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Author Topic: gnosticism  (Read 4683 times)

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Revilonivek

  • Guest
gnosticism
« on: March 23, 2011, 11:32:04 PM »

what do you guys think of gnosticism?

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believerchrist100

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 12:04:14 AM »


Frankly, not much of it.  It not only denies Jesus Christ as the son of God, but claims that the world is too evil to have been created by an imperfect God. That alone is rank enough heresy not to bother with. It really has absolutely nothing to do with what's being taught here.


« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 12:31:04 AM by believerchrist100 »
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Revilonivek

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 09:46:08 PM »

I understand that that a number of gnostics accept as true that Jesus is the son of God, although most don't. But they believe Jesus existed. -Gnostics believe they carry the understanding of the truth, wrote several gospels that are almost similar to the scriptures and they predate Christianity. I know many other religion strongly believe theirs is the only way too. - I take in notice that some of the religions are similar but different to the Gnostics but with their own beliefs.  For example, Catholics believe in the holy mother, so does Gnostics.  Another example, Christianity faith teaches unconditional love, loving one another as yourself and so on, so does Gnostics.  For example:  Kingdom of God- it is the same.  There are many others too.

Gnostic Gospel of Thomas,
Jesus teaches about the kingdom of God,
Jesus said, "if those who lead you say to you, "see the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ĎIt is in the sea', the fish will precede you. Rather the kingdom is inside of you and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourself, then you will become known, and you will realize that the it is you who are the children of the living God. But if you do not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." Gospel of Thomas verse 3

Luke 17:20-23 (King James Version)
 20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
 22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
 23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

Until around third century A.D, Gnostics beliefs were  accepted or rather tolerated,  but since then, the organized church, the Christianity/catholics church decided it was hearsay and burned everything  that opposed their views. Gnostics has went through a great deal of persecution from the organized church, being fed to the lions, being murdered in the Rome circus, being burned at the stake because they happened to be different from theirs. certain Christian sects also burned everything that opposed theirs, like at the library of Alexandria with all education that could have helped people. Just so you know, I take this as a grain of salt. Like the scripture tells us to study to shew yourself approved and to seek his face. I ask for forgiveness if bringing up Gnosticism offend you guys. I only wanted to see if anyone had any opinion or useful notes that were worth giving out on the subject of Gnosticism.
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Foxx

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 10:45:05 PM »

I don't gno!   ;D

This for the win, haha!
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 06:56:47 AM »


Hi Revilonivek

Religion is a construction of a human mind that creates its own idea of who God is. Thatís what we call an idol.

God is greater than any definition of any imagination. In other words, there isnít a religion anywhere or anytime, that knows God nor understands God.

All religions dream of God and non practice Him.

Arc
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Revilonivek

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2011, 03:13:30 PM »


Hi Revilonivek

Religion is a construction of a human mind that creates its own idea of who God is. Thatís what we call an idol.

God is greater than any definition of any imagination. In other words, there isnít a religion anywhere or anytime, that knows God nor understands God.

All religions dream of God and non practice Him.

Arc


Arcturus,

Thank you so much for taking a moment in time to respond.  What I am trying to say is I understand completely that there is no religion that carries 100 percent truth but all of them have some  idea but not the whole image of God. For example, Judaism, Christianity, and Muslim, come from the same God of Moses/Abraham but they arrive to their own beliefs about Him.  Majority of religions teach unconditional love but they donítí seem to grasp it yet bec of hate blinding them.  I come across many things from Gnostics that are similar to the scriptures. Given the history of the bible, like Ray states: about 50,000 changes has been done to the bible since 1611. What about the history before then? A lot of burning of religion books, and throughout history is always fighting each other, burning each otherís religion books and calling everyoneís paper heresy.

Perhaps itís a fine idea to gain knowledge of whatever understanding Gnostics has attained, and compare it to Godí scriptures, and get further information that could have helped us understand more of what was being said in the scriptures.   What I am implying here, is Gnostics appear to have additional information to what Jesus had to say than the KJV is letting us know. Considering the history of the bible, I donít think itís a bad idea.  Of course We donít have to agree to everything Gnostics believe in, just compare whatever information are similar to the scriptures and see if they match up, that way we can learn more of what Jesus said that day, or what other authors say he said on that specific day. Like for example, the day on Mount of Olives.

Iím not looking to cause trouble- just letting yaíll know itís there, is all but It sounds like most here are already familiar with it, and probably donít want to bother with Gnosticism at all.

Again, I apologize.

Blessings and Peace,

Denise
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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 03:30:27 PM »




Hi Denise

Silence is golden and into golden silence I recieve your thoughts with welcome. Thank you for thinking.

Arc
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Duane

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2011, 04:15:21 PM »

Revalonovic...While I can appreciate your desire to learn, I fear that learning OUTSIDE the
Bible and then trying to blend it in, as if God FORGOT to include everything He wanted in the Bible is dangerous. 
Consider Revelation 22: 18-19 "But I testify to anyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things that are written in this book."
I have NO IDEA how the various editings of the KJV and the elimination of the Apocriphal books enter in here, but I have to assume that if they were meant to be in they would be.
Meanwhile, if you concentrate on "mastering" just the LOF series you will keep so busy that
Gnosticism studies will be crowded out.  Hope this helps.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2011, 04:59:16 PM »


Hi Denise,

Nobody here can tell you not to study whatever you please, if you think it will lead you to more truth. But I do not read other people's philosophies of religion, because I think very few (including myself) have the discernment needed to ferret out the truth from those works. We see Ray do it and it looks so easy. I also believe if not very careful you can be lead down a rabbit hole, that tangles a bit of truth in with much lies and you lose your way. I've seen this happen.

You make think (I'm not saying you do, just a comment) that the Scriptures are limited and all truth can not be in them, I would disagree with that. I think the Scripture that we have, even in these imperfect translation, is all we need. I look as the Bible as God providing a base of instruction, He can use this to reveal all truth, it's all in there. Actually He doesn't need anything at all, but He has given us this hard copy of the Word to unite us with. Sometimes I think we are too eager for 'new' revelations to titillate us, when we have a treasure trove right here  :)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: gnosticism
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2011, 05:36:43 PM »

If there is an -ism attached to it, that's enough reason for me to not want to take it into my soul.   :D

Since I was raised a baptist/evangelical and not a gnostic, then my primary goal in life is to finish vomiting out what I've already ingested and never, by the Grace of God, to ever return to it.  If there are elements of "gnosticism" in that vomit (pardon the expression), then I think the Lord will empty me of them by putting more truth into me and bringing me to obedience in my own life rather than investigating somebody else's theology.  I'd prefer to let those God has blinded with "Gnosticism" to deal with their own issues in 'coming out of her', especially since I'm not a teacher charged with exposing every contradiction.  I've got my own beams to remove and repenting to do.    

I believe we already have the Scripture we are supposed to have.  God is not running damage control or silently wishing we had more light.  Mankind is not blind (and neither was I) by a lack of Scripture, but by the will of God.  There are aspects of all religions that have nuggets of 'true' in them.  Same thing with fiction, history, poetry, and Oprah.  As I said in another thread recently, I reckon there is enough edible food in any pigpen to keep the second son alive, though he has to sift through a lot of manure and mud to get to it.

That's just me, though.    
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 09:13:28 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Aatos

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 05:04:24 PM »

I'll simply post the "#1 Gnostic quote" according to a few sites I've been to...

From "The Gospel of Thomas":
"Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too
may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female
who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."


The root problem I have with gnosticism is that it's pretentious, and bloated.  If religions are like groups of school, or college students, then Gnosticism are the students that look way too deeply into things, and are very secretive about their findings.   Of course they'll say that the above quote doesn't actually mean what it says, and for all we know the quote might as well mean that one should eat dessert for dinner.

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Revilonivek

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 08:01:53 PM »

I'll simply post the "#1 Gnostic quote" according to a few sites I've been to...

From "The Gospel of Thomas":
"Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too
may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female
who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

The root problem I have with gnosticism is that it's pretentious, and bloated.  If religions are like groups of school, or college students, then Gnosticism are the students that look way too deeply into things, and are very secretive about their findings.   Of course they'll say that the above quote doesn't actually mean what it says, and for all we know the quote might as well mean that one should eat dessert for dinner.


In this saying, Jesus shows that women are equal to men by accepting them as disciples and teaching them about God. He is simply telling his male
disciples, that the women are equal.

This is the real reason it wasn't included in the KJV. It taught equality of men and women. went against their doctrine.

In jesus' time, women aren't allowed to speak and sit way in the back in the synagogues- jews back then throughout the bible treat their animals better than their women. Jesus on the other hand, always treated women as his equal. Just compare what Jesus did for the women, he healed a woman while on her menses, he talked to a foreign woman, etc and all of them were forbidden by law for the jews.
 
Jesus does not treat women as inferior creatures or as property, he treats them like people. Jesus is a Jew who claims to be placed on earth, as the Son of God, to offer all people redemption. His message is a revolutionary one because it radically changes the message traditionally attributed to God by the Jewish people. Previously, the almighty God favoured Jewish men as his chosen people. Jesus was making salvation, and God, available to all people, whether man or woman, Jew or gentile. Jesus overthrew hundreds of years of Jewish law and custom by consistently treating men and women equally. He not only treated women with respect but he also represented women as righteous people in his stories. He uses this authority to spread the good news to men and women. The four gospels of Jesus, purportedly written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are overflowing with examples of Christís fair treatment of women.

Did you know that the entire KJV was ordained by the catholic church, by pope Damascus. Catholic church has to recognize and determine the canon of the NEw and old Testament in the year 382 at the council of Rome under Pope Damascus I You have to accept their say so on the authenticity of the entire bible. They pick and choose what they want, what they feel is more fitting for their doctrine, leaving the others out. Even the scripture on the Trinty was inserted by Pope Damacnus.

some  of the gospels were composed decades after Jesus resecurrted to Heaven, and the gospels put together were dated to be around 4th century. we don't even have the originals. And this putting together of the bible  is after church heresy hunters and book burners destroyed everything they saw as a threat. The only other sources outside of fragments are the Dead Sea Scrolls that do nothing for New Testament Christianity, and the Nag Hammadi Gospels (Gnostic?) which date about the same time and contradict the official version of Christianity. We have no originals to go by and have to take their "say-so" for it. Some of the gospels were written by Greeks, who haven't met Jesus.

in around 1200 Ad, Gnostics were the larger population in Europe- and was slaughtered on the command by Pope Innocent III largely because of their gnostic heresy. during that time, catholics/christians felt threatened by gnostics and jews bec of their "heresay"

In my opinion, christianity is an combination of gnostics and judaism.

Gnosticism differs from "official" Christianity in two important respects: 1) Gnostics believed the material world was created as evil and corrupted, and 2) Jesus was a spirit, not actual flesh. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit in both Gnosticism and Christianity, but in Gnosticism the Holy Spirit was the "feminine" or female aspect of God. Thus the Holy Spirit was the true "mother" of Jesus.

Where Christianity and Gnosticism differ from Judaism is who or what created the Universe. Both reject the idea that God (the Jewish one) created the universe and claim other beings did it. Gnostics differed claiming Jesus was a spirit.

so its not a bad idea to explore other gnostics gospels and find out why it wasn't included in the kjv. It wasnt included largely because it wasn't inspired by the "catholic church" back then.

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mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2011, 09:19:14 PM »

Revilonivek/Denise,

I'm starting to come under the impression that you've started this thread just to teach the merits of Gnosticism. But that's a problem that goes beyond the rules of the forum, and I'll try to explain:

The one thing that has drawn Ray and the members of this forum together is seeking out the Truth. No matter how many members I have met or spoken with online, that is always the one constant. We didn't come together because of age, race, sex, church affiliation/denomination, or even what part of the world we live in. It has, and hopefully will continue to be, a constant desire of the truth regarding The Father, His Son Jesus, and what they have in store for the whole human race.

We're not here to determine what we should keep (if any) from Christianity, Judaism, Gnosticism, or any other religious belief. We're actually trying to turn away from all these false doctrines, as none have the Truth. If they did, we would not be called to come out of them.

If you want to continue with a defense of any of these doctrines, the Internet is littered with websites that will let you do so to your heart's content. But Bible Truths is not one of them. Hope you understand


Marques
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2011, 11:56:41 PM »


Hi Denise,

Ray had a whole conference that he dedicated to 'How We Got The Bible.' He spent a whole year researching, countless hours, to put that material together. So don't think we have no idea how we got the Bible. What we have in a Bible, translation error and all, is everything God needs to teach us, as He will provide a teacher to bridge the gap there might be.

This is from the transcript of 'How We Got The Bible,' it should give you some idea of how the New Testament was canonized.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html ------

Isaiah 8:16  Bind up the testimony, seal the Law among My disciples.

But thatís a prophecy for when Messiah comes. So there is a statement that He will bind up the testimony of God, and seal the Law among My disciples. So just keep that in mind as a starting point in the Old Testament, for how God is going to bring about this Scripture of the New Testament.

So we have got 22 books with the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet in the Old TestamentNow that God has a new revelation, He is going to use a new language. At least as far as we know the language was Greek But some insist Matthew was written in Hebrew, we donít know that for a fact. I donít think we can prove that.  

But just like Ezra and Nehemiah closed out the Old Testament canon, we are going to see that Peter and John close out the New Testament.

Now the Catholic church knew that the canon was complete long before they came on the scene with their Ecumenical Councils. II Peter makes it clear that Peter knew what was Scripture, and John finalized everything. Just as Ezra penned the last book (II Chronicles) of the Old Testament, John penned the Last book of the New Testament (Revelation).

Many things were known to be true and of God, long before they were officially and publicly canonized or written down in books by Godís high servants.
v
v
Because there was apostasy coming in the church. There is crime and corruption entering in; false prophets, antichrists, strong delusions. It says men shall be lovers of themselves, disobedient, proud, vain, booster, lovers of pleasure (II Tim. 3) and all of these things are coming into the church. So they need to be sure that everybody knows what is the Truth. Now they are going to set aside the books for the final canonization, as what are the Scriptures.

Now look a little bit at what we can gleam, there are all kinds of outside information, tradition and some history. There are traditions of the Jews that I could bring in here, but I wanted to stick pretty much just to the Scriptures. So we can see from the Scripture how and why God brought everything together.
v
v
The Catholic Church did not canonize the Scriptures, nor did the Protestant Church canonize the Scriptures. They were already canonized by God's servants hundreds of years earlier!
v
v
II Peter 3:16  as also in ALL his epistles, speaking in them of these things;

What did Peter know about ďall his (Paulís) epistlesĒ? Because Peter had them. He had them all. How did he get them?

II Tim. 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with you; for he is useful to me for ministering.
v. 12 But Tychicus I sent to Ephesus.
v. 13 The cloak that I left at Troas with Carpus, bring when thou come, and the books, ESPECIALLY THE PARCHMENTS.

These are Paulís letters. These are not the books, but the vellums, these are his epistles. Why would he want all his epistles? Didnít he know what he said? Well he knows his time is near the end and Paul knows what he has written is Scripture. We read many Scripture showing that he knew that he was writing ĎBible versesí if you will.  
Now Paul wants Mark to come and bring those letters, because heís going to go through them. In fact heís going to edit some of them.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to the saints that are at Ephesus,

It doesnít just say to the saints of God, but ďthat are in Ephesus,Ē  That was editorialized, because his first letters apparently do not contain that. But then he edited it, so that they would know where this letter went.  
Of course Ephesus was really the head quarters for the Asian church.  
Remember there are 7 churches on a mail route; Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea. But the head church was always in Ephesus.  

So he says, bring the parchments Ďespeciallyí I want those, these were Paulís epistles. Now Mark returned to Peter in Babylon. Remember Peter wrote from Babylon.

 II Peter 5:13 The church is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.

So Paul said sent Mark and be sure to bring the vellums and he must have brought them. Paul then edits them and says these are the ones. He started with the most important one of all for basic information, the book of Romans. It sets the doctrinal standards, but itís mostly milk as far as doctrine goes. This leads up to his last epistles written from prison, Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians. These are the most spiritually strong Scripture in the whole bible.  

Now Mark is back in Babylon with Peter and then when we go to II Peter, guess what? Peter has all of Paulís epistles. There was a reason why Mark got them and took them to Paul. Then Paul sent them with Mark and he gave them to Peter.  Now Peter has got them all, at least all the ones that Paul wanted to be sent to him. So Peter is definitely in charge of the Scriptures and here he talks about his epistles and the OTHER Scriptures. So he knows what the other Scriptures are.  

So obviously the Apostles had all the Scriptures.
---------------------------------------------------------

This is only a small part of what Ray explains at that conference about how they canonized the NT. At the very least you should consider what Ray teaches before advocating another source.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 01:19:00 AM by Kat »
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Revilonivek

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2011, 12:31:55 AM »


Hi Denise,

Ray had a whole conference that he dedicated to 'How We Got The Bible.' He spent a whole year researching, countless hours, to put that material together. So don't think we have no idea how we got the Bible. What we have in a Bible, translation error and all, is everything God needs to teach us, as He will provide a teacher to bridge the gap there might be.

This is from the transcript of 'How We Got The Bible,' it should give you some idea of how the New Testament was canonized.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html ------

Isaiah 8:16  Bind up the testimony, seal the Law among My disciples.

But thatís a prophecy for when Messiah comes. So there is a statement that He will bind up the testimony of God, and seal the Law among My disciples. So just keep that in mind as a starting point in the Old Testament, for how God is going to bring about this Scripture of the New Testament.

So we have got 22 books with the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet in the Old TestamentNow that God has a new revelation, He is going to use a new language. At least as far as we know the language was Greek But some insist Matthew was written in Hebrew, we donít know that for a fact. I donít think we can prove that.  

But just like Ezra and Nehemiah closed out the Old Testament canon, we are going to see that Peter and John close out the New Testament.

Now the Catholic church knew that the canon was complete long before they came on the scene with their Ecumenical Councils. II Peter makes it clear that Peter knew what was Scripture, and John finalized everything. Just as Ezra penned the last book (II Chronicles) of the Old Testament, John penned the Last book of the New Testament (Revelation).

Many things were known to be true and of God, long before they were officially and publicly canonized or written down in books by Godís high servants.
v
v
Because there was apostasy coming in the church. There is crime and corruption entering in; false prophets, antichrists, strong delusions. It says men shall be lovers of themselves, disobedient, proud, vain, booster, lovers of pleasure (II Tim. 3) and all of these things are coming into the church. So they need to be sure that everybody knows what is the Truth. Now they are going to set aside the books for the final canonization, as what are the Scriptures.

Now look a little bit at what we can gleam, there are all kinds of outside information, tradition and some history. There are traditions of the Jews that I could bring in here, but I wanted to stick pretty much just to the Scriptures. So we can see from the Scripture how and why God brought everything together.
v
v
The Catholic Church did not canonize the Scriptures, nor did the Protestant Church canonize the Scriptures. They were already canonized by God's servants hundreds of years earlier!
v
v
II Tim. 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with you; for he is useful to me for ministering.
v. 12 But Tychicus I sent to Ephesus.
v. 13 The cloak that I left at Troas with Carpus, bring when thou come, and the books, ESPECIALLY THE PARCHMENTS.

These are Paulís letters. These are not the books, but the vellums, these are his epistles. Why would he want all his epistles? Didnít he know what he said? Well he knows his time is near the end and Paul knows what he has written is Scripture. We read many Scripture showing that he knew that he was writing ĎBible versesí if you will.  
Now Paul wants Mark to come and bring those letters, because heís going to go through them. In fact heís going to edit some of them.
v
v
II Peter 3:16  as also in ALL his epistles, speaking in them of these things;

What did Peter know about ďall his (Paulís) epistlesĒ? Because Peter had them. He had them all. How did he get them?

II Tim. 4:11 Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with you; for he is useful to me for ministering.
v. 12 But Tychicus I sent to Ephesus.
v. 13 The cloak that I left at Troas with Carpus, bring when thou come, and the books, ESPECIALLY THE PARCHMENTS.

These are Paulís letters. These are not the books, but the vellums, these are his epistles. Why would he want all his epistles? Didnít he know what he said? Well he knows his time is near the end and Paul knows what he has written is Scripture. We read many Scripture showing that he knew that he was writing ĎBible versesí if you will.  
Now Paul wants Mark to come and bring those letters, because heís going to go through them. In fact heís going to edit some of them.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus through the will of God, to the saints that are at Ephesus,

It doesnít just say to the saints of God, but ďthat are in Ephesus,Ē  That was editorialized, because his first letters apparently do not contain that. But then he edited it, so that they would know where this letter went.  
Of course Ephesus was really the head quarters for the Asian church.  
Remember there are 7 churches on a mail route; Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea. But the head church was always in Ephesus.  

So he says, bring the parchments Ďespeciallyí I want those, these were Paulís epistles. Now Mark returned to Peter in Babylon. Remember Peter wrote from Babylon.

 II Peter 5:13 The church is in Babylon, elect together with you, greets you; and so does Mark my son.

So Paul said sent Mark and be sure to bring the vellums and he must have brought them. Paul then edits them and says these are the ones. He started with the most important one of all for basic information, the book of Romans. It sets the doctrinal standards, but itís mostly milk as far as doctrine goes. This leads up to his last epistles written from prison, Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians. These are the most spiritually strong Scripture in the whole bible.  

Now Mark is back in Babylon with Peter and then when we go to II Peter, guess what? Peter has all of Paulís epistles. There was a reason why Mark got them and took them to Paul. Then Paul sent them with Mark and he gave them to Peter.  Now Peter has got them all, at least all the ones that Paul wanted to be sent to him. So Peter is definitely in charge of the Scriptures and here he talks about his epistles and the OTHER Scriptures. So he knows what the other Scriptures are.  

So obviously the Apostles had all the Scriptures.
---------------------------------------------------------

This is only a small part of what Ray explains at that conference about how they canonized the NT. At the very least you should consider what Ray teaches before advocating another source.

mercy, peace and love
Kat





The apostles did canolize the originals, and the Catholics has the originals,  We don't have access to them.  the Catholics were the ones who decided which ones of the books to be added, in the 4th century which later  became the kjv. You can look it up.

I love studying history. I don't stand by any religion(belief)  I never felt God would limit himself to just the kjv. He is everywhere.  I learned that religions and their bibles restrict, keep people from truly knowing God. Jesus never identified with any religion but did identify with the least of the people, unclean in the eyes of jews, , outcasts(samartians(other religion in the eyes of jews, ), the poor, the weak, the sick, pretty much all people that a religion rejected.   doctrines is what keeps us from knowing God and kept us apart from love.

I will abstain from discussing history regarding the bible on this forum.   I thought it was fascinating and thought id share. Again, I apologize. My intention is pure and want to maintain peace. I love coming to this forum because I have learned so much.


Blessings,
Denise



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Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: gnosticism
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2011, 12:07:28 PM »

What shines so beautifully through, with forthright resolution, if not upon every single page written by Ray Smith, is God IS Sovereign.
 
Humans put God into their minds and create all manner of religion. This is how it has been from the beginning.  God is not an object. God is Supreme, Sovereign subjective thinking Creating Creator ~ any wonder His thoughts are higher than mans who would put God into the compartment of his own ideas, and religious packages, leaving actually everything that is in Godís mind, is left out, including himself, letting only little bits in to make up a jig saw puzzle that can never fit Truth and religion that can never contain God. So begins war.

No one is created that God did not have in His mind to create. 

God as an object of the homo sapiens mind, begins the nightmare called religion. God has not created anything outside of His power and purpose, plan and intent.  Thatís good news!

Gen 3:9  And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?.....is not stated by God because God did not know where Adam was! Ref L Ray Smith.

Humans think objectively. This sounds nice, correct and logical yet it is not. God is not an object. God enters the mind of man, and idols of religion are set up to worship a HUMAN IDEA of God.

God bless us all, each and every One.
Arc
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