> General Discussions
Today in paradise?
chumkin:
--- Quote from: TimothyVI on July 12, 2006, 02:31:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: chumkin on July 12, 2006, 09:24:51 AM ---in luke it does not say today, it say to day,
lets translate chumkin style :D
on this day you will be with me in paridise. what day????
Hemera
of the last day of this present age, the day Christ will return from heaven, raise the dead, hold the final judgment, and perfect his kingdom
i could be wrong, but you know me :P ;D ::)
but seeing this Jesus actully used the lest amount of words he had to. he couldnt very well explain ressurection to the guy.
he just got done teaching psalms 22, so he simply said" on hemera youll be in paridise.
--- End quote ---
I don't think I understand this interpretation, but that is nothing new. I get lost quite often.
In Luke, to day was translated from the Greek word semeron, which means "this very day". Not from the word hemera.
Ray's answer seemed much clearer to me. The comma was in the wrong place. Jesus told the thief today, that he would be in paradise with Him some time in the future.
Tim
--- End quote ---
tim,
you are correct, but when i study the word i go to the root and lok at all of it.
i could be wrong, but when looking into greek and how its been transliterated, i like to go deeper.
at crosswalk even the word hell says its
gevenna of Hebrew origin (01516) and (02011)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Geenna 1:657,113
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
gheh'-en-nah Noun Feminine
Definition
Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.
FROM:
Hinnom None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
hin-nome' Proper Name Location
Definition
Hinnom http://= "lamentation"
a valley (deep and narrow ravine) with steep, rocky sides located southwest of Jerusalem, separating Mount Zion to the north from the hill of evil counsel' and the sloping rocky plateau of the 'plain of Rephaim' to the south
Jer 7:31
And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnomhttp://, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart
sorry for the confusion.
YellowStone:
--- Quote from: nightmare sasuke on July 10, 2006, 12:23:26 AM ---I know the dead are unconscious. I have written 10 chapters concerning the subject. However, I am thinking logically. My detractors will say, "Why did Jesus, who was in utter pain, nailed to a cross, add an extra word to his sentence, drain himself of extra breath, if the word did not have any significance or add to the emphasis of his message? Why bother saying 'today' if he did not mean that day. It is obvious he was saying it that very day."
By quoting other (only 2) translations, all the detractor must say is that I am using other translations to support my beliefs.
--- End quote ---
Oh boy don't the detractors like this one! :)
Prarrydog pretty much nailed it when he said:
--- Quote from: Prarrydog ---The answer to your puzzle lies in the scriptures. What do the scriptures support. Are people dead right now or are they in paradise?
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.
--- End quote ---
But as you say, this might not stop them. So then ask where did jesus go when he died. Did he go to paradise?
Not according to the scripture:
1 Pet. 3:18-20,
* "For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water."
Jesus died in the flesh, but was made alive in the spirit (he was the firstborn of the dead) And where did he go? (You might ask) Was it paradise or "prison?" Prision! Really, doesn't sound much like paradise to me! :)
What can they say, does it matter? You have given them the truth and yet they refuse to hear. This is God's work my friend, for even you can lead a horse to water bu not make him drink. Don't fret it. :)
With Love,
Darren
nightmare sasuke:
--- Quote from: YellowStone on July 12, 2006, 05:16:55 PM ---
--- Quote from: nightmare sasuke on July 10, 2006, 12:23:26 AM ---I know the dead are unconscious. I have written 10 chapters concerning the subject. However, I am thinking logically. My detractors will say, "Why did Jesus, who was in utter pain, nailed to a cross, add an extra word to his sentence, drain himself of extra breath, if the word did not have any significance or add to the emphasis of his message? Why bother saying 'today' if he did not mean that day. It is obvious he was saying it that very day."
By quoting other (only 2) translations, all the detractor must say is that I am using other translations to support my beliefs.
--- End quote ---
Oh boy don't the detractors like this one! :)
Prarrydog pretty much nailed it when he said:
--- Quote from: Prarrydog ---The answer to your puzzle lies in the scriptures. What do the scriptures support. Are people dead right now or are they in paradise?
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.
--- End quote ---
But as you say, this might not stop them. So then ask where did jesus go when he died. Did he go to paradise?
Not according to the scripture:
1 Pet. 3:18-20,
* "For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water."
Jesus died in the flesh, but was made alive in the spirit (he was the firstborn of the dead) And where did he go? (You might ask) Was it paradise or "prison?" Prision! Really, doesn't sound much like paradise to me! :)
What can they say, does it matter? You have given them the truth and yet they refuse to hear. This is God's work my friend, for even you can lead a horse to water bu not make him drink. Don't fret it. :)
With Love,
Darren
--- End quote ---
Prison refers to Christ preaching through Noah...
Sorin:
Nightmare Sasuke said: "I know the dead are unconscious. I have written 10 chapters concerning the subject. However, I am thinking logically. My detractors will say, "Why did Jesus, who was in utter pain, nailed to a cross, add an extra word to his sentence, drain himself of extra breath, if the word did not have any significance or add to the emphasis of his message? Why bother saying 'today' if he did not mean that day. It is obvious he was saying it that very day."
By quoting other (only 2) translations, all the detractor must say is that I am using other translations to support my beliefs."
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Nightmare,
Ask your detractors, what's the point of the RESURRECTION ( which by definition means to raise the dead) then? If the thief went to Paradise that very day. And also since he was obviously a thief, who's to say he won't try to be a thief in "Paradise" I mean afterall all he ever did to go to Paradise was utter the right words before drawing his last breath. How does that make him any better than the other thief, who was blaspheming Jesus? Weren't they both theives? How does sending a thief directly to paradise at the last second teach him anything? How did he learn his lesson that way? I mean how stupid could Orthodoxy be? To reward a thief with Paradise for simply uttering a few words. Why you might even say THE THIEF SNUCK HIS WAY INTO PARADISE.
That's the way I see it,
Sorin
nightmare sasuke:
--- Quote from: Sorin on July 12, 2006, 11:49:46 PM ---Nightmare Sasuke said: "I know the dead are unconscious. I have written 10 chapters concerning the subject. However, I am thinking logically. My detractors will say, "Why did Jesus, who was in utter pain, nailed to a cross, add an extra word to his sentence, drain himself of extra breath, if the word did not have any significance or add to the emphasis of his message? Why bother saying 'today' if he did not mean that day. It is obvious he was saying it that very day."
By quoting other (only 2) translations, all the detractor must say is that I am using other translations to support my beliefs."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nightmare,
Ask your detractors, what's the point of the RESURRECTION ( which by definition means to raise the dead) then? If the thief went to Paradise that very day. And also since he was obviously a thief, who's to say he won't try to be a thief in "Paradise" I mean afterall all he ever did to go to Paradise was utter the right words before drawing his last breath. How does that make him any better than the other thief, who was blaspheming Jesus? Weren't they both theives? How does sending a thief directly to paradise at the last second teach him anything? How did he learn his lesson that way? I mean how stupid could Orthodoxy be? To reward a thief with Paradise for simply uttering a few words. Why you might even say THE THIEF SNUCK HIS WAY INTO PARADISE.
That's the way I see it,
Sorin
--- End quote ---
The thief died to his flesh on the cross, and called upon the name of the Lord to be saved, and the Lord answered his call. Was Paradise immediate? Probably not.
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