Hi Pat,
Here are a few emails that should help.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html ------------------------------
It is BOTH. Listen: God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE. That's it. That's all there is to it. That IS the principle. That IS the Truth. That IS what the Bible teaches. It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices." You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation. It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."
I hardly know what else to tell you. God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams. They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God. So then we don't make choices, right? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES. It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see. Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED. And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that? He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.
So, does God FORCE EVIL MEN TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS? Well, does He? Does God being Sovereign prove that God forces evil men to rape little girls? That's what evil theologians deduce from the truth of no free will. They turn the Sovereignty of God into one of the biggest evils in the universe. If God is Sovereign, then God must be EVIL, because there is so much evil in the world, and God is in control of all things, right? Wrong, wrong, wrong! Man makes all his own choices. Just because they are CAUSED does not mean that he does not make them. He is, in fact, CAUSED TO MAKE HIS CHOICES. But God does not directly do this. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things. And who created the Devil? That's right, that One Who is Sovereign and in charge of all things. Evil men like raping just like evil theologians like stealing widow's social security money. God doesn't make them do it--THEY LIKE TO DO IT. They volunteer with little outside influence. God made humanity this way. He created them spiritually weak. Eve couldn't help but sin. God has a good purpose and God will straighten it all out in the end.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=b3h9r4nj8rlko4kkv320eoqea3&/topic,7895.0.html ---
We do have a will, but it is not "FREE" to original anything that does not have a cause. Most people who argue that we have free will have not a clue as to what free will is. "Free will" is not "will." "Free choice" is not "choice." All of our choices have a cause, even if we don't know what it was, therefore no choice that is made is "free" to not have been made. Why are all of these commandments and instruction for man to follow in the Scriptures if man DOES HAVE A FREE WILL? The penalties for not keeping commandments is a CAUSE for keeping it. Something that "CAUSES" you to keep a commandment, is NOT "FREE" TO NOT KEEP IT. I know, it takes more than a few hundred hours of meditation to understand it properly.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1493.0.html -----------------------------------------
God plainly speaks at times and at others He speaks in mysteries. Here is a plain statement from God that explains the mystrious ones: "For My thought ARE NOT your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, SO [in like manner] are My ways HIGHER than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isa. 55:8-9).
Now there IS the answer, yet we will not accept that answer because we don't understand that answer. Why then do you and most of the world have a problem with God and His operation of things, and I don't? Why do you use the "CONTRADICTION" and I don't. Is there any way to bridge this dichotomy of God's thoughts and our thoughts? Yes there is: "Let this MIND BE IN Y-O-U, which was also in Christ Jesus..." (Phil. 2:5).
Without the mind of God, we will never understand the spiritual things of God. They will ALWAYS seem like "foolishness" to the carnal mind. "But the natural man receives NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED" (I Cor. 2:14).
As it is absolutely Scripturally true that man has no free will, and therefore is always subject to the higther powers that be, when people begin to see this truth, they often balk at it and feel that God is unfair and that man is being judged for things that God MADE HIM DO AGAINST HIS WILL. When in reality, NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!!
Most of the human race has always believed that it possesses "free will." And so as long as any man believes this falsehood, he is operating in his own little world with absolutely no grudge against God for his personal decisions. But when he begins to see that he has no free will, he then does begin to think that he has a justifiable grudge against God for MAKING HIM SIN. He was wrong when he thought that he had free will, and he is just as wrong when he thinks that the only alternative is that God MAKES HIM SIN AGAINST HIS OWN WILL.
I have stated many times that God DOES NOT MAKE OR FORCE ANYONE TO SIN AGAINST HIS OWN WILL--MAN DESIRES TO SIN, WANTS TO SIN, AND THEREFORE VOLUNTEERS TO SIN. God did not FORCE or MAKE Eve eat of the forbidden fruit. Her own DESIRES caused her to lust and eat of the forbidden fruit.
And so the real question is: "Does God have the right to make mankind subject to the desires of their own heart?" Think about it, as I have, for a few thousand hours, and maybe God will grant to you the spiritual understanding of this matter.
Hundreds of totally deceived and spiritually blind Christians have told me that: "God does not want robots to love Him--He desires people to love Him by their OWN FREE WILL." Oh really? And can the carnal mind indeed love God by its own nature; its own heart; its own desires? NO IT CAN'T. And so the very thing that Christians demand as necessary for our love for God to be genuine, is the very thing that totally disqualifies it from being genuine. The natural mind is totally incapable of loving God: "For the carnal mind is enmity [deep-seated HATRED] AGAINST GOD..." (Rom. 8:7).
It all starts with God, not with us: "We love Him [God] because He FIRST LOVED US" (I John 4:19).
God created mankind spiritually WEAK--subject to the lusts and sins of his own heart, so that man will learn that he CANNOT love God first; he cannot obey spiritual laws and commandments; he cannot please God; he cannot accomplish anything of lasting value through his wicked and deceitful heart. (Jer. 17:9). And therefore God's ways will justify His means. The rewards and the blessings are not even to be compared with the glory that God is creating in the human race (Rom. 8:18).
And so here is the answer to your question:
BEFORE spiritual conversion man FALSELY THINKS that he has free will and is for all intent and purpose a god unto himself.
AFTER spiritual conversion man will be eternally thankful that God never gave us such a foolish concept as "free will," or he would never ever reach the marvelous heights of power and glory that God has in mind for him.
And presently, you and some few others, are in between these two extremes of human understanding. I will pray for God to grand to you a "spirit of wisdom" so that you will comprehend and apprehend the marvelous and mysterious working of our God.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=b3h9r4nj8rlko4kkv320eoqea3&/topic,6100.0.html ---
Yes, this is God's creation, God's Universe. He made it and all that in it is. He also made humanity, and He made them spiritual weak, not spiritually strong, so when confronted with a temptation to SIN, humanity SINS. He sins VOLUNTARILY FROM HIS PERVERTED HEART. No one, not even God FORCES HIM TO SIN AGAINST HIS WILL. It is your WILL TO SIN whether you feel good or bad about it or the results. Man has a will, this has never been denied. But.......BUT, man's will is not free from causality. The lust of the flesh and the lest of the eyes and the pride of life are SIN (I John 2:15-16). Yet men DESIRE AND WILL from the HEART to do these sinful things. For this he must be JUDGED. It matter not whether he could have avoided the circumstances and lust that caused him to sin. The fact is that he did si n, and he desired to sin FROM HIS HEART. This is the thing that must be CHANGED--his corrupt heart. And it is not a sin on God's part for making humanity so spiritually weak that they would sin and also DESIRE FROM THEIR HEART to sin. It is a way and means to a greater good. God is "makING humanity in HIS SPIRITUAL IMAGE, and the sins and foolishness of humanity are a part of the means to that grant design and goal.
True, most of humanity faults God for this grand plan and purpose, but that attitude will also be judged and corrected in time.
God be with you,
Ray
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Topic: Free will (Read 5171 times)