What's the use?

[Craig]

mercie,

whomever is making you feel this way should ought to take a better look at Ray's site because on the bottom of his page it state "Ask your question in the bible-truths discussion group. See THOUSANDS of emails not posted here.
Join Now - http://forums.bible-truths.com"  Granted it also gives his email address but nonetheless.

Mercie and everyone else.  Yes this is what is said at the bottom of Ray's site, but here is the situation the moderators are in.  We are not teachers, and because of this feel very overwhelmed.  What happens is someone does ask a question and then the trouble begins. 

For the most part the forum has many good folks asking honest questions, there are also those who will try and teach things which they have no understanding of. Religious hobbyists, and self appointed scholars are those that can confuse us little children.  Answers are given and twenty different views are added in and in the end the strongest personalities win out and it leaves the silent majority, the new people, the non posters, the babes in Christ, who have had their eyes opened to the truth, more confused than ever.  I become confused and I have had more experience than most. 

Yes, Ray Smith is the teacher who without, the website and forum would not exist.  I believe he is called of God to teach.  Does he have all the answers?.  Of course not. 

So what tools do the moderators have to try and keep things on track?  (Remember we are not teachers and don't have the time to keep the truths taught on Bible Truths on track) The tool we use is the thing that brought us all to the forum, the writings of Ray and the scriptures he uses to provide some answers to people.  When we do this, then we are accused of only letting Ray's views be the boundry of discussion.....Well H-E-L-L-O, that is why the questions are generated in the first place.  Remember the forum rules "If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere"  This applies even if your teaching is correct, because none of the moderators have the time to study what you are teaching or believe, we have a hard enough time within the confines of the rules of the forum.

Perhaps the forum has run its course, I for one am tired of the trouble and confusion it is causing.  If it is to be used to answer questions then it will need a teacher and I know of no one here that can fit that calling.  Ray could not write another paper and spend the rest of his life answering email questions generated by his teaching and would not finish.   Thirty moderators could not do justice to the job of answering honest questions posted here, let alone the questions of what is the spritial meaning of this or that?  Joe said it right when he compared it to herding a roomful of cats.

I wish the site would just become a place to fellowship and spritiual resting place.   Many are coming out of the wilderness and need a place of sanctuary, instead of coming out of babylon into another babylon.  We need to lift each other up in fellowship, many of us here have lost the fellowship with others and are now shunned.  When this site becomes a forum of confusion we are failing each other.  Too many here try very hard to be teachers, preachers and leaders.  The fact is very few will ever be called to do that job, the majority of us are to be diligent students and all of us are to let Christ be a witness through us, not by speaking or writing a thousand words but by the actions of Him in our lives.

Blessings!
Craig

[YellowStone]

Craig,

Yours was a sad post, I too feel your frustration only I'm not sure that I'm not part of the cause

Please everyone know and understand that we are pitiful ambassadors of Christ and the love that he stands for if this forum closes. If we cannot show love one to another then who can we love.

Please understand that I am not standing on a soap box, rather I'm feeling quite ashamed. 

Thanks for your honesty Craig.

[prarrydog]

Craig,

  Why do you feel the need to try and answer everyone's question?  Seems like an unfair burden to me.  When we post topics we are not specifically asking you.  We all learn from each other.  If someone pm's you and you don't feel like answering.....don't.  Pass it on to Ray.  If he doesn't feel like answering, he doesn't.  I think we are all adult enough to realize that you don't have unlimited time.  Maybe more moderators are needed.  What does it pay?  

   Take heart friend,  there is alot worse places you could be.  We are the lucky ones. 

    Psa 31:24  Be strong and take heart,
       all you who hope in the LORD.

with love

[gmik]

Thanks Craig for your honesty.  Yellowstone, I agree it is sad.  I love the Off-Topic forum and the prayer and testimony the best.  But look at the #'s and you see that it isn't that big of a group reading.  What can be done??? Prarrydog has an idea.  What are others?

[prarrydog]

   By the way Craig, You and all the mods do a great job here.

[YellowStone]

   By the way Craig, You and all the mods do a great job here.

Absolutely!!! You guys are truly appreciated!

Darren

[Craig]

Craig,

  Why do you feel the need to try and answer everyone's question?  Seems like an unfair burden to me.  When we post topics we are not specifically asking you.  We all learn from each other.  If someone pm's you and you don't feel like answering.....don't.  Pass it on to Ray.  If he doesn't feel like answering, he doesn't.  I think we are all adult enough to realize that you don't have unlimited time.  Maybe more moderators are needed.  What does it pay?  

I'm glad you asked this question.  Why the need to answer?  Because the forum will quickly turn into the the Jerry Springer religious debate forum.  This forum is not and was never meant to be a place to debate religious ideas.  If you want that then do a google search and join the one of over 20 million hits you receive. 

I'll say this again, debate is not the purpose of the forum.  The questions the forum where meant to address are questions that come up when reading Ray's material.  If you have trouble understanding what Ray is trying to convey in an article, then you should be able to ask this question and have someone who understands what Ray is trying to say answer for him, if no one can then we as mods can ask him the question.  The problem is people do not answer the question as it pertains to Ray's message, I dare say most have not even read some of his writings, but they will attempt to answer according to their own ideas.  Throw a dozen scriptures at the question and leave people more confused than ever. 

The forum and members here are often branded as followers of Ray rather than Christ.  This is so untrue and I'm not going to waste time defending this statement except to say this.  There is truth, not half truth, mostly truth, or 99% truth, but only truth.  If Ray makes the statement that the grass is green and I see that he is correct in saying this, I don't need to listen to someone who says "well but it is white when it is covered in snow or brown if it doesn't get enough rain" and I sure as heck don't need to debate with these people.  I read and study the bible and what Ray writes, I compare with scripture, I pray for guidance and I either agree with him or not.  If I do not, I might email asking for clarification.  If I still don't agree I continue on and do not bring it up to the forum.  None of us will ever agree with each other in this age so leave it alone, agree to disagree and move on.  This is NOT a DEBATE forum.

The forum must change to survive, we as moderator's have let you down, because we have not formulated the rules clearly and have not even enforced them the way we should, perhaps the burden is too great.   Within the following month we will make needed changes, and I'm sure we will (sadly) dissapoint some in the process.  I ask for your prayers of guidance for the future of this forum.

Craig

[prarrydog]

    You have my prayers Craig.

[Falconn003]

Change is always good and welcome.

Good job moderators.

Rodger

[Chris R]

Mercie,

I think Craig has done a great job keeping this forum running as long as he has, I beleive anyone else may have have shut the thing down by now.

Not all can be teachers, very few indeed are given insight, while some believe they are chosen to move on to maturity, still others are not given this ability as of yet.

I should say this forum is designed to help folks move forward, but is by no means i final stop for those who feel they have out-grown the teachings on Rays site.

To your question:  "just how many times can you talk about Tithing , free will ,  The Trinity and so on.?"

Is this all that is written?... and you added "and so on?"  your post "reeks" of pride... as if you have read everything, understand it, and are now ready to move on.

There is also an "air" of unforgivness , in your post for other members that have written you in private...I think for the most part, it is posts like this one you wrote, that cause confusion.

Chris R

[hillsbororiver]

Great post Craig,

It is my feeling that we all need to moderate ourselves and that will take care of the problems we seem to veer into all too often. Why are any of us here in the first place?

Searching Christ's Words for a deeper understanding brought us to Bible Truths and Ray's articles gave us food (milk & meat) for spiritual thought, many of us sought out likeminded believers to fellowship with online as it is rare indeed to find others in our neighborhoods, even cities. There are those though that enter this Forum with other ideas, either to dispute or debate or to teach, I agree with Craig that there are plenty of places online to do that but that is not the purpose of this site.

Yes, there will be times we fail to come to full agreement on certain subjects, we must strive to be mature, patient and agree to disagree, leaving behind (for a time) that particular subject and move on.

I know I have not been as vigilant as I could or should have been in keeping posts and threads truer to the purpose of this Forum, I have let some things go deciding to err on the side of caution rather than the letter of the law so to speak, but when I am inconsisitant it hurts the members and especially the other moderators. I sincerely apologize to all of you for that. Craig is right on with the formulation of new and clearer rules or even to strictly enforce the existing ones. 

Peace to all,

Joe    

[buddyjc]

I've got this huge beam hanging out of my eye!

[twig]

Dear Craig:

I'm very sorry for the trouble I started here.  My eyes are being opened and I wanted to fellowship.  I didn't read the forum rules. 
I erred, big time.  PLEASE keep this Lighthouse on.

With God's abundant love to you all,

twig. 

[Craig]

Dear Craig:

I'm very sorry for the trouble I started here.  My eyes are being opened and I wanted to fellowship.  I didn't read the forum rules. 
I erred, big time.  PLEASE keep this Lighthouse on.

With God's abundant love to you all,

twig. 

You did nothing wrong, the moderators are at fault for not having clearer rules in place.  We are working on this.
You and nearly all the others have been a blessing to all of us here.

Blessings to you

Craig

[joyful1]

I am amazed at the work being done here...but isn't this all of God? The struggle to make this forum perfect cannot totally be realized because the things of God that are of great value here are sometimes mixed with man's fleshly mind. I say...so what? It's better than most places.  I've been challenged far more in my thinking here than anywhere else.  I say...let the treasure hunt continue and trust God to do what God does....save us all! joyful1

[ciy]

Good post Joyful1.  It is all of God.  All are a blessing.  What someone means for evil God means for good.  This is a great forum as is, but do what you think.
CIY

[joyful1]

Just a note:  My post was in no way meant to be disrespectful of the moderators hard work of trying to provide a "truthful" environment for the members here. That work is the amazing thing that I see here....true care for the flock.  You guys have shown that time and time again. For this I am thankful...very thankful! joyful1

[DaleRay]

Howdy all,

I'm not much for rules.  Maybe internet forums need rules, but I'm not sure why.  If I'm reading something I don't agree with or that is confusing or upsetting to me, I can just click this little mousey thingy and go eat a cheese sandwich.  I'm not quite sure why everybody gets so huffy about all the disagreements.  Maybe I'm just not up to date when it comes to e-Protocols/etiquette, but it looks to me like y'all (moderators) are doing a great job and have everything pretty much under control.

Anyway, all I want to say is no matter what final rules get agreed upon, I certainly hope and pray this forum doesn't disappear because I'd feel almost totally disconnected and alone...very few people I know here in Southern California (hint, hint...anyone???) has any interest in any of these truths.

Please don't go away...

Thanks,

Dale Ray