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Author Topic: rewards/chastisement/God  (Read 2439 times)

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« on: March 12, 2011, 11:22:46 PM »

I have a question-

How does God discipline those that are non-elect at judgement day? I know he uses his spiritual fire to cleanse them but HOW? how intense? does he give them great convictions that they turn from their sins? or that they are overwhelmed with God's unconditional love that they are overwhelmed by his pure love that they change, or is it like the way we suffer now in this lifetime? God is love, he is Love itself, so pure and holy that there's no blemish,U could find no wrong, and even in his love, you see the error of your ways and willing to change. immediately, like that,  how does he chasten the non-elect with his spiritual fire is my question? 

as for rewards- what kind of rewards are the elect/saints or people who did good, get?

I remember feeling God/Jesus' love for me in a dream I had years ago, when i was younger. I don't remember seeing him at all but you know you kind of knew you were in his presence, if that makes sense?  i remember being by his feet, being content sitting there,  because his love for me, is so pure that you don't really want to leave. the feeling you get, love is so unbelievably strong, you feel immediately that you are right at home. There's  no disappointment, or upset for whatever you did. He looked past it and showed his love for me.  even being in his love, you had no interest in sinning at all.

Im just curious to see how God plans on chastening those who were not part of Christ' 1000 years reign kingdom?


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Re: rewards/chastisement/God
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2011, 10:05:38 AM »


Your inquest as regards the chastening of the Lord is interesting. Although I feel it may not be proper to predict how God intends to discipline you or me;nevertheless, God does to us as He wishes or as He sees fit. It is also true that the elect may be hidden from the anger of the Lord.The corrupt children of evildoers will also be meted with chastisement fitting their sin.
Thanks to God that :"If the Lord of Heaven's Armies had not spared a few of us we would have been wiped out like Gomorrah." See also Ezra9:13 and Lamentations 3:22

Till next time!


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Re: rewards/chastisement/God
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2011, 01:52:16 PM »

Hi Revilonivek:

Here are some email questions and replies from Ray that may help your understanding.


In what way you think that Hitler will be SEVERELY CHASTISED, a short time in fire or another form of punishment? Because if you think he will be, you must know  some kind of punishment. I been reading your writings for a while and I notice that you don't said what doctrine you really follow the apocatastasis doctrine?
 People like Hitler will be for their evil ways.
Dear Victor:
Hitler, Saddam and his sons, and people like John Hagee and Dr. Kennedy who gloat over billions being tortured for all eternity, and many more just like them, will be Judged in the VERY SAME WAY THAT THEY JUDGED OTHERS (Matt. 7:1-2).  Their OWN SINS, will "TORMENT them" beyond comprehension, "in the PRESENCE of the Lamb" (Rev. 14:10), when God purges their evil consciences with His spiritual "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God be with you,

So Ray..........what is the punishment ?
A person rapes and murders a child. He is standing before the white throne, and God _______________________________________________________ !
God Bless You ... never mind He already has


Dear Paul:
Of course there WILL BE "hell to pay" for the raptist!  There will, indeed be, "MANY STRIPES" beaten upon the wicked ("It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God" Heb. 10:31).  But it will not last for all eternity, and it will produce a desired and righteous destiny. The unscriptural christian hell  supposeldy lasts for eternity and produces not one iota of redeaming value.
God be with you,

[Ray Replies]
The Scriptures speak many times about a furnace of fire melting, purifying, and burning off the unwanted dross when refining such metals as silver and gold.  In I Cor. 3:12-12 Pauls gives us this same analogy of purifying gold, silver, or precious stones, while burning off the dross of wood, straw, and stubble. But Paul is clearly speaking of PEOPLE'S WORKS being tried and purified in this fire. The result of ALL that go through this purifying fire of God is that THEY ARE ALL SAVED! "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but  he himself SHALL BE SAVED, yet so as BY FIRE." There is the wonderful good news about the outcome of God's divine judgments.
And so Jesus also alluded to this endtime judgment of the lake of fire when everyman's work would be tried in the lake of fire (or furnace of fire). And we know just what the fire is, because it purifies as brimstone, which is DIVINE!  God HIMSELF IS a "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29). God even prophesied of this purifying fire of judgment back in the book of Malachi. I don't have the time to prove to you from the Bible that "Levi" is representative of ALL HUMANITY, but with that in mind, let's read Malachi 32-3, "But who may abide the day of His coming? and sho shall stand when He appears? for He is like a REFINER'S FIRE, and like fullers' sope: and He shall sit as a REFINER AND PURIFIER [need I even comment that we do not torture or punish silver and gold in a furnace?] of silver: and He shall purify THE SONS OF LEVI, and purge them AS gold and silver, [why? for the fun of torturing them for all eternity? No, read on...] that they may offer unto the Lord an OFFERING IN RIGHTEOUSNESS!
The fires of God's spiritual furnace will PURGE AND PURIFY all mankind. We read of it EVERYWHERE in His Word:
"...For when thy [God's] JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD will learn RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9).

Dear Keith:
Well first of all let me say, I hope that I will not find myself BEING JUDGED in the new world. Judgment is upon the house of God NOW (I Pet. 4:17). As far as what happens in Judgment, please read my series on "The Lake of Fire." I cannot condense 600 pages down to an email, and besides, the series is not finished yet. Hope you understand.

God be with you,


Chris R

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Re: rewards/chastisement/God
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2011, 07:41:02 PM »

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out! [Rom 11:33]

Unsearchable; translated from [anexeraunētos]  used once in the bible.... meaning "That cannot be searched out" ...

His Judgements cannot be searched out.  But when His judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will LEARN righteousness"!

Now you can spin this any way you wish...but the fact is, ...and it says what it says. We dont know what Gods judgments will be, we have metaphors, parables, physical interpretations, but...honestly we havent a clue as to what Gods judgments will be.

Chris R



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Re: rewards/chastisement/God
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2011, 07:57:07 PM »

We who are being blessed with confronting our inner 'beast' are having it done a little bit at a time.  Like an onion God is peeling back all the layers in order and revealing it to us as we are able to receive it and it's a process.  Can one imagine what it will be to stand spiritually naked before the Lord, his angels, his elect and other sinners?  How many of us would almost die of embarrassment if those around us knew our inner thoughts from time to time.  What about when nothing can no longer be hidden and things spoken in private are shouted from the housetops?  No, I don't think for an instant (any longer of course) that there will be physical torture or physical fire that the church teaches but what exquisite spiritual pain and torture it will be for the individual to see himself/herself as they truly are without the 'beast' being able to deceive them any longer.  No wonder that men will spiritually cry out for the rocks and mountains to fall upon them and to hide them from the face of their judge.  As has already been said we don't know specifically what these things will be but we do know that to the merciful he will show mercy!!  (Jas 2:13)  And this is a thought that has been with me almost continuously since I came into the knowledge of some of these things.


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Re: rewards/chastisement/God
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2011, 02:33:13 AM »

Thank you for your answers! They were a BIG help. I was praying for the answer, trying to figure and make sense about the judgement Day, especially when God himself is unconditional love- and he himself even says he won't judge us and has entrusted it to his Son to do the judging. It all made sense now.

The scriptures you guys gave me and in addition to the ones I found, I finally got an idea of what may be like at judgement day.

God  judges us according to what we do to others.

Matthew 7:1-2 (Contemporary English Version)
1Don't condemn others, and God won't condemn you. 2God will be as hard on you as you are on others! He will treat you exactly as you treat them.

Luke 17:20-21 (King James Version)

 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Concerning rewards, they are  Glory, Honor and peace.

Romans 2:10-13 (Contemporary English Version)

10But all who do right will be rewarded with glory, honor, and peace, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 11God doesn't have any favorites!

    12Those people who don't know about God's Law will still be punished for what they do wrong. And the Law will be used to judge everyone who knows what it says. 13God accepts those who obey his Law, but not those who simply hear it.

God's law is this:Galatians 5:14 (Young's Literal Translation)

 14for all the law in one word is fulfilled -- in this: `Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself;'  (YLT)

Basically- from what I understand in order to get into the Kingdom of God, or  that kingdom of God Consciousness or State of mind,  is we are required to overcome our selfish natures,carnal desires and everything that you can think of that keeps you back from reaching unconditional love state of mind toward yourself, others, and everything around you. otherwise we will be judged according to whatever selfish nature we hold on to, and how we treat others with it, and it will be held against us until we reach that unconditional love state of mind.  God  judges us according to what we do to others. I realize that getting rid of humanity's carnal ego/selfish desires isn't a walk in the park regardless but good news, we'll get there with God's help!

Thanks to you all!

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