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Today you will be with me in Paradise?
Foxx:
Luke 23:43 - Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
I was wondering what this means exactly? When we die we are awaiting ressurection and then judgment correct? What does this mean and other verses that may reference "paradise"? I have my ideas but I would like other's thoughts.
Thanks!
arion:
Ray has spoken on this but I don't have the reference at hand...I'm sure others will jump in. What I do know however is that there is no punctuation in the Greek language and where the comma is put in this verse makes all the difference in the world.
Luke 23:43 - Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Unscriptural.
Luke 23:43 - Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."
Scriptural.
A few other versions....
Luk 23:43 And he said unto him—Verily, I say unto thee this day: With me, shalt thou be in Paradise. (Rotherhams)
Luk 23:43 And said to him the Jesus: Indeed I say to thee to-day, with me thou shalt be in the Paradise. (Emphatic Diaglott)
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise. (Concordant Literal Version)
Hope that helps.
Foxx:
Holy guacamole....I would never have thought of that. Do you know of a reason why the punctuation would be changed? is there some sort of conspiracy in the catholic church that they would have done this?
I mean, I can see the big differences. But if the translations other than the KJV support this then wouldn't most of Christianity just say we are playing "apologetic's advocate"? Is there some other way to prove this?
Craig:
Check out the FAQ section, you can find the answers quickly to questions that are asked again and again over the years.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11614.0.html
Craig
Kat:
Hi Foxx,
i think this email will help withthis question.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,979.0.html ----
It is not kosher to quote half of a verse when it has a larger context. Jesus did not begin a sentence with: "TODAY you shall be with me in paradise," did He? No, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee TODAY shall you be with Me in paradise." But even that is King James translating, and King James is not inerrant. Notice how the great scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham renders this verse: "Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise." But as a footnote he suggests that "This day with me shalt...." as a possibility. So what's the solution? God tells us how to solve this verse and every other verse of Scripture: "That no prophecy of scripture becomes self-solving" (II Pet. 1:20, Rotherham), "That no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation" (Concordant LNT).
We must go to other Scriptures to explain what is mean by this Scripture.
But is this what theology does? No, theologians say this this verse EXPLAINS ITSELF --"That VERY DAY the thief went with Christ TO HEAVEN." Oh really? That is not what the REST of the Bible teaches.
DON'T "assume" that "paradise" means heaven. Why would you do that? Is there any Scriptural justification for that? NO, no there isn't. In what way do the Scriptures liken paradise to heaven? Most theologians assume things that AREN'T there, and then teach the absolute opposite of what things ARE in the Scriptures. "Paradise" is a Persian word that means "park or garden."
There is the mention of only two primary "gardens" in Scripture: The "tree of life" (Gen. 2:9) is found in Garden of Eden (Gen. 2:9). And what else is that Garden of Eden called? Answer: "To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (Rev. 2:7).
[1] The "Garden of Eden." Was that garden, "heaven?" What did we find in that garden: (1) the knowledge of EVIL, (2) rebellion and SIN, (3) a flaming SWORD, (4) the pronouncement of CURSES, and (5) the lying SERPENT (Satan--Rev. 12:9).
[2] The "Garden of Gethsemane." Was that garden "heaven?" What did we find in that garden? (1) The Apostles DESERTED Jesus in this garden, (2) Judas BETRAYED Jesus in this garden, (3) an army of wicked elders, scribes and chief priest with clubs and SWORDS, (4) Jesus is carried away from this garden to be CRUCIFIED, and (5) This garden contained the TOMB in which the DEAD Jesus was placed.
Do any of this evils in these two paradise gardens sound like "heaven" to you? I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43. Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God. This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does. That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD
This is a large subject involving the different resurrections, and the Judgments of God. It will take a sizable paper to cover it properly and I cannot do it now. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray
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