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[GaryK]

Whelp, I’m gonna rant to you like-minded believers.
 
I'm not a stranger on this forum and I've been here for a while and yea, I usually do rant when I post, and my posts are rare except for the occasional reply, but, I speak my mind, and not just with you-all, but every day on the porch with my dog toward God over coffee, minus him, but you know that already.

The escape key is to the left top, hit it while you can.

Bad things happen to good people.
   
Bad things happen to bad people.

The difference usually is that the good people look for....why???....the bad people don’t give a rat’s behind about why, why?...because that’s the world of depravity, greed, self-deceit and selfishness they live, so they don’t care.   Allowing a little room for those who....’may’ have a small string of decency buried somewhere in their pea-pickin heart.

But THIS?!!!!....God, THIS?

Body of Toddler Missing in Joplin, Missouri, Tornado Found at Morgue, Relatives Say

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/26/body-toddler-missing-joplin-tornado/#ixzz1NU9Z2ZZz

Why.......It’s God’s will, of course, GK.  We don’t question it now that we KNOW it’s god’s will, we just say, “well, it’s gods will GK, and he’s a good and holy god and so one day we’ll all know GK”.  Oh, and forgive us lord when we doubt.
 
THIS!......is where the bone picking starts, and THIS is where I have wrestled for so long.  So much so that I believe I am, or have, lost belief and faith that there even IS a god.  If weighed in the balance it leans toward there simply isn’t a god, we’re all just some sort of loose mechanism of dog eat dog.

But.

This is in-excusable.  In-excusable!!    A baby.   A 16 month old baby, mind you .....GOD!....., plucked out of mom’s arms in a whirlwind, straight from God’s heaven, and plopped down on the ground at what?.....205 mph?...with what would be, I’m certain, every little bone broken.    For WHAT???   To appease a plan?   A plan of what?   Mercy?  I’ve pretty sure I can nail your plan of mercy in about 4 words, a pile of....(you figure the rest).
   
But, of all the bad things going on in this world where ‘justice’ could be better served, shaped and defined in some of more particular circumstances where it most assuredly belongs, and I’ve said it before and it’s true, some souls serve better purpose in this life as puddles.  And I’ve stomped a few and a couple down to that level, God’s will, of course.  Not particularly proud of it.  Ashamed, actually.  But that's his problem cause it was his will.  So be it.
   
But instead, we get this, this.....child heaped in broken bones and a family with broken hearts.

I won’t bring up the husband who threw his body over his wife while the twister was churning.    He died, she lived.   She’s dying inside her heart now.

Yes indeed, God’s perfect, holy, loving, unquestionable WILL.
 
I’m losing my faith folks, if I ever had any.  I’m losing ground, hard.   I once looked at God as a loving god, way back when, but, I don’t do that anymore.  I question him.  I literally curse at him.  I scream at him sometimes, rarely, but I do.   And not just over this but over a conglomeration of things that happened that I just don’t understand, at all, now that I’ve learned they all come from his..er...loving plan.    I’m losing my mind and control trying to better understand this...’god’.... that I once held in high regard and esteem.  I tell him to just leave me be, don’t give me some one-trillionth of wisdom and then parlay the ‘pearl’ as....‘gee GK, you go find the rest, but know this, it’s all a big mystery’.    Bull, either give it or go hide behind your bush, you’re good at it and you usually do..... routinely.

God help us all, no really, because I believe I’m at the point of just hanging up my cleats.

If anyone deserves the lake of fire, I do, for all the bad attitude and bad words I’ve said in the last four years against God and Christ.  And I have.  I don’t have a good heart for it anymore, I've lost my handle on it, if I ever did. And I don’t see any change coming on, not for the better anyway.
 
Maybe it’s not true after all, this......’he finishes what he starts’.
   
The valley is deep where I am, and there’s no light here.

There's things and people in this world that accountability needs be held NOW, and it can start with my bad attitude, I'll take it and I can handle it, I think, but BY GOD, spread it to those that deserve it more.  I'm not foolish and I haven't gone so far as to not be afeared of God hands, but, I'm close.

Don’t come here, hold to your faith with all you've got (if he gives it to you).

gk

[Dave in Tenn]

OK if I rant back?

Been there and done that, GK.  

I didn't ask to believe.  There are many days I wish I didn't.  I understand what you are going through.  It's the whiny, self-serving bull as I lived through.  Nothing new.

Thirty seconds before clicking onto B-T.com, I was an agnostic and living life as a functional atheist--not the thoughtfull, chin-stroking kind, but the 'who gives a ****' kind.  The only thing that kept me from total despair and suicide was laziness and apathy.  On top of that, I couldn't stand high-and-mightily above it all imagining that I was part of the solution for the evil of the world.  I was part of the problem.  Try living with that, if you really hate evil.

In my travels, I've only encountered three possible 'true scenarios'.  1.  There is no God and all this is random.  2.  There is a God, and He is a dithering, finger-waggling, sadistic, weak *******.  3.  There is God and I am not Him.

Consider that a hug, Gary.  That's the best I can do.


  

[daywalker]

I certainly feel ya, GK, I don't for a moment judge you for how you feel as I go through these same spills. That being said, this may not seem true to you at this time, but it is true nonetheless: God loves that 16-month old baby far more than you do, and far more than its parents did. It doesn't sound plausible considering the circumstances, I know. When I am having similar thoughts & feelings as you are right now I try to reflect on what Paul said to the Romans:

"Why, what we now suffer I count as nothing in comparison with the glory which is soon to be manifested in us." (Rom 8:18)

Whatever's coming, beginning in the next age, has got to be amazingly, overwhelmingly, a-w-e-s-o-m-e if what we all suffer here now is "nothing in comparison"! 


Hope this helps. Godspeed,

Christopher 

[Joel]

Escape key, I have been an escapist most of my life.
A preacher I had some respect for many years ago, said to leave God, religion, everything that I had at that time, and see if God would allow it.
I took him at his word, and did just that, was I any better off?, I thought I was at least for a short time.
Tried to put all I knew behind me, it worked to a small degree but I was a miserable man.
After some 20 years God rung my number, so here I am today. This is BT, so here are a couple for you.

Psalms 51:6, Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

Hebrews 12:25-29, So see to it that you obey him who is speaking to you. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, how terrible our danger if we refuse to listen  to God who speaks to us from heaven!
When he spoke from Mount Sinai his voice shook the earth, but, "next time," he says, I will not only shake the earth , but the heavens too." By this he means that he will sift out everything without solid foundations, so that only the unshakable things will be left.
Since we have a kingdom nothing can destroy, let us please God by serving him with thankful hearts, and with holy fear and awe. For our God is a consuming fire.

Joel

[John from Kentucky]

gk

Yeah, I read that story about the baby.  It bothers me.  I cannot completely understand it.

I believe there is a God because I cannot make myself believe there is not a God.  Where did everything come from?  I refuse to be stupid and believe that all this stuff (including mankind) made itself out of nothing.  No one has been able to show me how something can make itself.  Therefore, I am left with the conclusion that there is a sovereign God.

God and good I can easily understand.

God and evil?  I cannot as easily make the connection.  Apparently, from the scriptures, a knowledge of good and evil is a necessary requisite to have a mind like God.  If we were just told about evil, or just read about it in a book, apparently we wouldn't understand it.  Therefore, it is necessary for us to experience evil in order to truly understand it.  God is rubbing evil in our faces, both individually and mankind as a whole, for us to truly understand evil.

God gave all life.  God takes all life.  "...The LORD gave and the LORD takes away, praise be to the name of the LORD."  Job 1:21  Can the pot judge the Potter?  In the ages to come He will resurrect all mankind back to life and give us all immortal life in happiness.

Jesus had a hard time of torture and death.  If I were Jesus, I would have asked, " What did I do to deserve this?"

So, I cannot completely understand evil now.  But I do believe complete understanding will be given to me in the future.  That is good enough for me right now.

John

[Craig]

If we were just told about evil, or just read about it in a book, apparently we wouldn't understand it.

John you are hitting the nail on the head.  Look at the men and women brains thread.  As men, most have read about women, lived with women and experienced inmate moments and emotions with women.  And women have done the same with men.   Do we understand them?  No not even close, and we cannot unless we live as them and be them.  So it is the same for evil, we must experience it to have any understanding.  Now we are clay in Gods hands, but eventually we will be a finished work and as children of God be capable of being like God.

Craig

[gmik]

Wow gk...I still think that......I can't get my head around God doing evil- yet I see it in scripture-He created evil...yes this story was heart breaking, but billions of children have had horrific lives and deaths since the dawn of time...so have all people.

This world by and large sucks!!  We await a better one.

I was at a bible study the other day, and the teacher said absolutely not that God had sent that tornado--he blesses, he doesn't do this kind of stuff.  Even thinking about that little child then, I still knew the teacher was wrong...

God is Large and in Charge...of Every single thing!


 gk thank you for ranting and loving us to share that w/ us---many wouldn't have been so honest.

Craig, funny to compare to brain thread but its right on!

Dave, I love those 3 positions-very profound!

Joel and Grace good thoughts

[moxicarose]

Wow...gk, you put into words the thoughts that have swirled relentlessly back and forth through my head for a very long time. Doubts that drown the faith I so desperately want to have firmly planted in my soul, but seems to be hanging on by a waterlogged wisp of a root. Times when I am struggling hardest with my personal tests and trials, I have begged God not to let my lose all faith in Him.  So often, I feel I'm not even a hairs breadth away from bitter, cynical, utter disbelief. I did  tell God to go fly a kite when I was 16 after seeing all the hypocrisy and cruelty on my doorstep and worldwide...but I was dragged back and experienced things that made me ALMOST SURE that we're not alone. Some of those things involved loss in my life, and some involved restoration. I have felt a connection to the Biblical character Job throughout my life, and I see the pattern of loss and restoration. I'm  holding on to hope that the devastating losses of people in all these horrid storms is not for nothing...and that sweet baby child is not dead for nothing and the parents' are not heartbroken for nothing. Hoping in the midst of seemingly unsparing pain is not something that anyone can just do... I have experienced a granting of hope in my life when there was no earthly hope given me. I am going to pray that for you, for the family of that sweet baby and all who are affected.

   

[Stacey]

Gary some of your words have been some of my thoughts too. I am glad you shared your rant. Thinking on the back porch, coffee, dog and God behind the bush mornings, I'm right there with you. From our perspective if we wanted to; it would be easy to draw a conclusion that there is no god. There is no doubt to me about that at all. There is only one thing that keeps me from doing just that and that is like JFK, I couldn't do it if I wanted too and I'd almost put money on it that you can't either.

Moxicarose brought out a very important thing. "Doubts that drown the faith"

Obviously, that is a problem for you, me and any of the rest of us struggling with what we see happening all around us and what we are not seeing from God. I think the 3 options that Dave gave are good ones. I have believed all of them on different days of the week at different times of the day. The hard part about having the doubts is that "we" know without a doubt that they are caused. Nothing we can do about it. Struggle as we will, beat our chest, curse all we want at God and the end result will be the same. We cannot change a thing. It's all Him.

What we see is part of the problem because we don't see it correctly. No what we see is the baby being sucked up in a whirlwind and crushed into the ground. We don't see it right. Our perspective is all screwed up because we don't have "eyes to see" it like God does. We see everything through a cloud of crap.

From "faith to faith" this will pan out differently. For the atheist, no faith needed and no problem, its all random and puts even more bullets in their guns for shooting down God. For Christendom, no problem, God doesn't do such terrible things like that, the Devil does. For US, IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM, for some of us.

I do think that the valley you believe you are in is not a valley at all, no Sir, it's a meat grinder. A flesh ripping, crushing, destroying meat grinder.

As I was reading this thread to my Wife this morning she noticed the shirt I was wearing had a on the sleeve "God is good all the time" and she said, "maybe it shouldn't say that at all but instead read, God is God all the time" and hey, from our perspective, Amen!

[Kat]

Hi Gray,

Well the evil in this world is certainly a hard thing to figure out, but I think that anger comes because we are seeing through a glass darkly right now. Maybe we have to come to that child like trust in God, so we do not question harshly what is being done here and now on this earth. Of course we feel deep heart wrenching sorrow when we hear about such a precious little life being snuffed out. But where did that emotion come from? God gives us these emotions and feelings so that we can deeply experience this life, so it will have a great impact on us less we forget how terrible this world/age really is.

Look at the animal world, mother animals are fiercely protective of their young, and when they die they instinctively will stand guard over them not even knowing they are dead. But they will soon leave and forget about their lose baby. But God gives us memory, so we don't forget, I don't think we will forget these things we experience through all eternity.

We look at death and only see the immediately results, that child is gone and the parents are terribly grief stricken, it is all just heart breaking. This is looking at it from our very limited perspective of right now. But don't we know that child will live again? That child will be raised up and live it's life out in the next age, isn't that our hope within. Think about that child being given back to it's parents to grow up in the next age without all the terrible possibilities that could happen to them in this age. It will be an age of peace under Christ's rule, we can not imagine how good would that be. God knows the end from the beginning, He knows what's ahead for that child as well as all the other people that suffer in this world, HE WILL MAKE IT RIGHT!

Here are a couple of places Ray speaks on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3815.0 ------------------

We must be careful how we use words and phrases and also be careful not
to draw fallacious conclusions from Scriptural Truths. The Bible nowhere says
that God "pre-ordained" such sins. It says he has a fore-knowledge OF such
sins. Many people over the years have tried to force me into saying that God sins
and that God is evil, but I won't say it, because I don't believe it. God nowhere
says that He "ordains" sin, and so I don't say it either.
 
God did not "pre-ordain" me to eat Girl Scott cookies today, but I did. Man has
the ability to think, plan, create, imagine, and carry out these devised lusts of his
heart, and yes, God KNEW a long time ago just what we would do,  but nowhere
does it say that God "pre-ordained" our sins. We live and operate under law. We
automatically do certain things under certain stimuli. It does not need to be "pre-
ordained."
 
Maybe what you are really asking is why did God create humanity so that they would
sin under all of these different stimuli?  But that's a topic too big for an email. Besides,
I have covered these things many times in the articles on our site. If you look up ordain
or ordained in a concordance, you will find that God has ordained dozens of things in
the Scripture, but nowhere does it say He ordained particular sins.


http://bible-truths.com/part5.htm -------------------------------

The Scriptures say that: "All is of God ... " (II Cor. 5:18), yet we just read that God " ... is trying no one." That is, God Himself, is not trying or testing us to see how well we fare. He already knows the verdict. He already knows, that we don't "fare" well at all. God knows all (I John 3:21). The reason God doesn't, Himself, try anyone is because He doesn't need to try anyone for His benefit-He already knows all. Notice Webster's Dictionary: "trial, 1. the act of hearing a case in a law court to DECIDE WHETHER the claim or charge is true." Surely, no one is so audacious as to think God needs evidence in a trial to determine the truth. God sends the trials, but God does not do the trying-He already knows the outcome-but man doesn't. Man desperately needs trials to prove to himself (not God), that he is a failure and needs a Saviour. The trials are for our benefit, for our learning, not for God's benefit and God's learning - God knows all.

We can accomplish no good of ourselves. What we are to learn is contained in the next passage: "Be not deceived [but of course, most people are deceived], my beloved brethren! ALL GOOD giving and EVERY perfect gratuity is from above, descending from the FATHER of lights ... " (Jas. 1:16). That is the lesson we, not God, are to learn and our trials are a great aid in understanding God's goodness.

Again, consider Joseph and his brothers. Joseph told his brothers:

"Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither ... " (Gen. 45:4).

What? Don't be "grieved," or "angry with yourselves," for committing such atrocious sins, crimes, and evils? This was certainly a severe trial on Joseph and his brothers. God brought it about, not so He could see how they would handle this trial-God already knew that. That's why God, Himself, "tries no one".

"For GOD did SEND ME before you to PRESERVE LIFE" (same verse).

Not so that God would learn something He didn't already know. How silly. It was ALL of God, and the end more than justified the means. Why do men doubt God's ability to bring about good from evil, and to save all mankind in the only way they could ever really appreciate God's love and goodness? Even that greatest of evils, death, will be "Swallowed up by Victory" (I Cor. 15:54). "For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ shall ALL be vivified" (I Cor. 15:22). What was God's purpose in bringing this severe trial on Joseph and his brothers?

"And God sent me before you to preserve you a posterity in the earth, and to SAVE YOUR LIVES by a great deliverance. So now it was NOT you that sent me hither, BUT GOD: and He hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt" (Gen. 45:7-8).

God's plan is all about "life." God creates life. God chastises us in life. God makes life miserable at times. We are often weak and diseased in life. Even still, we love our own lives. But ultimately, God takes away our lives. Our parents die, our friends and relatives die. We know for certain that we, ourselves, will die. Without faith, it is a frightening expectation. But, we will all be beside ourselves with joy when God finally gives back our lives with immortality-never to suffer, sorrow, or hurt again. We simply need to trust God. We'll all be so glad we took the journey at journey's end.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Extol]

Hebrews 2:14-15 (NLT): Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death. Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.

First the physical, and then the spiritual. These physical lives we live now are only a shadow of things to come. All flesh must be destroyed, because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:50), and  The flesh profits nothing (John 6:63).

It's hard and it's painful--although I didn't know anybody in it, this tornado hit me more than the other recent tragedies, because I'm from Springfield, MO, about an hour away.  But the truth remains, that these fleshly bodies must be destroyed. This is a very hard thing for Christians (and everyone else) to accept, and it's a major reason why there are only a select few who believe what we believe.

As Kat said, we see only through a glass darkly. We know only in part, and because of that, we are subjected to anger, confusion, frustration, and doubt. But God has given us enough of a glimpse to know that He knows what He is doing, "down to the vibration of the last electron" (L. Ray Smith).

Only in silence the word.
Only in dark the light.
Only in dying life...

--Ursula K. Le Guin

[JohnMichael]

GK & Others,

I can definitely relate to how you feel. There have been times when I'm so angry at what's going on, but I dare not openly say it. I've always had a fear of He who holds my life in His hands in those moments.

While this scenario pales in comparison to situations like with this baby, I recently discovered that college credits which I was given when I transfered to my current school are now being ripped away from me. The reason behind it appears to be that the Admissions person lied to me in order for the school to get more money. My initial response was, "Lord, really? REALLY? Like I don't have enough to deal with right now? Where is the mercy? Why are you doing this to me? I already have enough to contend with. One thing at a time, Lord." Again, pot judging and questioning the Potter. Later in the day, I repented, and said, "Lord, you had this happen for a reason. I don't understand it. I'm not happy about it AT ALL. However, if it's Your will that I retake these courses, I will do so. If it is not Your will, then please show mercy and soften some people's hearts." 20 credits that were given to me are now being taken away. In terms of semesters, that's two whole semesters of work vanishing into thin air - an entire year's worth of work and study... GONE in the blink of an eye.

When we get angry at God for something that we can't even see the whole picture for, is it an extension of our pride? We deep down think that God is doing a bang-up job and that we would do it better? Maybe that is the precise reason why we go through things to cause this - to burn out that selfish pride. I'm merely posing these questions for thought; I am not accusing anyone. What are your thoughts?

John

[gmik]

John go to another school that will accept those credits!!

Kat, thanks for Ray's teachings...alwayys spot on...we will be beside ourselves w/ joy....boy that is awesome!

Hasn't Ray said somewhere that ...people really despise the word and God? down deep?...

When I get mad at God, because I would have handled it better (like no tornado, no babies dying etc), that is really setting myself up as God on my own throne and really, peeling back all my layers, is despising God!

That is not a place I want to be in.

[arion]

I tend to be a pretty simple man...I don't try to figure it all out.  God is GOD and we are not.  We either trust him that he knows what he is doing and is working a perfect plan or we don't.  He has shown us enough through his word and his actions that he is working all out to the good.  That includes the Hitler's of this world and the evil that they do along with the child molesters as well as natural disasters.  I look at his mercy in my own life and I know with confirmation that is plan is both good and necessary.  The scripture sometimes has a hard word for us but it is a needful word.

Rom 9:20  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I realize the questions and the bewilderment of why things are the way that they are.  You look at the tornadoes that have swept away the just and the unjust and then consider all the evils of the world.....

It comes down to this simple question.  Do you trust him or do you not?  Do you believe his word that he is working out a plan that will be a 'win-win' for all of his creation or don't you?  I don't understand all of these things and why they need to happen but I do trust him that he knows what he is doing and I also trust his nature as he gave his own son for the propitiation of all of our sins.  That one act in and of itself is enough to prove his love for us.  He is God and we are not.  It is enough.

[Rene]

Whelp, I’m gonna rant to you like-minded believers.
 
God help us all, no really, because I believe I’m at the point of just hanging up my cleats.gk

Hi gk,

So you are at the point of "hanging up your cleats."  What does that mean?  Where you gonna go?  Sorry to tell you but there is no hiding place.  Even if you have lost faith and claim to no longer believe in God, you still can not change one thing about your existence and experience in this life.  

Faith is a gift from God.  My best advice for you is to pray and beg God for more faith .  The way I see it, the only way we can have peace of mind in this world is to know in our hearts that God is in control and all things are as they should be at this time.   

Just trying to keep it real.

René

[GaryK]

OK if I rant back?

Been there and done that, GK.  

I didn't ask to believe.  There are many days I wish I didn't.  I understand what you are going through.  It's the whiny, self-serving bull as I lived through.  Nothing new.

In my travels, I've only encountered three possible 'true scenarios'.  1.  There is no God and all this is random.  2.  There is a God, and He is a dithering, finger-waggling, sadistic, weak *******.  3.  There is God and I am not Him.

Consider that a hug, Gary.  That's the best I can do.
DAVE

Rant away Dave.  I did.  Fair is fair.

I didn’t ask to believe either, a long time ago now it’s been, and like you nowadays I wonder why the stretching out this long.  What possible purpose could he have for a piddly whiner, self-serving complainer as I am?  Having said that, and as I said prior, I’m looking over option number 1, perhaps leaning toward #2, but, to put it in musical genre, I’ll take door #3.  If it’s good enough for that musical philosopher Mr. Buffett, it’s good enough for me.
  
And you’re right Dave, I’m not him either.  Good philosophy to seriously incorporate in my tiny mind and heart.  

And for those who’ve never listened to Buffett before the commercialism got him, get the A1A album and enjoy the finer genius of the man and his music.  Every song.  Especially “door #3”.

Ps: Thanks for the hug Dave.

gk

as with anything else it's usually to open our eyes to something we don't see and that can be different for each and every one of us.  
 He is still merciful and did not leave me or forsake me.......
there was a period of time when I had no light whatsoever and felt dead inside....that's a worse death than anything I've ever been through physically and I promise you it's tormenting and a different type of pain than physical pain......I'm so thankful He is merciful!!  

So, rant all you want, scream, kick the wall, whatever.......I know how you feel but, that too shall pass and His will WILL be done....

16  Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

He does NOT get offended when we have these kinds of questions and even when we get angry with
Grace

Thanks Grace.  I hope it is true that’s it to open an eye.  If anyone would know I need it, it’s him and him alone, and now’s the time.  Now’s the time.  I don’t feel the light or the love, or the mercy anymore.  I feel anger.  But that’s always the way it’s been, anger first, rationale to come after a bit of thinking.

If he’s offended, he’s offended.  I’m reminded of Job.  

16 looks good right now from where my boots are standing.  Believe I’ll study on that a while.

Thanks Grace.

gk

I certainly feel ya, GK, I don't for a moment judge you for how you feel as I go through these same spills. That being said, this may not seem true to you at this time, but it is true nonetheless: God loves that 16-month old baby far more than you do, and far more than its parents did. It doesn't sound plausible considering the circumstances, I know. When I am having similar thoughts & feelings as you are right now I try to reflect on what Paul said to the Romans:

"Why, what we now suffer I count as nothing in comparison with the glory which is soon to be manifested in us." (Rom 8:18)

Whatever's coming, beginning in the next age, has got to be amazingly, overwhelmingly, a-w-e-s-o-m-e if what we all suffer here now is "nothing in comparison"!      


Hope this helps. Godspeed,

Christopher  

I’m not a crying man Christopher, never have been.  

I cried 3 times yesterday:

1-watching the wife speak with shaking hands and heart over her husband

2-seeing the news of the baby

3-reading your words, here:  “God loves that 16-month old baby far more than you do,”

Bless those who live and die in the heat, sweat and stink of the ‘war’ in the middle east sorting out what seems to be un-sortable.  I cry for them too, just in heart tears.

Thanks Christopher.

gk

Psalms 51:6, Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.


Joel

Thanks Joel.  I’ll also be studying on Psalms 51:6.   And perhaps some wisdom will be revealed to my dim eyes and spirit.

gk

I believe there is a God because I cannot make myself believe there is not a God.   I refuse to be stupid…. Therefore, I am left with the conclusion that there is a sovereign God.

I’m with you John, neither can I myself do any of the same.

God and good I can easily understand.

God and evil?  I cannot as easily make the connection.  Apparently, from the scriptures, a knowledge of good and evil is a necessary requisite to have a mind like God.  If we were just told about evil, or just read about it in a book, apparently we wouldn't understand it.  Therefore, it is necessary for us to experience evil in order to truly understand it.  God is rubbing evil in our faces, both individually and mankind as a whole, for us to truly understand evil.
That is good enough for me right now.

John

Ditto on Craigs comments.  True perspectives.  And it should be good enough for me.  Apparently I’ve lost something to have it be that way, was at one time, now it’s not.  I don’t understand it myself, but clearly the wisdom is lacking.

Thanks John.

gk

Wow gk...I still think that......I can't get my head around God doing evil- yet I see it in scripture-He created evil...yes this story was heart breaking, but billions of children have had horrific lives and deaths since the dawn of time...so have all people.

 gk thank you for ranting and loving us to share that w/ us---many wouldn't have been so honest.

Neither can I gmilk, but honest it is, or at least I try to be, but also, and as pointed out, dumb, selfish, self-serving, part of the problem, that too.  Which I’ve never seen it from that perspective.  

Humble pie is like revenge, best served cold.

gk

Wow...gk, you put into words the thoughts that have swirled relentlessly back and forth through my head for a very long time. Doubts that drown the faith I so desperately want to have firmly planted in my soul, but seems to be hanging on by a waterlogged wisp of a root. Times when I am struggling hardest with my personal tests and trials, I have begged God not to let my lose all faith in Him.  So often, I feel I'm not even a hairs breadth away from bitter, cynical, utter disbelief.

I am going to pray that for you, for the family of that sweet baby and all who are affected.

  

Exactly.  Moxicarose, thank you.

gk

What we see is part of the problem because we don't see it correctly. No what we see is the baby being sucked up in a whirlwind and crushed into the ground. We don't see it right. Our perspective is all screwed up because we don't have "eyes to see" it like God does. We see everything through a cloud of crap.

I do think that the valley you believe you are in is not a valley at all, no Sir, it's a meat grinder. A flesh ripping, crushing, destroying meat grinder.

Perhaps you are right Stacy, not a valley at all, but it sure has felt like one for the longest time.   And you are certainly right about the flesh ripping crushing, destroying meat grinder……….and perhaps too, that is EXACTLY what is being done.  

From a ‘spiritual’ perspective, just maybe the ripping away of the flesh, however painful and disorienting it is, is what has been prescribed.  

gk

HE WILL MAKE IT RIGHT!

Thank you Kat.  Your faith inspires.   Your words are always uplifting and you always seem to place a special perspective on how to look at some of the grieving problems we face, together, all of us, in this world.  And you’re right, our perspective is so small and clouded.   Thank you for Ray’s words on the matter.   Your words aren’t wasted, and neither are Rays words.   For all to soak in, as much as for me.

gk

Hi gk,

So you are at the point of "hanging up your cleats."  What does that mean?  Where you gonna go?  Sorry to tell you but there is no hiding place.  Even if you have lost faith and claim to no longer believe in God, you still can not change one thing about your existence and experience in this life.    

Faith is a gift from God.  My best advice for you is to pray and beg God for more faith .  The way I see it, the only way we can have peace of mind in this world is to know in our hearts that God is in control and all things are as they should be at this time.  

Just trying to keep it real.  

René

Where am I going to go?   You’ve said it and already know there is nowhere to…..go.  So do I.  If I ‘hang up my cleats’, that’s exactly what he intends.  If he intends other, that’s exactly what I’ll do, and you and everyone else knows it.
  
Your words are right Rene, faith is a gift from God.  I once believed, and have said this before in another posting, ‘my’ faith had faulty wiring and from that I learned, and I believe Ray has said this in one and several of his papers that true ‘faith’ is from God.  We don’t generate it, he gives it.
  
Funny how you put this Rene, really, you just threw my perspective into a tow-head.   The complainer doing the complaining and whining is asking for ‘faith’ from his shrinking God and complaining that none is given.

Pretty small minded.  Pretty sad.

Thanks for the straight shootin words Rene.  No really.

gk




To all:  I'll leave with this and then you can lock-er up. 

I pray no offense to anyone, and I ask for none.  When I rant like this it takes some of the pressure away from the most obtrusive elements that cloud the heart.   I know each of you have felt the same.  I try not to get mouthy too much on this forum, or at all for that matter, but just try to sit back and read what each of YOU say on topics.   But sometimes things just get the better of me.  Hope you understand.

Ray and his teachings, Dennis, the forum moderators and this forum have been a god-send.   And Ray in his papers warned sometimes the truth is tough.  He was right. We all know that.


To make a lighter note, they say music calms the savage beast so last night I did something I haven’t done in a long while.   I went out to the barn, dusted off the amp, cranked her up, and whipped out the Les Paul.   I also whipped out a couple shots of whiskey.  A long time coming on that part and a long time to regret that part too, I'm sure.   But Dickey, me and the brothers flew around in the ‘blue sky’, bowed our heads to ‘elizabeth reed’ and ‘rambled’ over on 'poney boy' to see the skynyrd boys in ‘sweet home alabama’.  Ripped some good leads on ‘call me the breeze’ and gave a nod to the child and the husband with ‘freebird’.  

Music does calm the savage beast.  Even the horses were dancing and running…………mostly running.

Sorry about the messy of messes I’ve made here with this one folks. Keep it in your mind.


Here's another perspective I'm learning:   “The shoes don’t make the man”.  Clint Black

Peace to all.  Thanks to all who've felt the kindness.

gk  

[Dave in Tenn]

With Gary's encouragement, I'll locker 'er up. 

Wish I could have been in the barn with you.  Do good.