> General Discussions
spiritual bodies
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 12:30:16 PM ---My main thought is why didnt Paul teach about "spiritual BODIES, spiritual DEATH, spiritually ALIVE," he certainly could have put those words together for people to understand.
--- End quote ---
Paul did teach these things. Look within the following excerpt for passages from Paul's epistles:
Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 16-E (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm):
The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross DAILY, and follow me" (Luke 9:23).
"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die DAILY ['daily am I dying'--Concordant Version]" (I Cor. 15:31).
"As it is written, For thy sake we are killed ['we are put to death'--Concordant Version] all the DAY LONG; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter" (Rom. 8:36).
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life ['die'] for my sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25).
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live [Paul was spiritually dead, 'crucified,' yet he still lived 'now... in the flesh' and was growing spiritually in Christ] in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).
"As unknown, and yet well known; as dying [a spiritual SECOND death], and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed" (II Cor. 6:9).
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness" (I Pet. 2:24).
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal. 5:24).
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I [am crucified] unto the world ['love not the world,' I John 2:15-16]" (Gal. 6:14).
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death" (Phil. 3:10).
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13).
"Always bearing about in the body [our body] the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (II Cor. 4:10-11).
"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments [worldliness] of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances" (Col. 2:20).
"And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which DIE in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them" (Rev. 14:13).
"Mortify [deaden, put to death] therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry" (Col. 3:5).
But how can I say that all these Scriptures have reference to our Second Death, seeing that not one of them mentions a "second death?" The answer is threefold:
The Second Death IS Judgment, and Judgment after the resurrection is called the Second death.
The Lake of Fire IS the Second Death, and we too go through the Lake of Fire (also called, Gehenna fire, eonian fire, etc.), so we too go through the Second Death, and the above Scriptures refer to the Judgment of death on God's Elect.
We will see that this Second Death comes after a previous death, and therefore must be a "second" death. Notice how our death is linked with fire.
--- Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 12:30:16 PM --- Ive heard them all my llife. I am not trying to say I dont believe in spiritual things, I do, but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why didnt SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
--- End quote ---
Might just be in the way you are understanding the term 'body'. As Ray noted in his last bible study, we use lots of singular nouns & pronouns when referring to multiple units. If I were to say, "the human body will be changed after spiritual conversion", did I leave anyone out? Though I did not say 'human bodies', nonetheless, I am referring to every human being.
Not only do we have scriptures that talk about our bodies being converted from flesh into spirit, we have Christ as an example as well, after His resurrection. His spiritual body was able to alter his appearance, pass through solid objects, etc. Peter talked of Christ being our example to follow and John also noted we will 'be like Him'. Just a thought...
Hope this helps,
Marques
Kat:
Hi Micah7:9,
1Co 15:35 But someone will say, How are the dead raised up, and with what body do they come?
Paul is putting the question forth as to how the dead are raised up, this would be referring to all the dead. He just says "with what body?" So the singular word was just a reference point "what body" to ask the question.
1Co 15:38 And God gives it a body as it has pleased Him, and to each of the seeds its own body.
Paul goes on to say "gives it" singular, 'a body' singular, as the same reference point about that which he is speaking of. He is talking about what happens to an individual person, their body. He does use the word "bodies" in verse 40 to indicate the plural.
1Co 15:40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the glory of the heavenly is truly different, and that of the earthly different;
It verse 44 he goes back to speaking of "it is sown," so using "it" referring to the singular "body."
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
But when you go further down as Paul is speaking, he does use the word "we," so we know that he is talking about all the believers.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I speak a mystery to you; we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed;
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.
Anyway I hope that is helpful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
dave:
Not only do we have scriptures that talk about our bodies being converted from flesh into spirit, we have Christ as an example as well, after His resurrection. His spiritual body was able to alter his appearance, pass through solid objects, etc. Peter talked of Christ being our example to follow and John also noted we will 'be like Him'. Just a thought...
Hope this helps,
Marques
Joh 20:26 And after eight days, again were his disciples within, and Thomas with them; Jesus cometh, the doors having been shut, and he stood in the midst, and said, `Peace to you!'
Are we not assuming He altered His appearance to "pass thru?"
dave:
--- Quote from: mharrell08 on April 29, 2011, 01:02:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 12:30:16 PM ---My main thought is why didnt Paul teach about "spiritual BODIES, spiritual DEATH, spiritually ALIVE," he certainly could have put those words together for people to understand.
--- End quote ---
Paul did teach these things. Look within the following excerpt for passages from Paul's epistles:
Excerpt from Lake of Fire Part 16-E (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm):
The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross DAILY, and follow me" (Luke 9:23).
"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die DAILY ['daily am I dying'--Concordant Version]" (I Cor. 15:31).
"As it is written, For thy sake we are killed ['we are put to death'--Concordant Version] all the DAY LONG; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter" (Rom. 8:36).
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life ['die'] for my sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25).
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live [Paul was spiritually dead, 'crucified,' yet he still lived 'now... in the flesh' and was growing spiritually in Christ] in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).
"As unknown, and yet well known; as dying [a spiritual SECOND death], and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed" (II Cor. 6:9).
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness" (I Pet. 2:24).
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal. 5:24).
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I [am crucified] unto the world ['love not the world,' I John 2:15-16]" (Gal. 6:14).
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death" (Phil. 3:10).
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13).
"Always bearing about in the body [our body] the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (II Cor. 4:10-11).
"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments [worldliness] of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances" (Col. 2:20).
"And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which DIE in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them" (Rev. 14:13).
"Mortify [deaden, put to death] therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry" (Col. 3:5).
But how can I say that all these Scriptures have reference to our Second Death, seeing that not one of them mentions a "second death?" The answer is threefold:
The Second Death IS Judgment, and Judgment after the resurrection is called the Second death.
The Lake of Fire IS the Second Death, and we too go through the Lake of Fire (also called, Gehenna fire, eonian fire, etc.), so we too go through the Second Death, and the above Scriptures refer to the Judgment of death on God's Elect.
We will see that this Second Death comes after a previous death, and therefore must be a "second" death. Notice how our death is linked with fire.
--- Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 12:30:16 PM --- Ive heard them all my llife. I am not trying to say I dont believe in spiritual things, I do, but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why didnt SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
--- End quote ---
Might just be in the way you are understanding the term 'body'. As Ray noted in his last bible study, we use lots of singular nouns & pronouns when referring to multiple units. If I were to say, "the human body will be changed after spiritual conversion", did I leave anyone out? Though I did not say 'human bodies', nonetheless, I am referring to every human being.
Not only do we have scriptures that talk about our bodies being converted from flesh into spirit, we have Christ as an example as well, after His resurrection. His spiritual body was able to alter his appearance, pass through solid objects, etc. Peter talked of Christ being our example to follow and John also noted we will 'be like Him'. Just a thought...
Hope this helps,
Marques
--- End quote ---
BODY G4983 sōma the body (as a sound whole) from G4982 sōzō From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, "safe"); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
This tells me that a body is sound..[.sound].. from dictionary (a : free from injury or disease b : free from flaw, defect, or decay) examples.....a building of sound construction ........The bridge is structurally sound.
dave:
I must add also that is much talk in christian circles of "glorified bodies" yet the Bible is silent on this as well.
I am not attempting to say that I do not believe in some of terms and issuses I bring up, its just that when Im studying and I use the concordance and esword and find that some phrases that are written and taught about I am unable to find them. So I just ponder and wonder if these phrases that seem so utterly simple to us now, WHY were that not seen to be useful to the Apostles?
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