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why will Satan be punished?
Joel:
Hi Dawidos;
I can imagine some very bad people that have gone through our court system, been found guilty, and received the death penalty.
God provided for punishments according to his law, and was very specific as to the rules to be followed. Have they been carried out perfectally? Jesus showed how corrupted that people had become when he came, remember the woman, AND MAN caught in the act of adultery? And Jesus of course died unjustly by their law.
Every one including Satan will get what is coming to them, and I am thankfull that God is perfect, especially in his judgements. :)
arion:
--- Quote from: G. Driggs on April 18, 2011, 01:56:57 PM ---Your question reminded me of an email response from Ray on this very subject. It is very short and to the point.
There are MANY things that God does that we as mortals are NOT TO IMITATE! God "makes war in righteousness"--we cannot. God KILLS and brings back to life again--we cannot.
G.Driggs
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And I would add that HE is GOD and we are not!! When we know all the God knows only then can we make such judgements.
GaryK:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on April 18, 2011, 05:09:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on April 18, 2011, 01:43:29 PM ---The Universe works from the TOP down. It's not a democracy...it's not egalitarian. God is God, and nobody else is. This is HIS work.
I am slow to make the assumption that anything in His world--from His High Viewpoint--is "imperfect". Everything (including Satan) is acting in exactly the way He knew it would WHEN HE MADE IT.
I also am slow to consider the chastening/judgement/redemption that God does on ALL His creatures (including Satan) as "punishment". God is NOT up in Heaven waiting for me (or Satan) to foul up so He can punish us later. God is either chastening/judging/redeeming us now, or He is waiting for another time to raise us up to chasten/judge/redeem us then, at HIS pleasure and to HIS glory. Thankfully, it is also for OUR (mine and Satan's) great benefit, whether we see it now or not.
To me, we either see God working IN EVERTHING, or we are disobedient/lawless to that. Satan is disobedient/lawless to that, and is spreading that lie to his ministers who are decieving the flock--except for the ones God is drawing out, who will have thier eyes opened, knowing Good and Evil, becoming like "Us", "being conformed into the Image of His Son" when they will serve the Lord by reigning with Him, ministering RIGHTEOUS and loving chastening/judgement/redemption to those whom God has reserved to THOSE judgements--including Satan who, having served his purpose in GOD'S purpose, will himself be chastened/judged/redeemed to the Glory of the Father.
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Well said Dave.
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Agreed John, well said Dave.
As you say Dave, "becoming". This "seeing God working in EVERYTHING" is a growth process, not an overnight realization, or it seems to me. One reads the words both from scripture and Ray's teaching and then the process begins. And what a process it is. No small part: realizing there is absolutely NO free-will. And that, for some (me), is a bumpy road where it seems spiritual warfare is intense for long periods of time, on many occasions, where the idol of total control is razed to powder. For others it may be simple. But it's all God, no matter what. We each have our race, we each have our course, all owned by God.
I like to think of it as a huge leap in freedom, worth the struggles.
gk
mmijares:
--- Quote from: Samson on April 19, 2011, 07:34:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dawidos on April 18, 2011, 03:58:33 AM ---
--- Quote ---Certainly all is of God, and it seems His intention was for us to sin, and go against His will as Ray has stated and proved with Scriptures. That does not make God evil because of the intent of His heart is for good. When we do evil it's not for good, but it makes us feel good and it satisfies our selfish and carnal minds. When God uses evil it is for our ultimate good.
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I'm always wondering if a man can do evil for ultimate good. In theory, let's imagine there is a very bad person, whose every day of life means that many people suffer and are killed. I decide myself to kill that man to save countless lifes. My motive is not revenge, because this extremely wicked human being has not done anything personally against me (for example, he hasn't do harm to my relatives). So my intention is noble, like God's is and will bring ultimate good. Moreover, killing this man will not gain me any benefits, quite the opposite, I may be even sentenced to death penalty. The final question is if I'm evil because of this act and I have done some kind of evil. In God's plan the ends justify the means, so could I incorporate this same method in my life?
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Dawidos,
Your above response indicates that You are a thinking Man. You propose in Your above scenario regarding this Man's intention, no revenge involved, no concern about receiving the death penalty and the motive towards bringing an eventual good as the result of an evil act. Your Post is very well thought out, but lacks one crucial consideration. THIS MAN PORTRAYED ABOVE DOESN'T KNOW THE END OF ANY MATTER OR CANNOT CONTROL THE OUTCOME OF ANY CHOICE HE MAKES. So, even if His motives are good in His attempt to help many people, THIS MAN has no way of being certain He will attain the results exactly the way He intends, Hence the Scripture: " Vengeance is Mine, says The Lord, I will repay."
This always happens when Man declares War against each other, they don't just Kill the "Bad" Guy as their motive might have desired, they end up killing allot of innocents and they use the same rationale: " The End justifies the means." People tend to justify every wicked or evil act committed, We hear about this in Our present Age, probably every day.
Kind Regards, Samson.
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True indeed. Reminds me of the movie "The Butterfly Effect".
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