> General Discussions
Just defending someone slightly...
HopeinChrist480:
--- Quote from: zander on May 24, 2011, 05:14:08 PM ---
Secondly the Leviticus Codes of Holiness no longer apply to NT Christians. Leviticus 20:9 orders death to children for cursing their parents? Do we abide by that today, NO! We are under a NEW LAW!
--- End quote ---
We aren't under The Old Covenant of the Law anymore but The New Covenant of Grace. Grace is not a law. Just because we are under Grace does not give us a license to sin. We can sin. Any sin. Should we? NO. Homosexuality is still a sin. The same goes for lesbianism and bisexuality. If anybody dies in one of these three sins, they will go to the temporary lake burning with fire and sulfur. Therefore, they will not be one of the firstfruits. Scripture makes it very clear in Unveiling and 1 Corinthians that this is STILL a sin. Thus we dislike sin but realize that these are human-beings in trouble, living in such. We have to get them out of sin and get them to live in Christ. The word catamite in the following verse of Unveiling means a person living in homosexuality. Wouldn't the word catamite also encompass lesbians and bisexuals? I believe so. Why would lesbianism and bisexuality be any different? They wouldn't. Do you think that God favors one over the other? HE DOES NOT LIKE SIN AT ALL. Thus all of these are sins. In other words the sexually immoral will be in the lake burning with fire and sulfur if they do not turn from their sins. Many of the sexually immoral will try and give you the run-around and avoid your explanations of Scripture because they are trying to justify their sins. BEWARE! There's also no such thing as somebody being more homosexual than other homosexuals. They are all 100% homosexuals. Such is the same for lesbians and bisexuals. They all live in the same sin. There's also 1 Corinthians 6:9 that you need meditate on.
Unveiling 21:8 (Concordant Literal)
8 Yet the timid, and unbelievers, and the abominable, and murderers, and paramours, and enchanters, and idolaters, and all the false-their part is in the lake burning with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.
1 Corinthians 6:9 (Concordant Literal)
9 Or are you not aware that the unjust shall not be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom? Be not deceived. Neither paramours, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor catamites, nor sodomites,
HopeinChrist480:
--- Quote from: Grace on May 24, 2011, 09:40:49 PM ---
--- Quote ---We have to get them out of sin and get them to live in Christ.
--- End quote ---
We have to??? I may regret this but, how do "we" get them to do anything? I have been trying to "get" my son to believe in the one hope he has for peace, mercy, grace, love, salvation.....I can't DO anything outside of what Christ wants me to do..
I am not trying to make you feel foolish or judge you or whatever, my friend, but this is hard for me to be silent on..... I have been trying to DO what I thought was right my whole life and it all failed....like Ray says, we can't even take a breath if HE doesn't will it to happen...in one of Ray's studies he says that if you don't believe that just try holding your breath and see if you can make yourself die......you can't do it. Maybe someone can bring that study up for you but, I am finding the longer I live the more I realize that I am in control of nothing....THANK GOD.
I say this out of a very humble attitude, I promise you. It's not one of pride.......I would not wish anyone to walk in my shoes to find that path....
Grace
--- End quote ---
I understand what you are saying. Sorry, I made a mistake there. It should read, " 'We should help them out of sin and help get them to live in Christ.' " Of course it's God who wills in us. Thanks for the concern.
octoberose:
I've started thinking that the penalty for sins in the old testament is the penalty that Jesus had to pay on the cross. Death, separation, all of it. When we curse our parents we don't physically die- we spiritually die and Jesus paid for that with his physical death. He did not receive grace up on that cross-He received that old testament penalty. He was the Ram -we are Isaac. But the penalty is always paid.
Samson:
--- Quote from: Grace on May 25, 2011, 01:07:54 AM ---oK, so please replY....ARE WE ALL PUPPETS HERE? GEEZ wHY IS EVERYONE SO AFRAID?
--- End quote ---
Grace,
No, We are not Puppets, but I don't want to veer into that Responsibility versus Accountability accompanied with they have the desire, so they Sin, but All of Us were Created exceedingly weak to avoid Sinning, but God's doing a Work in Us, creating Humanity in His Image, but it's a process, primarily targeting God's Chosen Elect during this Lifetime(AGE) routine. However, We have a History of Threads accompanied by discussions on this Subject, as a matter of fact, there is an Email by Ray, right from the Front page entitled, ARE WE PUPPETS, so I shall copy & paste it for you below. God created Humanity(Male/Female) too spiritually weak not to Sin. God is the Author of every cause, every circumstance and every response by Humans that ever took place, presently takes place and will take place, but We are participants, Actors & Actresses, if you will in this Great Play(The Human condition), written & directed By God. Read Ray Below.
Dear Ray,
In the letter I sent on July 23 about freedom of choice you answered me with this reply "we are not the captains of our own destiny ... you will quit smoking when GOD DECIDES YOU WILL QUIT SMOKING and not before"
If this is true, then we ARE puppets with God pulling the strings. This means that God is in charge of all sin.
If this is so why did Jesus have to suffer for our sins if we really are not in control of sinning?
If it is true then all of those TV evangelists are preaching about hell because GOD HASN'T DECIDED TO STOP THEM YET.
All the misinterpretations of the bible that cause people to hate God's children because they are different WONT STOP UNTIL GOD DECIDES.
Ray is this what you mean is happening unknown to us? I just want to understand what you are saying. I really am not being arrogant, even though its sounds that way.
I am a Christian for sixty years. For the past two years I have been researching past Christian history. It puts a new outlook on what I have read. I have always blamed mankind for the Spanish inquisition, slavery, white man slaughtering the American Indians, etc.
I just don't want to believe they were all GODS DECISIONS. Do you understand what Ii am trying to say Ray?
Very sincerely,
Grace
Dear Grace:
Your feelings and thoughts are not unusual. Many people who come into a knowledge of the Truth [Jesus] have a real battle on their hands for some time.
YES, God is in control of EVERYTHING--EVERY THING!!!
Consider the alternative of this fact. God IS NOT IN CONTROL OF ANYTHING!!! Would that make you happier? Of course not. It's just that we want to place God where WE THINK HE SHOULD FIT INTO OUR FRAME OF THINKING.
Either God created His own ENEMY (Satan), or Satan created HIMSELF and God was helpless to stop him and has been loosing out to Satan by a ratio of ten to one for the past so many thousands of years. This is what Christendom teaches. This is NOT what the Scriptures teach.
By the way, we are considerably more complex than a mere puppet. But it is true that God controls us every bit as much as a puppeteer controls a puppet. And God is not ashamed to admit that this is the case. God says that a man CANNOT DIRECT HIS OWN STEPS, that the response of the tongue IS FROM THE ETERNAL, that ALL IS OF GOD, that God is operating ALL according to the counsel of His own will, that HE Himself is the CREATOR OF EVIL, it was God who planted the forbidden fruit tree in the garden than contained not only good, but a knowledge of EVIL as well, it is GOD who sets up the rulers of all governments, one can only come to Christ when God decides to "draw [Greek, drag] him to Christ," and a thousand and one other things. So why do we have trouble believing all these Scriptures?
You ask why Christ should die for the sins of humanity which were known and brought about by God Himself? I would as you of what purpose would be Christ's crucifixion if it saved no one except those who somehow came to Christ by their own free will ASIDE from any "drawing of the Father"?
The problem is, Grace, that we have been so brainwashed by the pagan and heretical theories of carnal-minded men that it is difficult to believe and rejoice in the plain, simple, and yet marvelously profound truths of God's Perfect Plan for the Salvation of all Mankind!
Meditate on this theme for a couple of years, Grace, and it will all become very clear--trust me, it will!
Sincerely,
Ray
Hope This Helps, Samson.
HopeinChrist480:
--- Quote from: Samson on May 25, 2011, 06:31:46 AM ---
--- Quote from: Grace on May 25, 2011, 01:07:54 AM ---oK, so please replY....ARE WE ALL PUPPETS HERE? GEEZ wHY IS EVERYONE SO AFRAID?
--- End quote ---
Grace,
No, We are not Puppets, but I don't want to veer into that Responsibility versus Accountability accompanied with they have the desire, so they Sin, but All of Us were Created exceedingly weak to avoid Sinning, but God's doing a Work in Us, creating Humanity in His Image, but it's a process, primarily targeting God's Chosen Elect during this Lifetime(AGE) routine. However, We have a History of Threads accompanied by discussions on this Subject, as a matter of fact, there is an Email by Ray, right from the Front page entitled, ARE WE PUPPETS, so I shall copy & paste it for you below. God created Humanity(Male/Female) too spiritually weak not to Sin. God is the Author of every cause, every circumstance and every response by Humans that ever took place, presently takes place and will take place, but We are participants, Actors & Actresses, if you will in this Great Play(The Human condition), written & directed By God. Read Ray Below.
Dear Ray,
In the letter I sent on July 23 about freedom of choice you answered me with this reply "we are not the captains of our own destiny ... you will quit smoking when GOD DECIDES YOU WILL QUIT SMOKING and not before"
If this is true, then we ARE puppets with God pulling the strings. This means that God is in charge of all sin.
If this is so why did Jesus have to suffer for our sins if we really are not in control of sinning?
If it is true then all of those TV evangelists are preaching about hell because GOD HASN'T DECIDED TO STOP THEM YET.
All the misinterpretations of the bible that cause people to hate God's children because they are different WONT STOP UNTIL GOD DECIDES.
Ray is this what you mean is happening unknown to us? I just want to understand what you are saying. I really am not being arrogant, even though its sounds that way.
I am a Christian for sixty years. For the past two years I have been researching past Christian history. It puts a new outlook on what I have read. I have always blamed mankind for the Spanish inquisition, slavery, white man slaughtering the American Indians, etc.
I just don't want to believe they were all GODS DECISIONS. Do you understand what Ii am trying to say Ray?
Very sincerely,
Grace
Dear Grace:
Your feelings and thoughts are not unusual. Many people who come into a knowledge of the Truth [Jesus] have a real battle on their hands for some time.
YES, God is in control of EVERYTHING--EVERY THING!!!
Consider the alternative of this fact. God IS NOT IN CONTROL OF ANYTHING!!! Would that make you happier? Of course not. It's just that we want to place God where WE THINK HE SHOULD FIT INTO OUR FRAME OF THINKING.
Either God created His own ENEMY (Satan), or Satan created HIMSELF and God was helpless to stop him and has been loosing out to Satan by a ratio of ten to one for the past so many thousands of years. This is what Christendom teaches. This is NOT what the Scriptures teach.
By the way, we are considerably more complex than a mere puppet. But it is true that God controls us every bit as much as a puppeteer controls a puppet. And God is not ashamed to admit that this is the case. God says that a man CANNOT DIRECT HIS OWN STEPS, that the response of the tongue IS FROM THE ETERNAL, that ALL IS OF GOD, that God is operating ALL according to the counsel of His own will, that HE Himself is the CREATOR OF EVIL, it was God who planted the forbidden fruit tree in the garden than contained not only good, but a knowledge of EVIL as well, it is GOD who sets up the rulers of all governments, one can only come to Christ when God decides to "draw [Greek, drag] him to Christ," and a thousand and one other things. So why do we have trouble believing all these Scriptures?
You ask why Christ should die for the sins of humanity which were known and brought about by God Himself? I would as you of what purpose would be Christ's crucifixion if it saved no one except those who somehow came to Christ by their own free will ASIDE from any "drawing of the Father"?
The problem is, Grace, that we have been so brainwashed by the pagan and heretical theories of carnal-minded men that it is difficult to believe and rejoice in the plain, simple, and yet marvelously profound truths of God's Perfect Plan for the Salvation of all Mankind!
Meditate on this theme for a couple of years, Grace, and it will all become very clear--trust me, it will!
Sincerely,
Ray
Hope This Helps, Samson.
--- End quote ---
Actually, we are all puppets. I by no means mean this in a bad way. Puppets in the hands of a loving puppet master and that is God. If we aren't puppets then what would be the word? His sovereign will is greater than our limited one. Everything that happens in life is because of God and He loves everyone, we are all important to His plan. Therefore, we aren't just puppets. Some may still have trouble understanding the puppet master doctrine which is understandable.
The problem is, Grace, that we have been so brainwashed by the pagan and heretical theories of carnal-minded men that it is difficult to believe and rejoice in the plain, simple, and yet marvelously profound truths of God's Perfect Plan for the Salvation of all Mankind!
Sincerely,
Ray
Hope This Helps, Samson.
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