Should we avoid the orthodox church completely?...i find myself scouring the internet for further teaching and i get really impatient and turn off when i see that whoever is teaching believes in hell, am i correct in assuming that eternal torment believers have absolutely nothing to offer me now?...do they really know nothing after all their lives in study?
blessings
David
x
Hi David,
I will attempt to answer your question to the best of My ability, including some comments & excerpt's of Ray's. Firstly, The Church Denominations of Christendom are deceived. To what degree( the percentage of their teachings), I don't know, only God fully knows. Individual Rank & File Church Members are probably close to fully deceived, followed by the Minister or Pastor of the particular individual Churches. Christendom's Bible "Scholars," Theologians & Translators are deceived on some Level, again, to what degree or how much, no one is fully certain.
The Politics in Church Denominations plays a large part in influencing what they believe & teach. Bible Scholars & Theologians need to maintain the Status Quo, Control the Religious Masses, Make Money & maintain acceptance from their Peer's(Fellow Orthodox Scholars & Theologians). If they don't stay within that accepted Orthodox Thought Control Peer Group, they risk losing their Prominence, Authority, Status & Money. It takes allot of Humility, Desire & Courage to leave that all behind. They have created Terms like "Context," Exegesis & Hermeneutics, big sounding words that the majority of their Church Members don't even understand. And Who do you think sets the standard as to what The "Context" Is, What is considered proper Hermeneutics & Exegesis, THEY DO.
It's truly a Miracle that God led any of Us to discovering the Truth behind any of the information learned at this Site. The Main Benefit, if any, the "Churches" provide is in teaching & demonstrating THE WRONG & FALSE VERSION OF SCRIPTURAL INTERPRETATION & A WRONG VIEW AS TO THE CHARACTER OF THE GOD WE WORSHIP. The Church System is used as a part of the process & experience of Evil that God uses to prepare those He desire's to eventually understand the correct understanding of Scripture.
Once You begin to learn these Truths, it's a waste of time to re-check the spiritual garbage we left behind. It's usefulness is over & already fulfilled it's purpose. When I think of the various Church systems of Christendom, the Scriptures listed below come to mind.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Most of the Religious Leaders of Christendom fall under & are influenced in their beliefs & teachings by the Scriptural passage found below.
1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
BELOW ARE POINTS FROM RAY TO HELP IN THE DISCUSSION, RAY SHOWS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIS(JESUS) CHURCH THE(CHRISTENDOM) CHURCH.
PAUL SAW THE HANDWRITING ON THE WALL
Only a few years into Paul’s ministry, he told the Corinthian Congregation of the corruption already in the Church:
"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ" (II Cor. 2:17).
Now I hope you all know that I love the King James, and it is true as stated in this verse that they "corrupted" the word of God, but this verse tells us much more than the King James translators present in this verse. Let’s read a few other translations of this same verse:
"For we are not, as THE MANY, driving a PETTY TRADE with the word of God…" (A New Translation, By J. B. Rotherham).
"For we are not as the MAJORITY, who are PEDDLING the word of God…" (Concordant Literal New Testament).
"For I seek not PROFIT [LIKE MOST] by setting the word of God TO SALE…" (The Epistles of Paul, By Conybeare).
"Unlike MANY PEOPLE, we are not in the habit of MAKING PROFIT out of God’s Message" (The Twentieth Century New Testament).
"For I am no PEDDLER of God’s message LIKE MOST MEN" (An American Translation, By Goodspeed).
"For I am not like MOST, TRAFFICKING in the word of God" ( The New Testament in Modern English, By Montgomery).
"For we are not like THE GREAT NUMBER who make use of the Word of God for PROFIT" (The New Testament in Basic English).
ADULTERATING HUCKSTERS OF GOD’S WORD
Does anyone have any doubts now, as to what this verse is saying? I hope not. But there is still more in this verse that does not meet the eye of understanding unless we check the Greek. The word from which "corrupt," "profit," "peddling," and "trafficking" was taken, is the Greek word kapeleou, and it means much more than simply selling for a profit: Strong’s Greek Dictionary of The New Testament: #2585. kpeleuo (a huckster); to retail, i.e. (by impl.) to adulterate. This word means to be a retailer, to peddle, to hucksterize; hence, intentionally to get base gain by dealing in anything, to do anything for sordid personal advantage." (P. 128). WOW! But wait … here’s one more definition:
From Greek-English Keyword Concordance, "peddle [kapeleu’o], sell at retail, with the insinuation of improper profit, either by overcharging or adulterating"(P. 220).
Can you even begin to understand and believe what you are reading? Paul said that it was the MAJORITY that were retailing, selling, peddling, huckstering, an adulterated version of God’s word by overcharging improper profits far beyond rational living expenses for their own base gain and sordid personal advantage! Not only was this practice CORRUPT, but, it was being done by "THE MANY," "THE MAJORITY!" Tell me that you can’t see this being done in the church today?
THE CHURCH AFTER PAUL’S DEPARTURE
While in Miletus, before going to Caesarea and then up to Jerusalem, Paul gave us a profound prophetic statement regarding the direction the church would take immediately after his departure:
"For I have not shunned to declare unto you ALL THE COUNSEL OF GOD. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to ALL THE FLOCK [the entire Church of God, and remember that ALL of Paul’s epistles were read and distributed by Peter as well to the Jewish saints, II Pet. 3:16-17], over the which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers, to feed THE CHURCH OF GOD, which He has purchased with His own blood. FOR I KNOW THIS, that after my departing shall GRIEVOUS WOLVES enter in among you, NOT SPARING THE FLOCK. Also of your OWN SELVES shall men arise, speaking PERVERSE THINGS, to DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES AFTER THEM. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day WITH TEARS [Paul knew and could see how horribly deceived the Church of God was to become]. And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified" (Acts 20:27-32).
WOW … Not a pretty picture, is it? It gets worse.
Paul knew that just as he had to come out of religious Babylon, those under his evangelism would also have to one day come out of the New Testament Church of God’s Babylonian practices. In our next installment we will see just what these practices and doctrines of the Seven Churches are, that we must "Come out of…"
Peter witnessed and prophesied of the same conditions in the Church. Listen to Peter’s powerful words of admonition in his last epistle for us:
"But there were false prophets [teachers] also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers AMONG YOU, who privately shall bring in DAMNABLE HERESIES, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And MANY shall follow their pernicious [lascivious, licentious, wanton] ways; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be EVIL spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words MAKE MERCHANDISE OF YOU…" (II Pet. 2:1-3).
WHO ARE THE ‘FALSE CHRISTS?’
Who are they who almost deceive the VERY ELECT and DECEIVE MANY? We read that they are "false Christs" and "false prophets." But WHO are these false Christs and false prophets? How will we know them? What IDENTIFIES them as false prophets, liars, and deceivers? I WILL MAKE THIS SO SCRIPTURALLY PLAIN THAT A TEN YEAR OLD CAN UNDERSTAND IT!
At this time I will give you just two Scriptures where Jesus gives us the IDENTIFYING SIGNS of the these false teachers, and deceivers:
"MANY will say to me [Jesus] in that day, Lord, Lord [Master, Master], have we not:
A: PROPHESIED [taught, preached] in Thy Name [Jesus]?
B: In Thy Name [Jesus] have CAST OUT DEVILS [demons]?
C: And in Thy Name [Jesus] done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS [miracles]?
And then will I profess [plainly, openly, tell them to their face] I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME YOU THAT WORK INIQUITY [lawlessness]" (Matt. 7:22-23).
"For MANY shall come in my name, saying [that], I [Jesus] am Christ, and shall deceive MANY" (Matt. 24:5).
Who are the "MANY" today who, (1) Teach and preach in the name of Jesus Christ? (2) Cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ? (3) Do MANY (not a few, but many) WONDERFUL WORKS (not evils works, but good and wonderful works), in the name of Jesus Christ? Who? The Russians? The Chinese? The Muslims? The Hindus? The Confucianists? The Buddhists? The Shintoists? The Zoroastrians? The Jews? The QUARTER BILLION Ethnic Religionists? The HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION Athiests? Do ANY of these worldwide religions "teach, preach, cast out demons, and do many wonderful works IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST?" No, they don’t!
Well then, WHO ARE THESE "MANY" who do these things?
Do "MANY" of the TWO BILLION CHRISTIANS in the world today, "teach, preach, cast out demons, and do many wonderful works IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST?" Then I would say that we have identified the "many" that Jesus warned us about. It is not enough to preach, teach, heal, and cast out demons in the name of Jesus Christ. One has to also OBEY the commandments and teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus said that it is the "many" who do good words, but are guilty of "iniquity" which means "lawlessness."
Next, who are the "MANY" today who say that, "Jesus IS THE CHRIST, THE MESSIAH?" No, don’t be deceived; it is not those few who occasionally claim that they themselves are "Jesus the Christ." They don’t deceive the "many." Only some fool would ever be deceived into believing that some carnal idiot really IS the Christ. Besides, there are NOT "many" who make such a claim in the first place.
But there certainly are "MANY" who say and teach that JESUS is the REAL CHRIST! And so it is not only those who "teach and preach and cast out demons and do many wonderful works in the name of Jesus" who are DECEIVING THE MANY, but also there is a large group (many) who teach that "Jesus really IS THE CHRIST" and yet Jesus said it would be these that are also DECEIVING THE MANY!
Millions of Christians have heard these Scriptures quoted all their lives. But, God forbid that they would pause a minute or two to consider WHO REALLY ARE THESE PEOPLE THAT JESUS IS TALKING ABOUT THAT REALLY DO THESE MANY WONDERFUL THINGS AND YET … DECEIVE THE MANY!!
None of the above information is meant to imply that you can't or shouldn't study outside the Forum influence, but to impress upon you that "Orthodox" Christianity & their Doctrines & Traditions won't help you understand the Truth, instead will confuse(Babble-Lon) & deceive You. Two more Scriptures to assist you in Your study found below.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Kind Regards & Hope this Helps, Samson.