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spiritual bodies
Kat:
Hi Micah7:9,
Gen 7:22 all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died.
All people (animals as well) when born are given "the breath of the spirit of life." This is the natural/carnal mind of a person in which they have consciousness and preception, so we can think, reason, learn, remember and where our feelings and emotions come from. It's what gives us personalities and makes us individuals that we are.
1Co 2:11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him?...
This is how all people are born and do not know spiritual (of the Spirit of God) things, this is the natural/carnal man of flesh.
1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
If God has chosen a person, at some point He will give them His Holy Spirit that joins with their natural spirit, so they can receive/understand things from God. This is when their eyes are opened, they are made alive to know the things of the Spirit of God. Paul teaches us all about this very thing
1Co 2:11-16 ...So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
When the Holy Spirit comes into a person, Christ lives in them and begins to prepare them for the kingdom. This preparation is a process where He works with them through the Holy Spirit to overcome their sins, so that sin no longer has dominion over them. This process is called dying to self, it is our baptism into Jesus Christ and it's not being dunked in water.
Rom 6:3-8 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were buried therefore with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with Him in a death like His, we shall be united with Him in a resurrection like His. We know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him.
Rom 8:5-11 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
v. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
I hope this was helpful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 12:38:37 AM ---With a great deal of humility I say I do not understand what you say. I believe in spirit, I believe in spirutual. I am mystified tho, of "spiritually dead" and we will have "spiritual bodies." I believe that there is ONE body and that there is ONE spirit, where I become suspicious is the "spiritual bodies" thing.
As long as those of us who are reasoning the things of God, one of the most important things is the understanding, reasoning, and accepting that however we see, however we attempt to understand,,,we must come to the foundation and beginning, that there is only ONE, and our seeking and digging must start with one and end with one.
--- End quote ---
I think I see what your saying, if I misunderstand please forgive me. Im still learning too, and I love discussing what I have learned here. :)
I agree there is ONE body, made up of many members, or individuals. Paul tells us in 1Co 12 how exactly we are not only ONE body, but also many members. One body with different personalities and experiences all working as ONE body. Like a well oiled machine with all pistons firing.
Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe this will carry on into the age where we are ruling with Christ. Still ONE body with a common goal, same heart and mind but still individuals with individual spiritual bodies. It only seems like this to me right now, so I'm just as open to correction. If anyone knows where Ray talks about this please share.
Here a short excerpt where Ray uses an analogy to explain.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
We don’t become mass hypnotized robots, but we become one in spirit, one in perfection and one in love. He goes on to say, “that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us….. that they may be one, even as We are one, I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one;” (John 17:21-22)
These are some of the reasons, you will be hearing me say more, everything is one. It all comes down to one thing. There is one God and God is above everything there is. There is one God.
So everything really is ONE. All the other little twos, threes and fours are really of no consequence, compared to the ONE, see. The One, the all.
So we read in Ephesians, Paul understood this, he didn’t copy it from some other place, he understood it.
Eph 4:1-3 “I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the calling with which you are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit…”
See “the unity of the Spirit” there is the key, we are one in and through SPIRIT.
We are individuals, I have my personality, somebody else has their personality and some don’t have a personality, you know. But we’re all individuals. But we can be all one in spirit, that is what binds us together as one, spirit. So “endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit.”
You could get a superficial feeling of this, when you have a group of men in the army, let’s say the navy seals or somebody. They are so precisely trained to do one job together, that 6 of them function as one, see. They are multiple individuals, but function as one. We call it, I think it’s Latin, Esprit de corps….. the spirit of the corps, the group. That’s what Jesus Christ and God His Father have, they have a lot of Esprit de corps. They are one Spirit, it’s the same spirit and it’s the same spirit of perfection wisdom and knowledge, love and power. Same Spirit! How could they both have that and not be God? But there is only one Spirit.
Wherever God gives His spirit in this room, it’s all the same spirit. Those of us who have that spirit, have a certain Esprit de corps with one another. Now we don’t do it as well, I realize that and some of us are virtually strangers. But if we can talk to each other for an hour or so and know that we have that bond. You would trust me and I would trust you anywhere. Why? Because you have the spirit of God.
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The other members who commented here made some excellent points as well and are worth considering.
G.Driggs
Kat:
Hi Grace,
This is from the part 16-E 'Hades and the Second Death' of the Lake of Fire series. It should help you understand about the second death.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm ------------
Now get ready for a real revelation. There are two mysteries in Heb. 9:27 when applied to God's Elect:
what and when is the "ONCE to die?"
what and when is the "after this JUDGMENT?"
We will take up the Elect's Judgment part of this verse first.
We learned that Gehenna fire, and unquenchable fire, and eonian fire, and the furnace of fire, and being salted with fire, and the lake of fire, are all the same fire, and this fire is JUDGMENT. Now then, since the lake of fire is judgment, and the lake of fire "is" also the second death, if follows that the second death also "is" judgment. THE SECOND DEATH IS JUDGMENT, AND JUDGMENT IS THE SECOND DEATH.
Had God wanted to make things easy, He could have inspirited Heb. 9:27 to read like this: "And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the SECOND death."
For that is what the second death is, JUDGMENT. Likewise then, Judgment is the SECOND death. After the ONCE to die comes the SECOND to die. Or: After the FIRST death comes the SECOND death. Simple enough when God gives us eyes to see. But there is still an enigma about this verse that we will cover a little later.
GOD'S ELECT MUST DIE THE SECOND DEATH THROUGH JUDGMENT
As a young man I used to think, horrors of horrors, God is going to throw people into a lake of fire which will be their SECOND death! It all seemed so frightful and final. Little did I know that we are all destined for some form of this same lake of fire/second death/judgment. Yes, God's Elect must also die the SECOND death.
It's all in Rom. 8:13:
"For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
Paul puts people into two options (based on God's foreknowledge):
OPTION ONE is for the wicked world: "For if you live after the flesh, you shall DIE..." Not only will they die, because "it is appointed to men once to die" (Heb. 9:27). But after they die, they will then come up in the resurrection to judgment, which is the "lake of fire/second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).
OPTION TWO is for God's Elect: "...but if you through the Spirit do mortify [kill, put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13). Therefore, in the resurrection, "...you shall not be hurt of the second death" (Rev. 2:11). "...and he that has part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power" (Rev. 20:6).
The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die: All believing Elect Saints of God must DIE TO THE FLESH OF THE CARNAL MIND. Death is the daily life of the Believer!
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross DAILY, and follow me" (Luke 9:23).
"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die DAILY ['daily am I dying'--Concordant Version]" (I Cor. 15:31).
"As it is written, For thy sake we are killed ['we are put to death'--Concordant Version] all the DAY LONG; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter" (Rom. 8:36).
"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life ['die'] for my sake shall find it" (Matt. 16:25).
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live [Paul was spiritually dead, 'crucified,' yet he still lived 'now... in the flesh' and was growing spiritually in Christ] in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2:20).
"As unknown, and yet well known; as dying [a spiritual SECOND death], and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed" (II Cor. 6:9).
"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness" (I Pet. 2:24).
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts" (Gal. 5:24).
"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I [am crucified] unto the world ['love not the world,' I John 2:15-16]" (Gal. 6:14).
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death" (Phil. 3:10).
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13).
"Always bearing about in the body [our body] the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (II Cor. 4:10-11).
"Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments [worldliness] of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances" (Col. 2:20).
"And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which DIE in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, says the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them" (Rev. 14:13).
"Mortify [deaden, put to death] therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry" (Col. 3:5).
But how can I say that all these Scriptures have reference to our Second Death, seeing that not one of them mentions a "second death?" The answer is threefold:
1. The Second Death IS Judgment, and Judgment after the resurrection is called the Second death.
2. The Lake of Fire IS the Second Death, and we too go through the Lake of Fire (also called, Gehenna fire, eonian fire, etc.), so we too go through the Second Death, and the above Scriptures refer to the Judgment of death on God's Elect.
3. We will see that this Second Death comes after a previous death, and therefore must be a "second" death. Notice how our death is linked with fire.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
dave:
My main thought is why didnt Paul teach about "spiritual BODIES, spiritual DEATH, spiritually ALIVE," he certainly could have put those words together for people to understand. Ive heard them all my llife. I am not trying to say I dont believe in spiritual things, I do, but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why didnt SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
JohnMichael:
--- Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 12:30:16 PM ---My main thought is why didnt Paul teach about "spiritual BODIES, spiritual DEATH, spiritually ALIVE," he certainly could have put those words together for people to understand. Ive heard them all my llife. I am not trying to say I dont believe in spiritual things, I do, but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why didnt SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
--- End quote ---
My personal belief on this is that God intended for things to be confusing at first glance. In this way, only by His Spirit could one be given understanding so that man could not boast of himself.
May His Spirit give you understanding in this. :)
John
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