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Author Topic: Creation  (Read 4901 times)

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dave

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Creation
« on: April 21, 2011, 03:09:12 AM »

I hope this is not out of line, I am wanting to learn.

I come in Peace....

Would I be wrong to presume that when a person begins to study, and starts that study in beginning and that beginning was incorrect, then the whole work study, no matter how good the completed work would seem, would be wrong? And would not the opposite be just as true were that study to start out correctly, that perhaps the whole study would have more of a chance of being correct?

Example am I incorrect in my understanding and reason, that the first two verses of Genesis 1 speak of the first or one creation?
Gen 1:1  In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:2  Now, the earth, had become waste and wild, and darkness, was on the face of the roaring deep,—but, the Spirit of God, was brooding on the face of the waters,
And also with that reasoning I would be correct that verses 1-3 of chapter one is the first day of the second creation
I now have 2 creations, would that be a correct finding?

Now here I read what some have called the 8th day but could it not possibly be yet another creation?
Gen 2:4  These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens;
For we go on to read that the Lord God made/formed/created man, rivers, vegetation to grow, cattle, and all creeping things, and then woman, does this not give the idea at least of a 3rd creation?
I am just considering these thoughts. We know what happens in chapter 3 and 4 of Genesis, but then we come to chapter 5...
Gen 5:1  This is an account of the births of Adam: In the day of God's preparing man, in the likeness of God He hath made him;
Gen 5:2  a male and a female He hath prepared them, and He blesseth them, and calleth their name Man, in the day of their being prepared.
Are we perhaps speaking of yet another creation? Creation number 4?

I also notice here in  Gen. 1:26  " And God saith, `Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness,""
but when I go to Genesis 1:27  "And God prepareth the man in His image;"
Then in Genesis 5:1 "....In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
 
So what I read is in Gen.1:26-27 man was not created in the "image and likeness" but in the IMAGE, in creation number 2 and in creation number 4  Gen.5:1 man is made in the LIKENESS?

And we also know that in creation number 2 and 4 that it is "male and female that He created them."

Now Gen 9:1  And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Would this not be considered yet another creation?  Number 5?
Gen 7:23  And every living thing was destroyed that was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; and they were destroyed from the earth:
Now I realize that this flood was only in a certain area, yet it is a starting again is it not?

I await correspond with corrections, reproof, and chastisment of course, I just hope we can learn.

Peace and Love Through Jesus.
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mharrell08

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Re: Creation
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2011, 09:16:22 AM »

This looks to be outside the scope of the forum....haha, just kidding  :D


Excerpt from 2008 Nashville Conference (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.msg68317.html#msg68317):

The Six Days Of Creation

I want to show you something very interesting, these are the things that require meditation and study these things don’t just pop out at you on the first or the thirty or fortieth reading.

This person that I have been quoting from, all this nonsense.  He says, ‘well there are those that say Genesis 1:1-2 happened ages before verse 3, they call it the gap theory.’  No actually the ‘gap theory’ is not that.  But the fact of the matter is that you get a big period of time between verses 1-2 and verse 3. 

You know Moses informs us that the heavens were created at the same time as the earth and then he tells us in Exodus 20;

Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth…

They will tell you, ‘see it’s all the same thing.  So the heavens and earth were made in the six days.  In a portion of one of  the six days the earth was created.  In a portion of those six days, because he tells us in Exodus “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth.”  In Gen. we have “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” and if He made them in six days then it has got to be in one of those six days. ’  Well I already showed you that the words are not “create” (Gen. 1:1) and “create” (Ex. 20:11), it’s “created” and “made.”

Gen 1:1  In the beginning God created (H1254 - bara) the heaven and the earth.

Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made (H6213 - asah) heaven and earth


Everything was created from which He was then going to make, the raw materials if you will. 

Gen 1:31  Then God saw everything that He had made (asah), and, behold, it was very good.

Then when we read in verse 31 of all that God created for making, when He bara for asah, you see.  He created for making, so He did not create the heavens and earth in six days.  In six days He made the heavens and the earth as they now are, from what He had already created, millions or billions of years earlier in verse one. 

Now let me give you another very unique  proof to what was created and what wasn’t created in the six periods called yoms.

Gen 1:24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living (chay) creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Did you notice how He starts that off  “And God said”?  Every time He is going to make something, from what He had already created, it says “And God said”… here’s what I’m going to do.  He always starts it that way… here‘s what I‘m going to do.  “And God said,” here’s what I’m going to do. 

When did that period, that He’s taking about doing something, when did it start?  Well back up one verse to 23,  it says.

Gen 1:23  And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.  v. 24  And God said…

Then we go into the creation of the sixth day.  So what begins the sixth day?  It’s between “And the evening and the morning were the fifth day,” that’s where it starts and then God said let it happen.  That is the sixth day. 

Here is the end of the six yoms or the six creation times.  The very last verse of the first chapter of the Bible, and how does it end?  It ends with…

Gen 1:31  …And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

What began the sixth day?  Verse 24 “And God said…”  So between what God said and the evening and the morning, that was the sixth day.  There is nothing that happened in the sixth day before verse 24 and nothing that happened after verse 31, it’s got to be between there.  The sixth day ended with the evening and the morning, that ends it, that is the sixth day.  When did it begin?  When “God said” in verse 24.  Now we’re getting it.

Gen 1:23  And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

That’s the end of the fifth day or the fifth yom or the fifth period of time.  When did that fifth day of making begin?  Verse 20, “And God said...”  Simple?  There is a pattern here, we are talking Scripture. 

Gen 1:19  And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

This was the end of the forth day.  When did it begin?  Verse 14, “And God said…”

Gen 1:13  And the evening and the morning were the third day.

When did it begin?  Verse 9, “And God said…” 

Gen 1:8  …And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Which began when?  Verse 6, “And God said…”

Gen 1:5  …And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The ending of the first time.  When did it begin?  Verse 3, “And God said…”  Where is verse 1 and 2?   Before the six days.  [Someone says, ‘It was there all the time.’]  Bingo, it was there all the time. 

The six days only consist of what “God said” should take place during those periods of time.  But in the beginning God had already created the heavens and the earth.  The creation was finished from the foundation of the world.   In verse 2 the earth was uninhabitable for humanity, tohu and bohu.

Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form (tohu), and void (bohu);

It had to be fashioned and He begins that fashioning with “And God said.”  Verses 1 and 2 have nothing to do with the 6 creating times.  Totally outside if that period.  Can you see it?  Okay.



I would make a chart to compare and contrast when 'bara' and 'asah' are used throughout the examples you listed, that may help in gaining more insight. Just a suggestion.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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dave

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Re: Creation
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2011, 04:37:44 PM »

Thanks. Yes I have listen to Ray and read that. I believe there is much yet to learn from Genesis.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 05:00:15 PM by micah7:9 »
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JohnMichael

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Re: Creation
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 12:08:27 AM »

Ray used this example in one of his papers, and I hope it conveys the difference for you as well as it did for me:

Verse 1 and 2 of Genesis are akin to putting (creating) all the materials needed to build a house on an open plot of land.

Verse 3 forward - Commanding the house to build itself using the materials He provided.
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dave

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Re: Creation
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 02:04:37 AM »

I like that. :)
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Stacey

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Re: Creation
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2011, 11:17:40 AM »

Quote
Verse 3 forward - Commanding the house to build itself using the materials He provided.

After watching this video,

http://bible-truths.com/video/WhereGodsKnowledgeL.wmv

I have a new appreciation of how God brought about the creation. Now I don't just believe "God said" and it magically appeared anymore. Can't say I know how He did it, just that my thinking on it has changed.
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Stacey

gmik

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Re: Creation
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2011, 02:02:03 PM »

Stacy, thanks for that link...I was there but had forgotten.....Wow!!!  God travailed to birth wisdom!!!!  that takes some time to sink in!!!!
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Drew

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Re: Creation
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2011, 05:09:05 PM »

Yes, Stacey and gmik,

And just to cogitate on how our Father wants us to know the intimate things about how "it" all came about blows my feeble mind!! Gen. the first few chapters has always baffled me but I too, after watching the video you mentioned, have had a change in my thinking; certainly don't have anything figured out though. It was a help to me also in seeing? that the raw materials were already created and then He spoke; whatever that exactly means!?

Drew
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