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Greatest Challenge - own house

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bob:
DougE6, Amen and Amen. Bob, Leesburg FL.

daywalker:

--- Quote from: Grace on April 03, 2011, 02:56:52 PM ---I already see an area I typed in this post that needs to be corrected....!  :o


--- Quote ---He will show you even if you mess up and do the wrong thing.  He always knows how to get people back on the right path.
--- End quote ---

We don't "mess up" I guess.  I still have a long way to go.  Just an example of how much the heresies taught can have a lasting effect from wrong teaching.

--- End quote ---

On the contrary, we "mess up" all the time. That's what "sin" means--to miss the mark, make a mistake, i.e. "mess up". Just because we were 'caused' to do it by various influences surrounding us, and just because God already 'knew' in advance that we would do it, doesn't mean we didn't "mess up". Hope this helps  :D

Marky Mark:

--- Quote ---are you counseling?  Hopefully not too hard a line?
--- End quote ---

1Jn 5:2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


Hello DougE6.

I do not see how loving your spouse [or to love in general] correlates to not coming out of the babylonian system of things.Are you saying that we must stay grounded in the evil doctrine of the worldly church in order to have approval of our wife,kids,friends or neighbors? To leave behind our carnal way of thinking and to keep His Spiritual Commandments is how we are to give God all of the Praise and Glory.This is the greatest act of love a man can do for His Creator.The general principles that you speak of in the Scripture I posted are for the Spiritually mature,not babes in Christ [I am assuming that tau has read Rays material]. We must come out of her and stay out of her if we are to finish the race,and be faithful to the end. If God has you in the church of satan to soothe the non believer,well,that's ok, because that is where God will have you to be.But when we do not abide in His Word, the truths that we have been given will also be taken away if we do not obey the Holy Spirit.

 When we obey God in Spirit and Truth that is true love that we can rejoice in. Just as the wife must submit to the husband so shall the husband and the wife submit to Christ,he is our head and we are the body.When Jesus is the focus of our lives then and only then can one have a full understanding of what it is to love our family members as we ought.If we have a true yearning and commitment to follow Christ and to love Him as we should,we then can begin to live by every word of Christ.

When we put the physical in front of the Spiritual the only thing left is judgement.All Scripture is for the admonition of Gods true Faithful and when one lives His words from without and not from within, the Door in the heavens cannot be opened and His True doctrine cannot be given.As Ray has said so often once you learn a Spiritual Truth,don't ever let it go.To me that is some sound advice from a sound teacher.


Peace...Mark

DougE6:

--- Quote ---If God has you in the church of satan
--- End quote ---


OK, Hi Mark :)
How do you know if I could/might/possibly be one of these?.. ???

Rev 3:4  Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.  Rev 3:5  The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

or these? ???....Rev 3:10  Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

or these? ???....Rev 3:12  The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.

or these? ???... Rev 2:10  Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life....

or these? ???  Rev 2:13  "'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Or, maybe these? ???.....Rev 2:24  But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden. Rev 2:25  Only hold fast what you have until I come.
Rev 2:26  The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations,

In case it was not understood, these are taken from the seven churches where Jesus was walking in their midst. He gave correction and praise, both. And some received both praise and correction, at the same time.

Notice Jesus has some good things to say about some of the people in some of these churches.  How is this possible? Even in these churches where satans throne is. He clearly said some had the "right stuff" to rule with him. Some had the right doctrines, the right heart, the right teachings.  Is being  physically present in a Church going to negate my heart, my love, my obedience, my holding on to Him?  Is the physical building that strong? I say that only rhetorically.  I know you know the answer. You know the building, the physical is not the Spiritual.

I am only speaking like this cause of what I took as your implication, in that highlited statement.  You do not understand how I can out of Love do what I do, and give forbearance to my wife, or others,  and still remain out of babylon.  Fine. But I do. And I am at peace that Jesus will judge all motives and hearts someday.  Including mine :-[  And He will decide who was actually in Babylon and who wasn't.  Actually, to the point, He will judge our works. And whether our works were motivated by love, and done in love, and put others before ourselves.

I do not have any quarrel with your understanding of how we are to OBEY Jesus. I so agree with that. I just do not think you understand/see that love is higher than all doctrine in the SAME manner as I do.  So we have different viewpoints.  I myself, would rather be totally obedient to Him in love and love all others as He does, than have all the correct doctrinal understanding in the world.  And this is from one who painfully wrestled for 17 years, because of my love for my fellow man, to wrest myself from the doctrine of eternal torment, because it was too horrible for me to hold, even though I was raised and believed fully in the strictest fundamentalist baptist church doctrine out there, for YEARS, from the tender age of 12.  And this was even before I read any of Ray Smiths wonderful writings. I am grateful to Ray for filling in many of the gaps I would never been able to. But even with all that, I still would rather have love for Christ, shed abroad in my heart, motivating me to pure obedience, to loving righteousness and hating wickedness,  dying to myself, than have all the correct understandings that I now have (except that I could not EVER believe in eternal punishment, for that belief was destroying me) and not have this love and obey just because it was a rule.  I think true spirituality is measured in the depth of your dying to self and the amount of how much you obey Christ and do His works, out of Love.

Stacey:
Mat 5:43  Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:
Mat 5:44 but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;
Mat 5:45 that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat 5:46  For if ye love them that love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47  And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same?
Mat 5:48  Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Christendom is the enemy of the truth, not by free will but being caused to be that way, they are the enemy of the truth. We are commanded to love them and to not hold them in contempt. To go to the church building with your wife might not be the husbands or wife's best choice of places to be but knowing that God will work it out for him or her in His time, is it not reason enough for the husband to love his wife in her time of weakness of the truth and endure for a season together with her the tasteless tales of Christendom? I think so.

Are we concerned that we might be braking or not keeping one of the commandments?

Mat 22:35  And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, trying him:
Mat 22:36  Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37  And he said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38  This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39  And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Mat 22:40  On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

We follow all of the commandments if we follow these two. Personally, I don't get hung up on whether or not I'm slipping on a commandment or missing the mark here or there since knowing that I am striving to follow these two.

Where was Jesus when He answered the Scribes and Pharisees? I'd say right smack in the middle of the church. He loved them all, He went to church with what would some day be His wife. Knowing full well her weakness but enduring it all, suffering to the bitter end knowing the outcome will be glorious in that she would come around to the knowledge of the truth.

Joh 15:13  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Jesus went the distance for a unbelieving bride. Can we not do the same for the weaker of the two in our marriages? I think so.

Are there consequences for going to church. Sure there are. It would not be a pleasant place to be for any of us that are believers of the truth. However, Jesus is the keeper of our salvation, not us. He is the builder of it all, the One that laid the ground work and the Finisher of the whole thing. We cannot guard against our salvation by not attending the church building. We cannot save our soul by keeping away from certain things, or this and that. Nope, Jesus is the keeper. In the end, it wont matter whether or not we attended church with our un-believing husbands or wives, why? Because,

Rom 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39  nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I am full aware that we are commanded to "come out of her". We ARE "out of her" whether we go to the church building or not. It makes no difference. God has dragged us out of her. That much is done. We cannot un-do that part by going to the church building.

Tau you ask,

 "I want to know is it okay to still go with my wife (show of support) even if I generally find church teaching a bit tolarable if taken with a pinch of salt."

My opinion is yes it is OK.

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