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Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
Stacey:
--- Quote ---Grape x
PS. I may be wrong; but I don’t think so.
--- End quote ---
I don't think so either. Man, that's good stuff there Grape! I understood it clearly and can appreciate your understanding, thanks bro :)
grapehound:
Thanks for the heads up, Stacey! :)
Kat:
I had been thinking much as you do Grape. But with Ray's last Bible study I had to stop and think, Ray must be seeing something, so I want to rethink my view on this. So Jesus says you have not seen the Father's shape/form.
John 5:37 And He sending Me, the Father Himself, has borne witness of Me. Neither have you heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape.
Jesus is speaking to the Jews that persecuted Him, unbelievers. Back in chapter 3 Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus about those that will be born into the kingdom, believers.
John 3:8 The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice, but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
There seems to be a distinction here, unbelievers that do not have the Spirit indwelling and cannot hear His voice or 'see' Him, but believer do.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
v. 17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.
1John 3:6 Everyone who abides in Him does not sin. Everyone who sins has not seen Him nor known Him.
Only true believers can know/see/hear God. Now it is by the Comforter within that we are preceiving and hearing and seeing, but not yet do we fully comprehend/see while in this flesh.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then faceG4383 to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall fully know even as I also am fully known.
G4383 prosōpon - face; the front (as being towards view), that is, the countenance, aspect, appearance, surface; by implication presence, person: - (outward) appearance, X before, countenance, face, fashion, (men’s) person, presence.
I think what we are trying to figure out would be is spirit ever visible? Well it makes me think of the story about Elisha and how God revealed all the spirit horses and chariots of fire to his servant.
2Kings 6:15 And the servant of the man of God arose early and went out. And, behold, an army surrounded the city, and horses and chariots. And his servant said to him, Alas, my master! What shall we do?
v. 16 And he answered, Do not fear, for those with us are more than those with them.
v. 17 And Elisha prayed and said, I pray You, Jehovah, open his eyes so that he may see. And Jehovah opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
The way I am thinking now is that maybe because of this flesh we hear/see/know the Spirit within and when the Elect are born into the kingdom they become spirit beings, "that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). We will know God, He will be revealed and if that form is Jesus the Christ then what more can we ask...
1John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be. But we know that when He shall be revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
Whatever the Father is we will have a connection with Him that Jesus Christ does, we will be 'one' and that will satisfy every need that we might have to know the Father.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Deborah-Leigh:
Astute recognition for Truth and a gift of clarity! Thank you Grape.
In thinking that Father or that Jesus, is outside, we create separatation between us and our Creator.
That God is with us, in us and approaches us from "within" ~ AMEN ~ :)
Kat, I can see how you are thinking. That might not mean I agree with you or need to follow you. I can see your thinking which is how you think that may give me food for thought and inspire me to evolve in my personal association in relationship to Christ in me who is unrestricted, unlimited and intimately personal.
Arc
grapehound:
Thank you Arc for your understanding.
Kat. I appreciate your candour, but I'm having some difficulty understanding the point you are making. I in no way approach the scholarship of Ray in these matters. Could you please help me here, by being a little more succinct? I always value your input.
Every blessing,
Grape
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