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The Cross
Joel:
Greetings Randy,
Jesus came to reconcile us to God, not to pronounce more than death on humanity.
Seems to me we are born on this earth and many don't have it so good, we go through trials and tribulations, are sick and diseased. We are full of pains and torments, and even the Church is down on us, and would cast a spell upon us like some kind of voodoo gods, in order to get us to conform to their views of God.
Paul said this;
Colossians 1:20 (KJV) And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Colossians 1:20 (LB) It was through what his Son did that God cleared a path for everything to come to him- all things in heaven and on the earth- for Christ's death on the cross has made peace with God for ALL by his blood.
Not everyone is able to see the simplicity that is in Christ, that Ray is so apt at teaching.
Paul said; 2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, least by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Joel
daywalker:
--- Quote from: ranrae on May 30, 2011, 03:15:02 PM ---Hi Everyone,
I am a long time reader (5 years) of Ray's articles, but just now decided to join the forum. I have a question that is puzzling me. My friend and I have been having an email discussion about Christ and punishment. He says that," if there is no punishment in Hell for our sins, then Christ died on the cross for nothing". Could someone give me the best example or explanation for him? I am having a hard time conveying my thoughts to him.
In Peace And Love
Randy
--- End quote ---
My response would be: IF there IS punishment in Hell for our sins, then what the heck did Christ die for? If all we need to do to be saved from Hell is believe in God and say sorry for our sins, then Christ's sacrifice was pointless.
Daywalker 8)
gmik:
welcome Randy!!
Extol:
Hi Randy,
You have gotten some good responses so far. I think Kat hit the nail on the head when she said that your friend is thinking "hell=judgment/punishment". That's what Christians have been trained to think; they don't consider that there is an alternative option of temporary judgment. It's all or nothing. Any time they read "judgment", "punishment", or "death", hell is probably what comes to mind.
And as Daywalker hinted (and Ray has said this many times), your friend has it backwards. The question should be: "If there IS everlasting punishment, then why did Christ have to die?" Of course, Christians will reply that Christ's love is so great that He would have died to save even one man, never mind the fact that He was commissioned to be the Saviour of the world (1 John 4:14).
Here are some Scriptures listing some of the things we are saved from:
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of SIN and DEATH." (Rom. 8:2)
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call His name JESUS: for he shall save His people from their SINS" (Matt. 1:21)
"And He shall redeem [save] Israel from all his INIQUITIES [Heb. 'evil/SIN']"(Psalm 130:8)
"Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem [save] us from all INIQUITY [Gk: 'evil/SIN]" (Titus 2:14)
"Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of Thy name: and deliver us [deliver means 'save'], and purge away our SINS, for Thy name's sake" (Psa. 79:9)
"But God will redeem ['rescue/save] my soul from the power of the GRAVE [Heb: 'sheol--hades, the state of the dead']" (Psalm 49:15)
"Who delivered us from so great a DEATH, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that He will yet deliver us" (II Cor. 1:10)
"I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from DEATH: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction..." (Hosea 13:14).
Duane:
Ranray...I have run into this often, where people say "if there is no punishment of hell for sinners, then why did Jesus die on the cross"? I have found that many Christians are scared the the sinners of the world are going to "get away with living their lives as they please and then die with no punishment" and it seems to make them mad because they have tried to live a better life and therefore deserve heaven or a better reward.
this kind of thinking will be cleansed away in the Lake of Fire. That reasoning is essentially saying that
they are afraid "God won't give the sinner as just of a punishment as they would" if they were in charge.
Doesn't that sound vindictive--showing a lack of trust in God's ability to be JUST?
P.S. I, like you, ran into assundry conflcts of this B-T reading and the teaching of "the Church of Babylon"
BUT just keep reading and reading and voila! God will have it all fall together into a cohesive whole. ;)
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