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Today you will be with me in Paradise?
Duane:
I was always fascinated by "today, thou shalt be with me in paradise".
I always mused: What about the religions that teach that in order for one to get to heaven--one MUST be baptized, or "baptized 'in the church' ". (Kind of hard to do hanging on a cross!)
Why wouldn't Jesus, of ALL people, NOT administer "last rites"? Last rites were never mentioned in the Bible-so whose idea was this? I speculate it is more for comforting the family--that the religious figure looks like he is doing SOMETHING constructive.
Kat:
I have to believe that nothing Jesus Christ said was for appearances, but every word that came out of His mouth had profound meaning and purpose.
As I have been thinking about this phrase that Jesus Christ said to the man dying next to Him.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise." (CLV)
We do not know what the thief on the cross next to Jesus believed, but he may not have believed in the resurrection of the dead... Jesus did know. Couldn't it have been that Jesus was giving this man a bit of truth about his final destination? "With Me SHALL you be in paradise," SHALL BE in a future time. What greater truth could a dying man receive than the knowledge he would be bought back in a resurrection and one day be in paradise with the Lord. As He was breathing His last breaths, some of His final words before He died was giving truth and comfort to another.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
cjwood:
i love this thread. it caused me to really ask myself, "why did Jesus say this statement to the dying thief?" especially knowing that Jesus knew there was no place that He and the thief were getting ready to go to in death, other than the grave. but, after reading through all the posts, i am seeing that ray was not saying that both gardens mentioned in Scripture were evil, but that evil was also present in both of these gardens. i had the same thoughts as g. driggs, regarding, how can the garden of eden be considered evil when the tree of life was also there. the tree of life being Jesus Christ.
and then after reading john of kentucky's response that from the perspective of the thief, the words of Jesus will be absolutely true, since there is no remembrance in death. and with kat's comments about Jesus' speaking emphatically that the thief SHALL be with Him in paradise, and this could be Jesus sharing a truth about the thief's future destination upon his resurrection. and after reading kat's describing Jesus' soothing words to the dying thief, while He was also suffering much physical pain, even unto His last breaths.
thanks for all of this brothers/sisters. thanks Abba Father.
claudia
G. Driggs:
I think I understand a little better. It might take some time for me to digest. Thanks all.
G.Driggs
Marky Mark:
I like to look at the perspective of paradise in these Scriptural terms,just thinking out loud here.
Joh 15:1 I am the true Grapevine, and My Father is the Farmer."
The Father is the Farmer and The Son is Abba's created Spiritual True Grapevine in The Fathers Spiritual Garden. Just as we also are Christ's Spiritual garden who shall bear Spiritual fruit from the Grapevine.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."
With me shall you seems to be applying the Word of God into a yet future resurrection for the thief, where Christ, shall be in the thief, and the thief, shall be in the Christ,upon Spiritual conversion.
. Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Jesus Christ is that paradise in the midst of The Fathers Farm.He that shall overcome will eat of the vine and partake in the fruit thereof.
Joh 15:5 I am the Grapevine. You are the branches. He who is remaining in Me, and I in him, this one is bringing forth much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing."
The tree of life[Jesus] is in the midst of the Father[The Farmer], in which His Garden [Paradise] grows because;
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
So shall all overcomers be in the midst of Paradise[Christ], in Christ.
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Paul was in the third [three being the process of Spiritual completion] heaven,which is the most mature Spiritual realm,where Christ dwells with the Father,in the heavens.
Gods elect [and all eventually] will also be caught up into Paradise,in the third heaven,which is in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
Gods elect,down through the eons will be with Him in Paradise,just as all mankind will [ including the thief] after their Spiritual conversion in Christ [Paradise].
Jas 5:7 Be patient, then, brethren, till the presence of the Lord. Lo! the farmer is waiting for the precious fruit of the land, being patient about it, till it should be getting the early and late showers."
Jas 5:8 You also, then, be patient; establish your hearts, for the presence of the Lord is near."
Hope this helps some.
Peace...Mark
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