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In need of some clarification.
JohnMichael:
Interesting note on the lazze faire attitude:
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm [G5513], and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
G5513
χλιαρός
chliaros
khlee-ar-os'
From χλίω chliō (to warm); tepid: - lukewarm.
Tepid: characterized by a lack of force or enthusiasm
Scriptural Match:
Pro 18:9 He also that is slothful [H7503] in his work is brother to him that is a great waster.
H7503
רפה
râphâh
raw-faw'
A primitive root; to slacken (in many applications, literally or figuratively): - abate, cease, consume, draw [toward evening], fail, (be) faint, be (wax) feeble, forsake, idle, leave, let alone (go, down), (be) slack, stay, be still, be slothful, (be) weak (-en). See H7495.
Pro 10:4 He becometh poor that dealeth with a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
gmik:
Isn't that a metaphor? Again, he wasn't talking to us! (I don't believe)
Zander, John, and I are certainly not speaking about laissez faire. I can read Zander's pain in his post. It is all of God anyway what sins he helps us overcome and the ones he doesn't.
Who made Paul the way He was? God did. Paul was a BULL - not many like him since either. Can't compare ourselves. but even he said in Rom 7:24..Oh wretched man that I am.
Lets not hi -jack Zander's thread and his plea for understanding.,
Lukewarm doesn';t apply to most anyone on this forum....we have all given up a great deal---family, friends, churches, fellowships, (potlucks :D), and so on.
also, we are all at different points on our journey....what excites the newbie may not excite someone who has been around this for years...doesn't mean we are lukewarm.
imho
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: daywalker on June 08, 2011, 10:53:44 AM ---
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on June 07, 2011, 08:22:37 PM ---
Further, as you know, there is no free will. We do not decide which resurrection we are in. God has already decided, before He created the world, who was going to be in the 1st Resurrection. It is a total futile exercise to wish to be in the 1st Resurrection. You either will be, or you will not be. The Potter has already decided.
John
--- End quote ---
Hey John,
I would have to respectfully disagree with your above highlighted statement. Yes, it is true that "all is of God" and only God knows who are His, but I would hardly accuse our Apostle Paul of practicing this "total futile exercise":
Phillippians 3:8-11:
Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith--that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
I don't think anyone here would argue that Paul is referring to the first resurrection (i.e. the resurrection of the just). Paul 'gave it his all' every single day of his apostleship wanting, striving, doing all the he could so that "by any means possible" he could "attain" (achieve, gain) a spot in the first resurrection. Personally, I cannot imagine knowing all that I now know and yet NOT "wanting" to be in the first resurrection and be one of the many "saviors" on Mt. Zion (Obadiah 1:21)!
Daywalker 8)
--- End quote ---
Hi Daywalker,
No need to be respectful. ;D ;D ;D
Everything Paul was or ever will be, all came from God. Nothing came from Paul.
Paul was an arrogant little snotty religious fanatic who believed strongly in the Law of Moses. He thought he was good by the religious things he did. He was so good that he also thought he would be in the resurrection of the just, before his conversion.
Paul consented to the murder of Stephen, and watched over the personal effects of the murderers, and watched them murder Stephen. Paul persecuted the Church of God. He killed, tortured, and imprisoned followers of Jesus, both men and women.
When Jesus decided enough was enough, He knocked Paul on his rear end and converted him, in a few seconds. Paul had nothing to say about it. Paul didn't get to vote on whether he wanted to follow Jesus or not.
Jesus made Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles. Paul didn't get a vote. The above scripture you quote also came from God. Paul's zeal to obtain the 1st resurrection also came from God. Paul didn't work it up himself. As Paul himself knew, and as he was led to write, both the will and the to do came from God.
So when I used the word "futile", it was with Paul in mind. If Paul brought about everything that he did, on his own, then I guess it would also be possible for us to decide we will be in the 1st resurrection, and to follow God's ways.
God knows who His Elect are. He selects them. And He brings about their conversion now, by His judgments by fire. Spiritual Fire is a good thing. Our God is a consuming Fire. He is the Vine; we are the fruit. It is all from God. Jesus is Savior, not us. Everything we are or ever hope to be, all comes from Him.
John
JohnMichael:
--- Quote from: gmik on June 08, 2011, 12:28:13 PM ---Isn't that a metaphor? Again, he wasn't talking to us! (I don't believe)
--- End quote ---
He was addressing the 7 churches, so He was talking to us.
Kat:
Hi onelovedread,
--- Quote ---Does the phrase "Judgment is now on the House of God", apply to the House of Israel, as Peter (1 Peter 4:17) was writing these words to mostly Jews, or does it mean the Church or Paul's disciples(to whom he never used this dsignation)?
--- End quote ---
This might help with your question.
http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html ---------------
In Ezekiel 14:7 we read:
"For every one of the house of Israel [WE {Gentiles} are now the circumcision of God, Phil. 3:3. WE {Gentile believers} are the true Jew, Romans 2:28-29. WE {Gentiles & a remnant of racial Israel} are the spiritual Israel of God, Gal. 6:16] or of the stranger that sojourns in Israel, which separates himself from Me, and sets up HIS IDOLS IN HIS HEART…"
http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm -------------------------
"For the time is come that judgment must begin [this began two thousand years ago] at the House of God..." (I Pet. 4:17).
The JUDGMENT, COUNCIL, GEHENNA, AND PRISON (Matt. 5) of Christ's Sermon on the Mount are for US; Christ's disciples; those chosen; the faithful; the overcomers; the few; the elect. And these judgments are NOW in each generation of the chosen few throughout this Church age.
The Gospels were written for us. The judgments they contain are for us. Jesus says unto us, that we are in danger of judgment, council, gehenna fire, and prison, if WE do not spiritually obey from the heart even the least of Christ's commandments.
v
v
Yes, of course, the whole world of unbelievers and ungodly will experience God's Divine consuming fire-His Gehenna fire, but not before it has first purged all of His Elect, the called and Chosen of the House of God. Which judgment the "House of God" has been experiencing now for 2000 years.
These instructions are decidedly not written for the "Many [who] will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, ...in Thy name done many wonderful works?... I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me..." (Matt. 7:22-23).
Only the living experience "Gehenna fire." And during this life, It is rather the living chosen elect of Jesus Christ who go through "Gehenna fire."
"If you be reproached [insulted] for the name of Christ, happy are you... yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf, for the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God..." (I Pet. 4:14, 16-17).
We must all receive reproaches from men, but judgment from God. And God purges us from the offenses of our carnal mind by "His Divine consuming FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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