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Eternal.
nightmare sasuke:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker on July 08, 2006, 07:57:04 PM ---nightmare sasuke
Let me see if I can hit this from another angle.
--- Quote ---Since Christ is the word, he must have had a beginning,
--- End quote ---
Rethink this with me. The word (which had no beginning) became Christ/the messiah/the man which was born (became flesh) two thousand years ago. The Greek word Christos/Christ is more than just the NT man, Jesus. You must expand your understanding of the definition of Christ from just 'the man' to anyone annointed. It has a dual definition which is determined by the context of scripture.
1PE 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,
Jesus (the man) wasn't in these OT saints...Christ (the spirit) was.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (The Spirit), and the Word (The Spirit) was with God, and the Word (The Spirit) was God.
Scripture says God is a Spirit and yet we know scripture mentions seven spirits 'of' God. The spirit of Christ is 'a spirit' of/from God. But this 'godly Christ spirit' is merely an 'attribute spirit'...and God is still greater than the sum of all 'His spirits'. And we also know Jesus had flesh and blood until His crucifixion...but afterward He was not only a "ghost" but also "flesh and bone" and yet "God is a Spirit".
JOH 1:14 And the Word (The Spirit) was made flesh (Jesus), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
--- Quote ---If the Logos WAS in the beginning with God, then how did he have a beginning? Without him, after all, NOTHING came into existence, not even himself.
--- End quote ---
The logos wasn't 'the he'...the he was 'the logos manifested' at the birth of the man Jesus who had 'the annointing of Christ spirit' in Him. You seem to be saying the Logos (the spirit) had a beginning because Jesus had a beginning. But the scripture is saying the word (spirit) became flesh. The question is when did the spirit become flesh? Isn't the answer...when Jesus was born?
--- Quote ---"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deu 6:4, KJV).
--- End quote ---
This says that "GOD IS ONE" not "the Lord is one". I can have many Lords in my life but eventually Jesus will be the only 'one Lord' I'm totally submitted to because He is 'of God' and all my other Lords aren't.
--- Quote ---Jesus is Yahweh and Yahweh is God. Besides Yahweh, there is no other.
--- End quote ---
I'm on a limb here because I don't think Jesus is the OT Yahweh. He isn't born yet. But the Christ spirit was in the OT and also in people. But when scripture says "The LORD said unto my Lord"....well how many Lord Gods are there?
Hope this helps.
Gotta go the lord wants me to help do something for her. ;D
--- End quote ---
Jesus (the logos) IS Yahweh. Jesus declares himself egw eimi.
Do you have AIM?
Lightseeker:
Nightmare,
--- Quote ---Jesus (the logos) IS Yahweh. Jesus declares himself egw eimi.
--- End quote ---
I don't think so. Don't even know what it is actually. :-\
Clue me in OK?
nightmare sasuke:
--- Quote from: Lightseeker on July 09, 2006, 12:37:27 AM --- Nightmare,
--- Quote ---Jesus (the logos) IS Yahweh. Jesus declares himself egw eimi.
--- End quote ---
I don't think so. Don't even know what it is actually. :-\
Clue me in OK?
--- End quote ---
Egw eimi is translated "I AM." It's used in the LXX to render the Hebrew words translated "I AM" when Yahweh declares his name to Moses.
Yahweh said: "καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν·" (Exo 3:14, LXX).
Translated: "And he said, the God, toward Moses, I AM the existing" (Me).
The Son of Man said: "ειπεν αυτοις ο ιησους αμην αμην λεγω υμιν πριν αβρααμ γενεσθαι εγω ειμι" (Joh 8:58, Textus Receptus).
Translated: "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am" (Joh 8:58, KJV).
hillsbororiver:
--- Quote from: nightmare sasuke on July 08, 2006, 06:40:53 AM ---I am not so sure that Jesus had a beginning anymore. <I>Logos</I> seems to carry the concept of wisdom. If Jesus was the Wisdom (Pro 8:22), how could the Father exist without Him? How could God exist without wisdom?
It is said the <I>Logos</I> was with God in the beginning, yet there is no mention of His creation before the beginning.
Also, nothing was made without Christ, so how could Christ himself be made?
Whether Jesus preexisted consciously or unconsciously, I do not know.
--- End quote ---
Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. (The Lord is Jesus)
This is Solomon speaking of himself here, where do you get this is speaking of the Lord? It is similiar to Jeremiah in this verse,
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
I am seeing alot of unscriptural supposition in this thread.
Joe
Lightseeker:
Nightmare,
I agree with Joe...and I may even be part of his "unscriptural supposition" comment (I don't know ???). But getting back to your previous post. I deleted too much of your quote after copying it. When I said I was clueless,I also needed to know just exactly what AIM is?
And as far as your last post. The word 'name' doesn't necessarily mean your 'moniker'. It very often pertains to 'the nature and authority' of a person/thing/god. I believe that is what's being referred to in the reference source you quoted. An example of what I mean is this:
If someone knocks at your door and says, "Open up in the name of the law!" you certainly wouldn't expect to look through the peephole and see someone with a gun and a name tag that says 'LAW' on it would you?
The same situation applys in your Exo 3:14 quote. It is not talking about Pharoah shaking in his boots because Moses knew the 'moniker' of God. It is talkng about Moses saying to Pharoah, "You may have man's authority but I have the 'authority' of God." In Exo 3:14 Moses was asking what the source of his authority was when he went to talk to pharoah, the ruler of earth. Jesus was also walking/claiming this same authority thousands of years after God spoke to Moses.
The context of John 8, which your "I am" verse comes from, is centering around them challenging the authority whereby Jesus was 'teaching' and 'doing miraculous works'. They basically said he had the devil's authority. I believe He was merely stating that His authority went back to the same I am authority Moses walked in. But in truth the spirit of Christ which was in Jesus the Christ was there with Moses. Like the verse I quoted in Peter concerning the prophets who had the spirit of christ in them.
Does this make sense? What kind of name is 'I am'. When you read it in scripture thinking it's a 'moniker' it just sounds wrong feels wrong and is weird until you have the understanding of 'authority'. It works for me anyway.
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