Hi onelovedread,
If we are roused in incorruption and we put on immmortality to wear the image of celestial beings, is it not possible that we will have access to the celestials in a more "advanced" manner than we do now in the flesh. Is it therefore not possible that we may not be "bound" to the earth? Any thoughts?
Well I think there was clearly a big (actually huge) difference in what Jesus Christ was and His capabities from while in the flesh and after His resurection. He appeared and disappeared at will and seemed to be able to go wherever He wanted to in an instant. I am thinking that the Elect will also share in those benefits when they have been resurrected to spiritual bodies.
Another thing is that Moses wanted to see the glory of God and was told; "For there no man can see Me and live." So will the flesh and blood people raised back up and put on earth be able to actually see the glorified bodies of Christ and the elect? I know Jesus Christ appeared to flesh and blood people as a flesh and blood person. Maybe it will be different then, if the elect are always present on earth or will that presents always be visible?
This is a subject that holds a lot of interest and many questions. There are quite a few places that Ray mentions bits and pieces about this throught his articles, here are a few that I found.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html ---------------------------------
No, Jesus does not live far far away on the other side of the universe in a place called heaven. Heaven is not a place; heaven is the realm of spirit. Jesus does not sleep in heaven. Jesus does not live in a physical heaven. Jesus will not live in a physical body full of holes, for the rest of eternity either. It is impossible to even think about these important issues of life with the mentality of Christian doctrines. Jesus Christ is “spirit”: “Now the Lord is that SPIRIT…” (II Cor. 3:17).
http://bible-truths.com/email4.htm ---------------------------------------
Nimrod did not think that he could really build a tower that would go to heaven, but rather to reach into the heavens as a tall tree or mountain.
Seeing that Jesus said while He was on this earth, that He was also at the same time, IN HEAVEN, ought to dispel and fanciful idea that the Heaven of God's Throne is in outer space on some huge galactic rock.
God's heaven is a higher spiritual realm of life and existence, not a geographical location in outer space.
http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html ------------------------------------
However, there is a much deeper meaning to this "assembling" that few have ever seen. I never saw it myself until I read a paper by J. Preston Eby, entitled: "FORSAKE NOT THE ASSEMBLING."
I will quote an excerpt or two from his paper:
v
It is a meeting in a higher realm, on a higher plane, in the high places of the Spirit, and in the heights of Truth. It is a gathering together in a dimension above. It indicates an assembling IN THE SPIRIT…"
(All Caps belong to Mr. Eby).
This Greek word episunagoge is used only one other time in Scripture, and that is in II Thes. 2:1:
"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together [Gk: episunagoge] unto Him."
In Hebrews 10 we are admonished to "assemble" in an high meeting, a meeting in the SPIRIT! In II Thes. 2 this meeting in the Spirit will become a literal meeting with our Lord.
http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html -----------------------------------------
"And thou Capernaum, which art exalted to HEAVEN, shall be thrust down to hell [hades/death/the grave]" (Luke 10:15).
Sinful Capernaum was never exalted to GOD’S heaven, but to their OWN HEAVEN, the heaven of their own minds. Their city never left the surface of the earth, but IN THEIR MINDS they thought they had reached "heaven." Now then, with this in mind, let us move ahead two verses and see how all these Scriptures tie in and harmonize together. Verse 17:
"And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through your name. And he said unto them, [I know] I BEHELD Satan as lightning fall from heaven [when and as it was happening through the commands of His disciples]."
Christ’s disciples were filled with JOY over the power that Jesus had given them so that even spirits were subject to them. Jesus had just said that He would thrust Capernaum down from THEIR HEAVEN, their high place in their own mind. Next the disciples report back that they were able to cast down spirits (demons) from men’s minds, from their own heavens. They were excited to tell Jesus what they had done. They had the power to cast down DEMONS from men’s heavens, from out of their MINDS. And Jesus answered them back by saying, YES, I KNOW, I BEHELD Satan (prince of the devils and demons), fall from the heaven of men’s minds while you were doing it! And then even Jesus "rejoiced" (Verse 21).
God has a heaven. It is a SPIRIT REALM. It is where God lives and has His Being. Men too have a heaven. It is likewise, the REALM where they live and have their being—they spiritually live in their own minds, their own heavens.
Notice Prov. 23:7, "For as he THINKS in his heart, SO IS HE." The ‘heart’ is the innermost seat of our deepest emotions, but it is accessed through the MIND. It is what one thinks that determines what one is. When the king of Babylon THOUGHT that he had ascended into heaven in his mind, then that is where HE WAS, "so IS he." But ... BUT, it was man’s heaven and not God’s. No ‘man,’ no ‘carnal man’ has ever ascended into God’s heaven of spirit,
"And NO MAN has ascended up to heaven [God’s heaven], but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man WHICH IS IN HEAVEN [right at the very time He was speaking these words]" (John 3:13).
Jesus could live "on earth" and "in heaven" at the same time! But carnal men live in the heaven of their minds all the time. Man’s heaven is a place of spiritual delusion; whereas God’s heaven is a place of spiritual enlightenment.
"And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the EARTH [of man] and the HEAVEN [of man] fled away; and there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM… And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a NEW heaven and a NEW earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." (Rev. 20:11, 16 & 21:1).
It would be mind-boggling enough to think that the entire UNIVERSE could "flee away," but it would be quite another to then suggest that, "there was found NO PLACE FOR THEM." That would be absurd if taken literally. ALL THESE THINGS ARE SPIRITUAL! In the white throne judgment there will be no more a place for the flesh, for the carnal mind, for man’s heaven. There will truly be no place found for them. They will be annihilated in God’s "CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29 & I Cor. 3:15)!
God will give man a new earth and a new heaven, and as for the great sea of carnal, God-defying humanity, "…and there was NO MORE SEA."
http://bible-truths.com/lake13.html -------------------------------------
There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that ‘fish’ do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here—these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13).
v
Next notice that:
"And when the dragon saw that he was cast into the earth , he persecuted the WOMAN [the Church] which brought forth the man child [the manifest sons of God]" (Rev. 12:13).
Where is the Church? Does she dwell in the spiritual realms of heaven? No. Is she located in the sea? No. She dwells in the earth. She is higher than the sea, but lower than heaven; she dwells in the earth. These are the three realms spoken of in Revelation. If we can’t get our thinking above the symbols themselves, we will never ever understand the book of Revelation.
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm ------------------------------------------------
CONVERSATION: This one is a bit confusing to say the least. There are three different Greek words used for this word. Two are nearly synonymous, but the third is totally different. [1] "For ye have heard of my
conversation [Gk: 'behavior, Young's, Concordant; 'manner of life,' Rotherham's, New American] in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it" (Gal. 1:13). This was the manner or behavior Paul had before conversion, before his change. [2] "...but by the grace of God, we have had our
conversation [Gk: 'we behaved ourselves,' Concordant, New American, Rotherham's, Young's etc.] in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward" (II Cor. 1:12). Before Paul's conversion he "wasted" the church, but now he is "behaving" himself in a godly manner and is an example to all. [3] "For our
conversation [Gk: 'citizenship,' Rotherham's Young's, New American] is in heaven [the heavens]; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Phil. 3:20). Now that Paul has changed his life, his realm of citizenship is in the heavens "from whence" his Saviour will bring this reward to Paul and all the Elect at the resurrection.
http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm --------------------------------------------------
God intends for ALL OF HIS CHILDREN to live ETERNALLY WITH HIM IN GLORY. When and how is this accomplished according to the Scriptures?
It is true that ALL WILL BE SAVED (I Tim. 2:4 and 4:10 and a hundred other verses like this). However, NOT ALL are saved at the same time. Only those in the FIRST RESURRECTION will inherit the Kingdom of God on earth to reign with Christ. ONLY the "very ELECT." ONLY those who "OVERCOME." ONLY the "manifested SONS OF GOD."
Eternity in heaven is NOT the "REWARD" of the saved. EVERYONE will eventually be in the realm of heaven with God for eternity. But ONLY those who are accounted worthy to be in the first resurrection will receive a SPECIAL MARVELOUS GLORIOUS REWARD. And what is that glorious reward: "EONIAN [AGE-ABIDING] LIFE, in the KINGDOM OF GOD, ruling and reigning with Christ's for "aions of the aions" until ALL in the heavens and ALL in the earth, and ALL under the earth [the deceased] are ALSO BROUGHT IN GOD'S FAMILY! It is a special reward to occurs AGES before the rest of humanity receive salvation. This reward is all through the New Testament, but few indeed, seem to see it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat