will hopefully find great comfort there. i know i did. and still am. great, great stuff in all 3 videos.
be assured hopeful, God IS Love. God, the Father of Jesus Christ. and Jesus Christ Himself. brilliant LOVE.
claudia
Hopeful:
--- Quote from: cjwood on March 19, 2011, 02:37:07 AM ---prayers for His will hopeful. also, if you have not listened to/watched the video of the 3/13/11 bible-study ray did in his home, you will benefit greatly if you do. especially, the 2nd video. you will hopefully find great comfort there. i know i did. and still am. great, great stuff in all 3 videos.
be assured hopeful, God IS Love. God, the Father of Jesus Christ. and Jesus Christ Himself. brilliant LOVE.
claudia
--- End quote ---
Which one is that called? Comfort and assurance of God's love is something I've been lacking for years. I could really use some.
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