bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: What exactly is heaven?  (Read 22325 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Grace

  • Guest
What exactly is heaven?
« on: May 15, 2011, 01:44:18 AM »

I posted something earlier today about dying and heaven and didn't want to take over someone else's thread so I decided to start another one.  I realized after reading several things on the thread that I must not be understanding or getting a complete picture of this so I removed my post so that no one would be deceived from my errors.  I would like for someone to help me understand that heaven is spiritual and that it's in our minds?  But Ray says God's heaven is not in our minds? is that correct?  So is the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom Heaven two different things? and do we physically die here on earth and wake up here on earth, only when we awake we are in a spiritual body on earth? or what?.....I think I am not understanding the concept of what happens after conversion and judgement.  Can you help me?  I would appreciate the ones who stick to Ray's teaching on this subject to help me see more clearly this picture and not have anything from outside of this brought in if that is ok.  Some of this is all new to me.  I have wondered about this from scriptures I had seen on studying on my own but never got a clear picture of it.  Of course when I brought it up to a friend of mine the first thing he did was pooh poohed my thoughts on it and say that the earth and heavens literally are going to rolled up like a scroll and will be no more soooo....if that's true....where will the new heaven, new Jerusalem be? and where will the ones who are not judged in this age be judged?  Please help me understand all this and please be patient with me.  I have a medical problem that keeps me from concentrating on things at times and absorbing them so if I can't get it into my spirit today, tomorrow I may feel fine and have no symptoms so that it opens up clearly.  I would just like to hear it here so that I don't get lost searching so much in so many different places, if that makes sense....

Thanks for you help!!
Grace

Grace
Logged

dave

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2011, 04:20:44 AM »

You hold on to your questions for awhile and read Rays writings, study the LOF series. After some reading and studying Im sure a good many of your wonderings will be clearer to you.
Logged

Akira329

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2011, 05:21:31 AM »

Hi Grace,
I hope to keep this simple as Ray has not expounded on the subject as yet.
Quote
I would like for someone to help me understand that heaven is spiritual and that it's in our minds?  But Ray says God's heaven is not in our minds? is that correct?
Here are a few quotes from Ray:
"Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN, ought to dispel and fanciful idea that the Heaven of God's Throne is in outer space on some huge galactic rock."

I believe this is the scripture Ray is referring too:
Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

"God's heaven is a higher spiritual realm of life and existence, not a geographical location in outer space."

There are neither children NOR adults in heaven. There is no Scripture that
tells us that there are humans in heaven, or that anyone will ever "go to heaven."  Heaven
is not a geographical location where we can travel to.  Heaven is a realm--a much higher
realm than humanity in their carnal, earthly state.
  Salvation has to do with becoming
like Jesus Christ, not traveling to some different location in the universe.
God be with you,
Ray


"Heaven" has several meanings, as well as the fact that there are multiple "heavens."  "In the beginning God created the HEAVENS and the earth" according to the Hebrew.
 
When God refers to Babylon or Capernaum as being lifted up to "heaven," it is not referring to God's throne, but merely as being "high," "lofty," "exalted," etc.  Jesus, however, came out of the "heaven" of His Father's realm, not high up in the sky or from outer space.
God be with you,
Ray


Grace I hope you can glean from his quotes that heaven is a realm or a state of mind or a state of existence/being

Quote
So is the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom Heaven two different things?
They are same

Quote
do we physically die here on earth and wake up here on earth, only when we awake we are in a spiritual body on earth? or what?
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Not everyone will physically die but will be changed instantly.
Look to Christ as an example of the Resurrection.

Grace, when we awake we will be in a different state of existence and its not clear what this is.
Again, Christ would be the example of a glorified spiritual body. Read about some of the things Christ did while in his resurrected body.
John 20-21
Luke 24
As Ray say's scripture is fairly silent on the subject of our future spiritual lives.

Quote
.where will the new heaven, new Jerusalem be?
Again, not a place of geographical location.
New Heaven = new mind, new state of existence
New Jerusalem = new kingdom, new church, we are/will be new Jerusalem; neither of which are in some place.

Quote
where will the ones who are not judged in this age be judged?
When resurrected there is one of two places (places used loosely) you can be, with Christ or on earth

Its best to read as much of Ray's material as you can.
A good place for you to start is with the Exposing the "Secret Rapture" Theory
http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm
Also, PHYSICAL or SPIRITUAL  RESURRECTION BODIES FOR THE WICKED & NON-BELIEVERS?
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7474.0.html
Also Gospel of the Kingdom
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html

Grace you asked some very involved questions for a thread response, nevertheless I have no doubt they will be soon be answered.
I hope what I provided so far helps direct you,

Antaiwan
Logged
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

Dawidos

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2011, 07:19:47 AM »

Hi Grace

You must understand that in this present time you will never receive a satisfying definitive answer. Why is that? Because when somebody tries to describe "the heaven" he still uses "fleshly" words from our world. Of course these are words with deeper abstract understanding like spirit, realm, higher existence etc, but you will probably not find the right words to describe this "new world". That's way the Bible is shredded in mystery on this matter.


"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

We all don't have mind in this age to comprehend this future reality.

And we mustn't forget this Scripture below is true.

But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.

Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2011, 10:11:13 AM »

Here are a few quotes from Ray:
"Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN, ought to dispel and fanciful idea that the Heaven of God's Throne is in outer space on some huge galactic rock."

I believe this is the scripture Ray is referring too:
Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


I think Ray may have changed his thinking in regards to this verse:

Excerpt from March 2011 Bible Study 'Are you Afraid of God?' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12896.msg113153.html#msg113153):

COULD JESUS BE IN HEAVEN BEFORE HIS RESURRECTION?

So Jesus Christ as a little boy didn’t go to heaven… is there any way we can find out was He ever in heaven? Is there a Scripture anywhere that says… there’s nothing in the Bible that says between, let’s say, age of 12 and 30 before His ministry actually started, that He went to heaven sometime or that He took a Sabbatical. But do we have a Scripture that says that He did go to heaven? [Comment: we have one that says He came from heaven.] Yeah there are several, I came down from heaven. Do we have one that says He went to heaven? [Comment: Don’t John 3:13 say that?] [Comment: After His death.] After His death He went to heaven, yes.

John 6:38  For I came down from heaven…

Who said John 3:13? Does that say He went to heaven? [Comment: He was the only one that went to Heaven that came down from heaven.] Okay I have it right here.

John 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
v. 13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Well “which is in heaven” Tischendorf says that is not in any original manuscripts. Scratch which is in heaven, it should end with Son of man, period.

But we always look at that Scripture to prove that nobody went to heaven. They say, ‘you die and go to heaven.’ Christ said nobody went to heaven. ‘Yeah, Abraham was in heaven.’ No he wasn’t, Christ said no man has ascended into heaven.

This one people read right over it, but this one also says, “He that came down from heaven.” He that came down from heaven, what? He’s the same One that went up. Let’s read it.

John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, BUT HE (what?)… that came down from heaven,

He that came down He ascended up to heaven. He was not dead yet, this was BEFORE the resurrection! This was in His ministry. So here is a Scripture that says , He went to heaven before He died or His resurrection. He came down from heaven and He said the same one that came down, that’s the One that ascended up! Most people read over that, but it is there, it does say it.



I think it's hard for any of us to describe something that none of us have experienced. Even Paul experienced a little and he could not fully describe it.

The best metaphor I can think of is from the movie The Matrix. When the character Neo was 'resurrected', he could see what the Matrix was really made of, computer coding. I think dwelling in heaven/being a spiritual being is like living in that computer code that makes up the physical world we see. Kind of like being in the back stage of a play. You know all the inner workings of the universe but are also able to present oneself onto the 'main stage', which is our current physical reality. Just a thought....


Marques
Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 01:08:08 PM »

I read what you wrote, but how exactly did Ray change his thinking regarding this verse from before? I don't quite get that part. Basically, what I am asking is what exactly does he think now that he didn't before?


"Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN"

The above is a quote from Ray. This is the excerpt that Antaiwan (Akira329) posted and is from from an older study where Ray references John 3:13:

John 3:13  No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven

The section in bold ('who is in heaven') we have come to understand is not in any of the oldest manuscripts, so it is considered spurious. As Ray spoke of in his latest bible study, Jesus states He ascended up to heaven, not that He was dwelling in both at once.


Hope this helps,

Marques
Logged

believerchrist100

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 01:09:50 PM »

I read what you wrote, but how exactly did Ray change his thinking regarding this verse from before? I don't quite get that part. Basically, what I am asking is what exactly does he think now that he didn't before?


"Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN"

The above is a quote from Ray. This is the excerpt that Antaiwan (Akira329) posted and is from from an older study where Ray references John 3:13:

John 3:13  No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven

The section in bold ('who is in heaven') we have come to understand is not in any of the oldest manuscripts, so it is considered spurious. As Ray spoke of in his latest bible study, Jesus states He ascended up to heaven, not that He was dwelling in both at once.


Hope this helps,

Marques

Thanks Marques! It certainly does!
Logged

JohnMichael

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 01:36:34 PM »

Quote
The best metaphor I can think of is from the movie The Matrix. When the character Neo was 'resurrected', he could see what the Matrix was really made of, computer coding. I think dwelling in heaven/being a spiritual being is like living in that computer code that makes up the physical world we see. Kind of like being in the back stage of a play. You know all the inner workings of the universe but are also able to present oneself onto the 'main stage', which is our current physical reality. Just a thought....
-Marques

I just wanted to add to what Marques was saying here. Another metaphor I use is that of the parallel universe. Heaven is right here where we are - we just aren't spiritual enough to see it. We're still tied down by this earthly flesh. It's the same as God is right here - we just can't see Him because our focus is still broken. :)

Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2011, 08:13:05 PM »


Hi Grace,

I too have had difficulty relating to the spiritual realm. We have come to understand things in this life that are clearly visible in the world around us. But there is a parallel, hidden world/realm within it and not the spiritual realm. It's a realm so tiny that it cannot be seen with the naked eye at all. That realm is the microscopic world of organisms like germs, bacteria and viruses, that until the microscope was invented was unseen and virtually unknown. Organisms live in and on our bodies as well as in every environment on earth, it is not even known how many different kinds there are. This existence is outside the human domain, a realm of microscopic organisms that inhabit a miniature world.

Now I can comprehend that microscopic realm, so I can also think of the spiritual world/realm in similar ways and this helps me understand what the spiritual realm is. We know that the spiritual/heavenly realm is different than the physical world, it is invisible to our perception, but yet very real.

1Co 15:40  There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another.

Though the heavenly realm is different and invisible we are now beginning to look into the spiritual realm by 'seeing' the light/glory of Jesus Christ, by learning the truth - being made into His image.

2Co 4:6  For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2Co 3:18 Now we all, with uncovered face, mirroring the Lord's glory, are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the spirit."(CLV)

So we are in the process of being transformed, now in our mind by learning this truth and at His return our bodies will become glorious as His is.

Rom 8:16-17  The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him.
Rom 8:30  And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.

Php 3:20-21  But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like His glorious body, by the power that enables Him even to subject all things to Himself.

Right now we are getting a taste/earnest/guarantee of the kingdom by the renewing of our mind or as "the kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21).

Eph 4:22-24  to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

We will only receive the "inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you," (1Pe 1:4) if we are in the first resurrection and then this fleshly body will be changed to join with Christ as a glorious heavenly being.

1Cor 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
v. 51  Behold, I speak a mystery to you; we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed;
v. 52  in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.
v. 53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
v. 54  But when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and when this mortal shall put on immortality, then will take place the word that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory.
v. 55  O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?"

Well that took a bit more than I thought, but I hope something in it may help.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 09:27:58 PM by Kat »
Logged

dave

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2011, 12:38:07 AM »

Quote
The best metaphor I can think of is from the movie The Matrix. When the character Neo was 'resurrected', he could see what the Matrix was really made of, computer coding. I think dwelling in heaven/being a spiritual being is like living in that computer code that makes up the physical world we see. Kind of like being in the back stage of a play. You know all the inner workings of the universe but are also able to present oneself onto the 'main stage', which is our current physical reality. Just a thought....
-Marques

I just wanted to add to what Marques was saying here. Another metaphor I use is that of the parallel universe. Heaven is right here where we are - we just aren't spiritual enough to see it. We're still tied down by this earthly flesh. It's the same as God is right here - we just can't see Him because our focus is still broken. :)


:)
Logged

daywalker

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2011, 06:18:01 PM »

Here are a few quotes from Ray:
"Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN, ought to dispel and fanciful idea that the Heaven of God's Throne is in outer space on some huge galactic rock."

I believe this is the scripture Ray is referring too:
Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


I think Ray may have changed his thinking in regards to this verse:

Excerpt from March 2011 Bible Study 'Are you Afraid of God?' (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12896.msg113153.html#msg113153):

COULD JESUS BE IN HEAVEN BEFORE HIS RESURRECTION?

So Jesus Christ as a little boy didn’t go to heaven… is there any way we can find out was He ever in heaven? Is there a Scripture anywhere that says… there’s nothing in the Bible that says between, let’s say, age of 12 and 30 before His ministry actually started, that He went to heaven sometime or that He took a Sabbatical. But do we have a Scripture that says that He did go to heaven? [Comment: we have one that says He came from heaven.] Yeah there are several, I came down from heaven. Do we have one that says He went to heaven? [Comment: Don’t John 3:13 say that?] [Comment: After His death.] After His death He went to heaven, yes.

John 6:38  For I came down from heaven…

Who said John 3:13? Does that say He went to heaven? [Comment: He was the only one that went to Heaven that came down from heaven.] Okay I have it right here.

John 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
v. 13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Well “which is in heaven” Tischendorf says that is not in any original manuscripts. Scratch which is in heaven, it should end with Son of man, period.

But we always look at that Scripture to prove that nobody went to heaven. They say, ‘you die and go to heaven.’ Christ said nobody went to heaven. ‘Yeah, Abraham was in heaven.’ No he wasn’t, Christ said no man has ascended into heaven.

This one people read right over it, but this one also says, “He that came down from heaven.” He that came down from heaven, what? He’s the same One that went up. Let’s read it.

John 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, BUT HE (what?)… that came down from heaven,

He that came down He ascended up to heaven. He was not dead yet, this was BEFORE the resurrection! This was in His ministry. So here is a Scripture that says , He went to heaven before He died or His resurrection. He came down from heaven and He said the same one that came down, that’s the One that ascended up! Most people read over that, but it is there, it does say it.



I think it's hard for any of us to describe something that none of us have experienced. Even Paul experienced a little and he could not fully describe it.

The best metaphor I can think of is from the movie The Matrix. When the character Neo was 'resurrected', he could see what the Matrix was really made of, computer coding. I think dwelling in heaven/being a spiritual being is like living in that computer code that makes up the physical world we see. Kind of like being in the back stage of a play. You know all the inner workings of the universe but are also able to present oneself onto the 'main stage', which is our current physical reality. Just a thought....


Marques


I was just about to point out the spurious "which is in heaven" passage but then saw you already did... You're awesome Marques!   8)

Logged

daywalker

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2011, 06:27:09 PM »

Thank you Kat!  At least I know I'm not the only one.  I feel as though I am a part of this microscopic world you are talking about here....so small, almost non existent, when I look at the description of heaven.  My finite mind can't even comprehend what I may be looking at here. 

De 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD’S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
1Ki 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

How man has exalted himself, eh?  To think he is so intelligent when he is so miniscule in comparison.  Indeed, how could we even think of building a house with man's hands!

Thanks again Kat!

Grace



Hey Grace,

You're definitely "not the only one". I doubt there is--or has ever been--a person walking this earth (save Jesus) that has complete (or even 50%) understanding of what exactly is "heaven". We know that the word "heaven" comes from the same Hebrew/Greek words that also mean "the sky". Perhaps that's an important key to unlocking the mystery?

Daywalker  8)
Logged

Stacey

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 431
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2011, 07:16:46 AM »

Hi Grace, this is a great subject, thanks for starting this thread.

I have nothing to offer to help you nail it down but like you I find it interesting to think on what exactly is heaven. Some thought provoking answers have come up but none that really puts the question to rest. I think that is a good thing and the way it's supposed to be.

IF heaven is a state of mind and not a geological location that's fine by me and I can't wait to get my new state of mind as the one I have now freezes up often and needs updates all the time. Maybe the new one will be perfect. I think it will be if scripture proves out to be true in the resurrection.

Thinking about heaven, after the resurrection, in our new state of mind, lets not forget the other part too. We are gonna be somewhere and be doing some things at least some of the time at a geographical location.

So, I think, lol, that even tho we may be like Jesus, (only seen when He wants to be but always here in the spiritual realm) we will also be at the new geological location, the new earth. It might be the same old ball, just refurbished but that's just my thinking on it and it's definitely clouded with Babylonian influences.

Keeping in mind that John was in the Spirit when he wrote the following, it's hard to tell what is what and especially since we believe that this is a revelation of Jesus and not John and the words of Jesus are spirit, but here is my reason for some of the thinking above.

(KJV) Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven (maybe our new, bigger, better state of mind?)and a new earth:(maybe a new or refurbished geological location?) for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Starting to freeze up again, running short on RAM, got to shut down some programs to free up processing power.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 08:54:53 AM by Stacey »
Logged
Stacey

Kat

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2011, 12:42:13 PM »


Hi Stacy and Grace,

Stacy what you were saying is my way of thinking Too. I believe that verse you brought out does happen like you were saying.

Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven (maybe our new, bigger, better state of mind?)and a new earth:(maybe a new or refurbished geological location?) for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And Christ told us that we should pray for that.

Matt 6:10  Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.

So God's kingdom/heaven will be set up on earth, by the perfect rule of Christ, that will bring about a greatly changed, "new" earth. Now for those in the first resurrection that would, of course also, also mean a great change in them... they would become "like" Christ!

1John 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

When we have put off this carnal flesh we will no longer have that as a hindrance. That carnal body or mind will be no longer as we will be joined with Christ and most importantly we will be "like" Christ!

John 10:30  I and the Father are one!

Luke 10:22  All things are delivered to Me by My Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son will reveal Him.

What is it to be "one" with the Father? What is it to "know" the Father?  Well isn't that what heaven would have to be?!  That those resurrected or changed at the first resurrection will receive the mind of God and be made perfect like He is? We will be "like" Jesus and He "always" said and does the will of the Father, ALWAYS.

John 8:29  And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things which please Him.

John 5:19  Then Jesus answered and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of Himself but what He sees the Father do. For whatever things He does, these also the Son does likewise.
v. 20  For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all the things that He Himself does. And He will show Him greater works than these, so that you may marvel.

John 12:49  For I have not spoken of Myself, but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say, and what I should speak.
v. 50  And I know that His command is life everlasting. Therefore whatever I speak, even as the Father said to Me, so I speak.

So yes Grace heaven would be when the Elect are made perfect and can serve God perfectly. They will reign and rule with Christ over all those on earth who are yet to receive salvation, in perfect Harmony with God's will, never making a mistake!! That's what heaven must be to me and then this verse will be fully realized in us.

Luke 10:27  And answering, he said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.
v. 28  And He said to him, You have answered right; do this and you shall live.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2011, 01:35:12 PM »

Hi Stacy and Grace,

Stacy what you were saying is my way of thinking Too. I believe that verse you brought out does happen like you were saying.

Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven (maybe our new, bigger, better state of mind?)

Well isn't that what heaven would have to be?!


Maybe not exactly as you all have explained. This verse came to mind while reading you all's responses:

Job 1:6  Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

Seeing that God dwells in heaven [Ps 123:1], this passage must have taken place in heaven. But to dwell in heaven does not automatically equate to being perfect in spiritual character, seeing that Satan is present as well.



Marques
Logged

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2144
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2011, 01:43:06 PM »

Interesting point Marques,

However please consider, Satan IS perfect for the role that he must play in God's plan.
Satan was created to be the accuser of the "brethren"
Satan does nothing that God does not allow and approve, for now.

Bob
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2011, 01:49:03 PM »


Oh okay, good point to make Marques. But I was referring the the Elect that would be perfected when they come up in the first resurrection. If heaven will come down on earth, then those in the second resurrection certainly will not be perfected into righteousness yet, just like Satan and the demons are not righteous yet either. 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

 
Logged

mharrell08

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2011, 02:07:19 PM »


Oh okay, good point to make Marques. But I was referring the the Elect that would be perfected when they come up in the first resurrection. If heaven will come down on earth, then those in the second resurrection certainly will not be perfected into righteousness yet, just like Satan and the demons are not righteous yet either. 

mercy, peace and love
Kat


I'm not sure it's a safe assumption that one will be made perfect immediately in the First Resurrection. It takes great time to be perfect, as only God is perfect. I don't see that happening in the time it takes to bring one out of the ground or to 'change them' in a twinkling of an eye [1 Cor 15:51-52].

Patience is just one attribute that one must have to be perfect, and that attribute takes time to develop. When you add all the other fruits of the spirit, that takes even more time to bring to perfection. There's an email reply from Ray, I'll try to find it later today, where he mentions that we may have a lot to do even after Christ returns to gather His Elect.

The Matrix metaphor just came back to mind: even when Neo was resurrected and could see all the coding that made up the Matrix, he still didn't know exactly what he was to do. He had incredible gifts, but it took more trials for him to come to the point of knowing exactly how to 'save' humanity. I know this is an imperfect metaphor, but even still, just food for thought.


Marques
Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2011, 02:09:17 PM »

1John 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him AS HE IS.

Not as He WAS or as He shall be, but as He IS...TODAY

Heb 4:7  He again definitely mentions a certain day, "To-day,"


The Resurrection of Jesus in us today, is not in what a human mind in limitation, might imagine.

The Kingdom of God is not in the mind of mortal man but the Mind of Immortal Christ, the Resurrection and the Life of unimaginable frontiers of liberty, peace and sanctification that the world can not know or see.

We are not of the world but of the Kingdom of God, with the Mind of Christ who says, YOU are the Light of the World, the Salt of the earth.

1Co 2:10  But God hath revealed them to us by his Spirit; for the Spirit searcheth all things, even the deep things of God.


The deep things of God are those things Eternal, not subject to space or time, friend or foe, birth or death, but to rebirth and immortality, in Christ both Alpha and Omega are fullfilled in His Kingdom within you and I.


Arc
Logged

Rene

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1531
Re: What exactly is heaven?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2011, 02:45:13 PM »

Hi Grace,

Back to your original question, "What exactly is heaven?," we obviously don't know exactly all that God's heaven entails, however, I have complete confidence that we will all know eventually.  Patience is a virtue. :)

René 
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.045 seconds with 23 queries.