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[gmik]

OK, most ancient cultures believed their beginnings had gods/demons, magical things going on.  ex-India thought a giant turtle was holding up the earth; vikings, egyptians, mayas, incas, all felt their gods had to be appeased or they could cause all kinds of catastrophes...hope you get the idea: Even the old testament is filled w/ things that haven't happened in millenia(Joshua and the sun; Moses holding up his arms for battle to win, when he dropped his arms they started losing, things like that)

Revelations as taught by Hagee and his ilk believe 3 headed monsters are gonna rise up out of the sea, etc etc...lots of magical, crazy things going to happen.

But in the modern age- there is no magic- rarely miracles (not counting the dark ages when people did believe in witches and stuff).

magic--no magic--magic------I think that most babylonian christians believe the history of the world is this way.

I just don't believe the end of the age (or world) is going to be draped in magic.

Revelations is metaphor and parables I think.

Sorry for this post, but just talked to a friend who listens to Hagee and she thinks the weirdest things will happen at the end!

just blowing off steam here...(since my friend won't listen to reason)

[Deborah-Leigh]

 

Hi G

Pro 10:28  The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.

1Jn 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment.

[Dave in Tenn]

Pro 10:28  The hope of the righteous shall be gladness: but the expectation of the wicked shall perish.

Wow.

[Deborah-Leigh]

  ~ Yes....that's the real Good News ...! ~

[Drew]

There you go throwin' good stuff at us again Arc.  

[gmik]

 

[Akira329]

As much as I would like it to happen, I just don't think its going to go down this way.
OH!! Godzilla, WATCH OUT!!!! get em'!!!

[Duane]

I believe the accounts in the Old Testiment were actually true.
When God stopped the sun from setting for Joshua to complete the battle it is part of the three or four other occasions when God literally stopped time.  Combined. that is what accounts, to the MINUTE, for Leap Year every four years.
Why woold your second example not be true? If Biblically recorded that keeping Elijahs (?) arms lifted to God would make a noticeable difference then "assistants" kept the weakened arms raised, as stated.  There is no indication that this is a parable so I would take it literally.  If I am "dead wrong". I am giving the Bible the benefit of the doubt and God will have to except my well-meaning ignorance.   

[Grace]

Email reply from Ray (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1944.msg15935.html#msg15935):

Dear Dave:

More accurately, I have said: "The whole Bible is one giant parable."

By that I mean that virtually nothing is a literal teaching, but a spiritual teaching.  From the opening statements concerning "Let us make [be making, or making[ man in Our [spiritual] Image" to "And whosoever will [desires] let him take the water of [spiritual] life freely," the Church has not a clue as to what is being spoken of.  Hence, the doctrines of  Egypt have replaced the Truths of God's Word. The result is the teaching that God's first plan failed utterly, and plan B doesn't seem to be fairing much better. The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket for all eternity, and there is nothing that God can do to change it or correct it or save humanity. What a crock.  A Perfect God does not create eternal failings. All the evils of this modern world are exactly where God foreordained them to be.  All is heading for a perfect and flawless and marvelous eternal destiny. "The wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10).

God be with you,

Ray


Hello Mark,

Everything in the scriptures has a higher, spiritual meaning than what the literal events portray. That is not to imply that these events did not literally happen, but rather the lesson is found in their meaning not what literally happened.

Think of David & Goliath...one of the most well known tales in the Bible. What literally happened was David using a stone to kill a giant-like man. But the spiritual lesson was much higher...one of a young boy who trusted in the Lord even in a seemingly impossible situation.

The same way David was literally David and Goliath was literally Goliath is the same way Satan was literally Satan, Job was literally Job, God was literally God, etc. Job was a shadow/type of the trials and tribulations that all believers go through:

John 16:33  ...In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I [Jesus] have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22  Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom 5:3  ...we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience [as the saying is: 'the patience of Job']

Rev 2:10  Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

The one giant parable that Ray teaches from the scriptures is God making humanity into His image [Gen 1:26-27]. That what the entire Holy Scriptures testify of, just from many perspectives.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Samson
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Re: Parables
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 06:25:54 PM »   
Great Explanation Marques,

Sometimes people take things literally physically too far,  , but your response to this question is simple in explaining to all, even me, that even a child would be able to understand. Everything in the Old Testament(Hebrew-Aramaic) Scriptures Foreshadow greater Spiritual realities of things in the New Testament(Col. 2:17; Hebrews. 8:5; Hebrews. 10:1.).

                                    Thanks Samson.
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Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who believe on him. ITim.1
Kat
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Re: Parables
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2010, 06:54:32 PM »   

Hi Mark,

I gathered together what I could find where Ray explains about parables, so maybe seeing all this put together will help in understanding this better.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2297.0.html -----

"You shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword-utterly destroying it" (Deut. 13)

I know this isn't to be taken literally, but what exactly does it mean?

~Magen


Dear Magen:

No, it absolutely is to be taken literally. First the PHYSICAL, and then the SPIRITUAL (I Cor. 15:46).

First the PHYSICAL sword and death to the body, then the SPIRITUAL sword and death to the carnal mind (Rev. 19:15). The whole Bible is ONE GIANT PARABLE.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2834.0.html -----

I have said many many times the past year or two that WE MUST PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE WORDS!!

When people write in the venacular, it is ASSUMED that their readers have at least a minimum of worldly understanding. When Shakespeare wrote: "Life is but a poor actor who struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. A tale as told full of sound and fury signifying nothing." (or something like that)  He was not trying to cover every literaly aspect of human life. Only that in the end, little was accomplished by any one man's existence. (or at least his opinion)

Now then, did not James make the exact same statement as Shakespeare when he wrote: "For what is your life? It is even A VAPOUR, that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away"  (James 4:14). Yes, that is exactly what Shakespeare said, in fact, I would not doubt that he got his version from James.  But do James and Shakespeare LIE?  Is not life considerably MORE THAN A VAPOR?  It is a generalization in the form of a metaphor to show us a great and grand spiritual truth. And that is precisely what I am doing when I state that "The Bible is One Giant PARABLE."  Do you think that I gave no thought at all to what I was saying before shouting that phraise over the worldwide web?

A parable is a physical story which points to a SPIRITUAL TRUTH.  As God creates "A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH," just what is there about this present heaven and earth that will "LITERALLY" last eternally?  Besides I did not say that "The Bible is One Giant FICTION," now did I?  No, I said that the Bible is one giant PARABLE.  And the contents of a parable (not the Bible, but a PARABLE, are fictitious. ALL of the "literal" history, etc., in the Bible is NOT THE REAL THING. It is merely the ways and means TO THE REAL THING, which is Spiritual. "First that which is natural; and AFTERWARD that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:46).


You are forgetting one thing, "The WORDS [as in 'I go to prepare a PLACE...'] that I speak unto you, THEY ARE SPIRIT...." Oops.


"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a BEAST rise up out of the sea, having SEVEN HEADS and TEN HORNS, and upon his horns TEN CROWNS, and upon his beads the NAME OF BLASPHEMY...like unto a LEOPARD, and his feet were as the feet of a BEAR, and his mouth as the mouth of a LION...."

And you say this is "LITERAL," do you? What beast is there that can first of all "blaspheme?" Have SEVEN HEAD?" With TEN HORNS?"  Is a cross between a LEOPARD, BEAR and a LION? And it LIVES IN THE  O-C-E-A-N?  "Literal?"  Am I going to fast for you?


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2322.0.html -------

There are many lessons that can be gleened from the parables, but as I covered in one

of our Bible Conferences, they are also all the same in certain ways.

The parable of the wheat and the tares shows us two aspects of humanity. Those who

have value and those who are not useful.  This is also the case with the dragnet. Good

fish and bad fish--keep the good throw away the bad. Etc.

And so the parables represent the good and the bad. Sometimes they emphasize the good

and sometimes they emphasize the bad, sometimes they just mention both, and sometimes there

is only one thing mentioned that REPRESENTS BOTH. This is the case with the leaven: if good,

it will leaven a whole lump to be used for something very holy and good as in Lev. 23:17, but it

can also be bad leaven used to leaven a whole lump for bad as in I Cor. 5:6.  


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7582.0.html --------

In Matthew 13:36-42 and 49-50 we find Jesus EXPLAINING his parables.
Does this mean they're meant to be taken literally?
 

Dear Readers:  First:  Is this a parable?
 
"And He [Jesus] spake many things unto them in PARABLES, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow" (Matt. 13:3).
 
"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in PARABLES?"
(Matt. 13:10).

"Therefore speak I to them in PARABLES" (Matt. 13:13).

"Hear ye therefore the PARABLE of the sower" (Matt. 13:18).

Yep, I'd say we have pretty good proof here that this story in Matthew was a PARABLE.
Next:  Is it to be taken literally?  I'm thinking that what you mean by that is, are we to take Christ's explanation of the parable literally?  Is that what you mean?  Surely you understand that when we read back in verses 3 and 4: "And He spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow.  And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up," that this is not literally what Jesus was teaching, or He would not have had to explain it to His disciples at all. They would have just taken a "sower" to mean a literal farmer or gardener who when out to sow literal seed in the field.
 
So then let's ask if Jesus' explanation of His parable is to be taken "literally?"  And the answer I given in the past is "NO."  No, neither the parable nor the explanation of the parable is to be taken literally.  Notice there items in Christ's explanation:
 
"the word of the kingdom"--what's that?  What is "the word of the kingdom," and is it a "literal" word?
 
"then comes the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart"--Who is this wicked one?  How does he catch away something sown in the heart?  And agin, just what IS this word of the kingdom sown in theheart which some wicked one can snatch away?  This is all symbolic of something differnt from these "literal" words of explanation.
 
Likewise the rest of the explanation is also all symbolic and spiritual in meaning that does not represent the literal words and phrases that Jesus used at all. You can check all of the parables which Jesus explained, and you will find that Jesus explained His parables with more words and symbols that have a spiritual rather than a literal meaning.


http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html ---------------------

Of course, any who would contend that much of what is written in the Scriptures is figurative rather than literal language will be accused of "spiritualizing away" the Scriptures. In reality, by not understanding spiritual things, it is they, the accusers, who are guilty of MATERIALIZING AWAY the Scriptures!

It is the physical that passes away. Only the Spiritual is eternal. And so it is impossible to spiritualize "away" anything, because once something is spiritual it is eternal and never goes away.

And so the grand teaching and spiritual understanding of such things as the "lake of fire" are literalized and materialized down to something ghastly and horrible rather than something marvelous and glorious.

                                    PARABLES ARE SPIRITUAL

What were those parables that Jesus taught? A parable is a story that contains in figurative or symbolic language a higher moral or spiritual truth. Parables are HIGHER, SPIRITUAL, GLORIOUS teachings of ETERNAL things. Literally they are of little consequence; spiritually they are of enormous consequence. But without knowing what the symbols represent in a parable, no one could ever understand the higher meaning. Therefore the multitudes of people did not understand the teaching of Jesus Christ, because He did not explain the meaning of the symbols to the masses, only to His disciples in private.

Many people have tried to tell me that parables are to be taken literally. What they don’t realize is that they are talking about square circles. The very reason a parable is called a parable is so that we will know for sure that whatever is contained in the parable IS NOT LITERAL. Parables require spiritual understanding. Some require little (albeit some) spiritual understanding. Example: The Parable of a Beam in One’s Eye. There are few believers who would not understand the meaning of this parable, although they might not practice its teaching. Others such as The Parable of the Prodigal Son requires much more spiritual understanding, as there are many more spiritual truths contained in this story. And probably the most complex of all parables is the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. (See my fifty-page explanation of this parable on this site).
-----------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Hope this helps in some way,
Grace

[Foxx]

As much as I would like it to happen, I just don't think its going to go down this way.
OH!! Godzilla, WATCH OUT!!!! get em'!!!

This, lol.

That's all I have to say on this topic.

[gmik]

Wow.....thanks all so much!!!   Ray has got it down doesnt' he?

This has helped me alot!

[cjwood]

      Ray has got it down doesnt' he?

he does indeed gmik!

claudia

[gmik]

Hi Claudia....wouldn't a Nashville conference be wonderful again???

[cjwood]

...wouldn't a Nashville conference be wonderful again???

oh yes, yes, yes indeed.  that would be so awesome, because it would mean ray was feeling well enough and was ready for all the physical, mental, and spiritual strength that is needed to put a conference on.  and then to think that he would be presenting a topic/subject he felt led by the Spirit of God to study and research, is exciting just to think about.  but, ray is in the good hands of his Father and we at bt and the forum continually learn from that awesome relationship, conference or non. 

claudia

[gmik]

That would be better than anything to have Ray healthy and fit as a fiddle again!!!  U R right about that!!!  _sigh-

 
gena

[daywalker]

As much as I would like it to happen, I just don't think its going to go down this way.
OH!! Godzilla, WATCH OUT!!!! get em'!!!

I'm with ya, man! Thank God for science fiction movies to help appease us!