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[JohnMichael]

I know I'm a long ways off, but I wrestle with understanding this: How can the elect be disqualified, when chosen, if God is Sovereign and His Will is always done whether man likes it or not? I'm not trying to sow discord - I really want to understand.

God is Sovereign. God's Will will not return to Him void. God calls many and chooses few. The elect/chosen are predestined by God.

How then can a chosen turn from the plow or willingly, willfully sin if God is in control at all times? Man doesn't have free will, so God's will is done - always.

Please help me understand.

Thanks,
John

[Kat]

Hi JohnMichael,

My thinking has been moving towards having more assurance. We can have comfort in knowing that Jesus Christ says those He has chosen are "sealed" and have a "guarantee, they are safe in His hand from falling away.
 
John 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me;
v. 28  and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.
v. 29  My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
v. 30  I and the Father are one."

Eph 1:13  In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
v. 14  who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

What is interesting is we know that God has foreknowledge of all things, well He knows who are His before they are even born, Scripture says we are "given us in Christ Jesus before the world began."

2Tim 1:9  Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

But there is reason for us to continue and "fight the good fight" (1Ti 6:12), and if we are to stay in the race, then we must keep running.

1Co 9:24  Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.

Why would there be Scripture warning us, unless there are those that will lose their reward. God certainly is aware of these that will leave/fall away from this truth, indeed it is their destiny. So we do need to be aware the Holy Spirit can be quenched.

1Th 5:19  Do not quench the Spirit.

G4570 sbennumi - quench - to extinguish (literally or figuratively): - go out, quench.

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
v. 5  and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
v. 6  if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Now this Scripture is speaking of someone that has been "enlightened," they have been given understanding of the truth and for whatever reason they fall away and leave this truth behind. This Scripture also says they can not be brought back into the truth in this age, they will be in the second resurrection. Sometimes I think I can see the parable of the sower and the seed playing out in those coming to this truth. Quite a few embrace it for a time, but for one reason or another a lot fall away.  For these that don't make it to the end I wonder if they will even be too concerned about it, at the time, maybe they just drift away and they don't even really know what they almost had.

So what I'm thinking is we should have confidence in His guarantee/earnest of the Spirit, because we should be aware if the Spirit is indwelling and that should fill us with hope for the first resurrection. But there might be a real problem if one should become complacent.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[JohnMichael]

That does make a lot more sense. Thank you, Kat.

On a side note: The parable of the Sower does make more sense now.

Mark 4:3-8 (KJV) Behold, there went out a sower to sow: And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the birds of the air came and devoured it up. And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth: But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. And some fell among thorns, the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit. And other fell on good ground, did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, some a hundred. He said unto them, He that has ears to hear, let him hear.

The seed(truth) that fell upon stony ground (unbeliever)
The seed(truth) that fell among thorns (called)
The seed(truth) that fell on good ground (chosen)

A little light bulb just flickered

[judith collier]

Hi Kat, that word complacent always suggested to me the words "yeah" or "so"  Didn't Jesus say he would rather us be hot or cold than lukewarm or you could say complacent. That's scary because there are times I have been complacent. Never totally cold. But why would cold be better than complacent??
Just trying to think but as usual it's not going too good.
love, judy

[Kat]

Hi Judy,

Complacent - feeling or showing an often excessive or unjustified satisfaction and pleasure in one's status, possessions, or attainments. self-contented, self-pleased, self-satisfied, smug. (Merriam-Webster)

That word is quite the opposite of humble and it would seem to me if a believer had these feelings, they might not actually be an elect (those guaranteed). Because those that are the Elect will not be lost, but I'm thinking there will be those that come among the Elect and think they are chosen when they actually are not and becoming complacent might indicate that. We do have another parable that might express this thought, the wheat and the tares.

Mat 13:24  Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field;
v. 25  but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
v. 26  But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
v. 27  So the servants of the owner came and said to him, "Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
v. 28  He said to them, "An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, "Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
v. 29  But he said, "No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
v. 30  Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.""'

But this does not need to make you doubtful. Because a bother recently made a good point and that is by our fruit we can know.

Gal 5:22-23  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Mat 7:17  Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
v. 18  A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
v. 19  Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
v. 20  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

We know if God is developing these fruit in our lives and that can give us assurance.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[judith collier]

kat thanks, i'm grateful and don't have that many possessions, etc. and not a whole lot of fruit but some. judy