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[Kat]

1John 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

This is what the risen Christ is like.

Rev 1:12-18  Then I turned to see the Voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands One like a Son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around His chest. The hairs of His head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, His feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and His voice was like the roar of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, from His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and His face was like the sun shining in full strength. When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead. But he laid His right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore...

So the Elect will be raised or changed (if they are still living) to become "like Him" and we can see from this that that will be something quite glorious.

But the rest of the dead, those in the second resurrection will be raised back to physical life as Ray explained in his email to the forum 'PHYSICAL or SPIRITUAL RESURRECTION BODIES FOR THE WICKED & NON-BELIEVERS?'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html ------

Notice these verses describing the resurrection of God’s elect:

1Co 15:42-45  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in INCORRUPTION:  It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in GLORY: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in POWER:  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

INCORRUPTION:  Strong’s #861, aphtharsia, “from #862 [un-decaying]; incorruptibility; generally unending existence; (figuratively) genuineness: immortality, incorruption, sincerity.”

Note:  INCORRUPTIBILITY, UNENDING EXISTENCE, GENUINENESS, IMMORTALITY, INCORRUPTION, SINCERITY

GLORY:  Strong’s #1391, doxa, G1391 From the base of G1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literally or figuratively, objectively or subjectively): - dignity, glory (-ious), honor, praise, worship.

Note:  GLORY (AS VERY APPARENT GLORY), DIGNITY, GLORY, GLORIOUS, HONOR, PRAISE, WORSHIP

POWER:  Strong’s #1411, dunamis, From G1410;  “force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.”

Note:  FORCE, MIRACULOUS POWER, ABILITY, ABUNDANCE, MIGHT, MIGHTY, WORKIER OF MIRACLES, POWER, STRENGTH,  (‘violence’ only when referencing an carnal person), MIGHTY (wonderful) WORK

SPIRITUAL:  Strong’s #4152, pneumatikos From G4151;  “non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual.

Note:  NON-CARNAL ETHEREAL (as opposed to gross or daemoniacally) SPIRIT, DIVINELY, SUPER NATURAL, REGENERATE, RELIGIOUS, SPIRITUAL

Now let’s foolishly assume that the wicked are going to be resurrected with “spiritual” bodies. The only place in Scripture that anyone is said to be resurrected with a “spiritual body,” is in these many references in I Cor. 15. So if a resurrected “spiritual body” applies to the unjust and the wicked and the unbelievers, then these attributes which constitute a “spiritual body” resurrection MUST APPLY TO THEM ALSO.  Now then, show me one Scripture anywhere that justifies people like Mao Tse Tung, Adolph Hitler, or Saddam Hussein being resurrected with:

INCORRUPTIBILITY, UNENDING EXISTENCE, GENUINENESS, IMMORTALITY, INCORRUPTION, SINCERITY, GLORY (AS VERY APPARENT GLORY), DIGNITY, GLORY, GLORIOUS, HONOR, PRAISE, WORSHIP, FORCE, MIRACULOUS POWER, ABILITY, ABUNDANCE, MIGHT, MIGHTY, WORKER OF MIRACLES, POWER, STRENGTH,  (‘violence’ only when referencing an carnal person), MIGHTY (wonderful) WORK, NON-CARNAL, ETHEREAL, SPIRIT, DIVINELY, SUPER NATURAL, REGENERATE, RELIGIOUS, SPIRITUAL
 
Is there anywhere a Scripture that presents the resurrection of the wicked in such a glorious, and holy, divine light?  I think not. Rather we are presented with this as the characterization of the resurrected wicked to eonian judgment:

Dan 12:2  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting [eonian] life, and some to shame [rebuke, reproach, disgrace] and everlasting [eonian] contempt [repulsion, aversion, abhorrence].

Is it possible to have a greater contradiction of character traits than this?  No, those who are spared death at the conclusion of this eon and will live on into the reign of Jesus Christ with their physical bodies, will not be outdone by the wicked who are raised from their graves. There will not be two communities of non-believers being judged—one in physical bodies, and those among the worst of humanity that have ever lived, being in beautiful, glorious, powerful, incorruptible, SPIRITUAL bodies.  It’s unscriptural nonsense as far as I can see.  Hope this helps your understanding a little better.

God be with you,

Ray

[mharrell08]

Still Paul only used celestial bodies, one time.

No, Paul spoke of celestial being and/or places multiple times in the scriptures. Though sometimes the original word was translated to heaven or heavenly, the word itself is from the same word translated to celestial. The following passage speaks of spiritual or heavenly beings worshiping Jesus:

Phil 2:9-11  Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven [celestial], and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

And that only means "above/sky"  and glorify is and honor isnt it?

No, that's not the only definition. The best definition I could give for celestial is 'of heavenly origin or nature'. Usage is the key to understanding what a word means, not always a translator's preference.

John 3:12  If I [Jesus] have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly [celestial] things?

Even the Father is said to be celestial:

Matt 18:35  So My heavenly [celestial] Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses

Hey- here's something interesting..  later in that same chapter

1Co 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

resurrection of the dead isn't what you think..People think it's going to be like  zombies  crawling out of the grave and  then restored back as humans..  It said, flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. So therefore, we will not be humans when we resseurct from the dead. just something different.[/quoote]

Denise, that's not true at all. Being resurrected has nothing to do with inheriting the Kingdom. The scriptures state the exact opposite of your comments: People WILL come out of their graves because that's where their bodies are. More info can be found here: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html

Micah & Denise...I don't know if you'll receive this well but...you two need to spend more time reading and studying from the site. For every unscriptural theory that Kat & others answer, you guys come back with even more. I think that shows you guys may not fully understand everything Ray has presented on the site and/or bible studies & conferences. I'm not saying you two should stop posting, but possibly take some time to really look through the site & forum to help your understanding and questions beforehand. Here are some great tips from Kat on searching the site: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5460.0.html


Hope this helps,

Marques

[dave]

The only thing that I see that could bother me is " For every unscriptural theory" I see no theory that I stated. I asked why is there a teaching of "spiritual bodies" when the Bible does not put those to words together. Im not trying to be a pinhead but would not the phrase "spiritual bodies" be more theory than my question?

And that only means "above/sky"  and glorify is and honor isnt it? (me)

No, that's not the only definition. The best definition I could give for celestial is 'of heavenly origin or nature'. Usage is the key to understanding what a word means, not always a translator's preference. (you)
Celestial   G2032   epouranios From G1909 and G3772; above the sky: - celestial, (in) heaven (-ly), high.

Heavenly  G3770 ouranios From G3772; celestial, that is, belonging to or coming from the sky: - heavenly.
G3772 ouranos
Perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension heaven (as the abode of God); by implication happiness, power, eternity; specifically the Gospel (Christianity): - air, heaven ([-ly]), sky.

I can  see elevation as a good definition and yes I do believe that there is a nature to that.

[Akira329]

Hey Micah,

The only difference between "Spiritual Body" and "Spiritual Bodies" is one is singular and the other is plural.
1Co 15:40  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial (heavenly, spiritual bodies) is one, and the glory of the terrestrial (earthly, physical bodies) is another.

Micah if I'm understanding your posts up to now are you asking "How we all can be one, like Jesus and his Father are one?"
Example question: "How will many be one with the Father?"

Hope this helps give you direction
Antaiwan

[Revilonivek]

Denise, that's not true at all. Being resurrected has nothing to do with inheriting the Kingdom. The scriptures state the exact opposite of your comments: People WILL come out of their graves because that's where their bodies are. More info can be found here: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html

I  am simply saying that we will not crawl out of our graves literally.  grave symbolizes death.. We will come to be aware when God calls us from death.

If you read 1st Corinthians 15 carefully. You'll notice that Paul goes into detail about the true nature of the resurrection of the Dead. Of course, about the resurrection of the righteousness. The people were asking Paul how the dead are raised up and what body it will be in. Paul told them they were ignorant and explained in depth.

People:  “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

Paul:Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened [made alive], except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body”

(1st Corinthians 15.35-38).

Like Ray says... Pay attention to the words...

Paul said the new bodies come  from a bare grain whose its parent were the old body. Even we know that when we die, we return to dust.. not even everyone has their own graves. some were cremated, some drowned, some eaten by  beasts, etc.

Those who grow corn know that we can't use the stalks and leaves from last year’s corn crop, to grow it again, because rather than rejuvenating they’d simply rot away.  Instead, We'll sow a portion of the corn kernel, from a corn cob from last year, and each one would sprout and grow to become a whole new plant. The kernel or seed will spout a new body. Just as it pleases him, God will give to each soul a whole new body, entirely separate from the body that was. a spiritual body.   So we can think of the resurrection as a changing from the seed to a new plant.

[Marky Mark]

Strong's Greek Lexicon

GLORY G1392 doxazō
From G1391; to render (or esteem) glorious (in a wide application): - (make) glorify (-ious), full of (have) glory, honour, magnify.

When the Spirit of the Lord is given,we are told to keep that which is written.

Rev 1:3  Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Defining the Glory of our Father is plain and simple to those saints that have ears to hear.

Col 1:26  Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27  To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

It is through Christ living in us that judgement begins at the house of God.He is the Glory that fills that house.

2 Chronicles 5:13:.....then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;
2 Chronicles 5:14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

Rev 15:8  And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power;

1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17  If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:


As Marques stated;

Usage is the key to understanding what a word means, not always a translator's preference.

Because when we compare Spiritual with Spiritual, only then can we see.

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

When we are dragged to Christ our house is shaken to its core so that our dry land can now be filled with living waters,Christ,the Glory.

Hag 2:6  For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
Hag 2:7  And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.

The Spirit of Glory[Jesus in us] is our rest.

1 Peter 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.



Peace...Mark