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[John from Kentucky]

Dave & Kat,

Most interesting comments.  This subject is at the current limits of scriptural understanding.  It is what Ray is looking into.  Who or what is the Father and Jesus?  How do they intersect?  How are they One God?  Endlessly fascinating.  Where no man has gone before (except maybe Jesus).

John

[Deborah-Leigh]

Here is a UTube clip about a boy who "sees" the answer....might this also be how we are each to see God within. We are the temple of God and within each one of us is potential unique to human race DNA and human being consciousness.

Today the USA launched its final space shuttle, Atlantis. The final frontier might not be physical space, but inner and outer space where image and God, converge.

Jesus said He and Father were one. Why can't we.......

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbASOcqc1Ss

Arc

[grapehound]

Thank you so much, Arc, for that astounding link.
I'm inclined to your sentiments about the nature of consciousness.
I don't think we've even scratched the surface.

Grape x

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Grape

If we knew how to switch on the dormant DNA...we'd fly! Jesus is the Light, and The Word of God, is a Science fact of GREAT meaning...~


Only 10% of our DNA is being used for building proteins. It is this subset of DNA that is of interest to western researchers and is being examined and categorized. The other 90% are considered “junk DNA.” The Russian researchers, however, convinced that nature was not dumb, joined linguists and geneticists in a venture to explore those 90% of “junk DNA.” Their results, findings and conclusions are simply revolutionary! According to them, our DNA is not only responsible for the construction of our body but also serves as data storage and in communication. The Russian linguists found that the genetic code, especially in the apparently useless 90%, follows the same rules as all our human languages. To this end they compared the rules of syntax (the way in which words are put together to form phrases and sentences), semantics (the study of meaning in language forms) and the basic rules of grammar.

http://quantumpranx.wordpress.com/dna-can-be-influenced-and-reprogrammed-by-words-and-frequencies/

Arc

[grapehound]

Wow Arc, that's quite a link.
What an absorbing education!
Thank you so much.

Grape x

[grapehound]

To borrow a Craig expression, I think science and spirituality are “eating the same banana from opposite ends.”

Can’t wait till they meet in the middle.
The 'kiss' we’ve all been waiting for!

Grape

[Deborah-Leigh]

I couldn't have said it better!

Thank you Grape and well said Dave!

Arc

[grapehound]

Hi Guys!

Just thinking of the origins of this site and the blessings we have been gifted with through Ray and Dennis; and thanks to this ministry and the debunking of religious superstition and myth,
I for one sleep a lot better, understanding through Ray, the awesome Love that Our Beautiful Father has toward all of His creation.

The living miracle that we call Ray, with a PSA that would kill a Blue Whale, continues to turn some very significant corners.
Neither is he afraid of including scientific back up for his considered arguments; not an association to be challenged 'out of hand'; he's no intellectual lightweight.

To date, I have not come across anyone in his league, of properly dividing the Logos. He is one, Gutsy Dude.

Thank you Ray for your love for us all, through the urgings of Our Father and for keeping this wonderful facility alive and in His Truth.

All of His Richest Blessings be upon you.

Grape x

PS. Thank you Marques, for the initiation of this thread. Good call Bro'.

[Dave in Tenn]

To borrow a Dave in Tenn expression, I think science and spirituality are “eating the same banana from opposite ends.”

Can’t wait till they meet in the middle.
The 'kiss' we’ve all been waiting for!

Grape

I don't recall having said that.  I do think we have to watch out for false science with as much tenacity as we watch out for false spirituality, especially when they 'invent' one another or imitate one another or blend into one another chomping on a rotten banana. 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Re: Does God have 'Free Will'?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2011, 06:57:40 AM » 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Folks I'm going to lock this thread now because it is just one of those threads that there is no correct answer and how can we come to an agreement on that?  Half fall in to the camp John was espousing and half with what Marques was pointing out.  I personally think they are both right and I may someday get into politics .  One may be right and one wrong or neither right or they both are right and they are just eating the same banana from opposite ends.  The problem here is we are trying to assign human reasoning to God and that does not work.  How can we, using our puny human terms and reasoning, try to define Gods sovereignty, reasoning and actions?

I appreciate the thread staying civil and respectful to each other.  This is one of those discussions that we can agree to disagree on and discuss it one day while playing a harp on a cloud somewhere.

Craig

[Deborah-Leigh]

Transcripts of Ray's Audio's and More Teachings / Re: Mobile Conference 2007 ~ HOW WE GOT THE BIBLE

SCIENCE AND THE MYSTERIES OF GOD

There are so many magical things out there in science.  It all goes down to these little things that you can’t see that we call atoms.  But then the atom is made of other things.  They are made of quartz and things.  Then they’ve got alpha and beta quartz.  So it just keeps going on and on.

Well it says that God created everything, out of that which does not appear.  Yet when we look, the closer we go… Only now can science do that, it couldn’t do that 100 or 200 years ago, now they can. 

It’s made out of stuff that once you take the atom apart it’s no longer solid material.  Now it’s energy and has no specific shape and it starts to loose it’s weight.  How much does a light ray weight?
 
Well there is another problem.  Light is a beam, a particle beam and light is a wave.  But it can’t be both, it’s got to be either a beam or a wave.  Light is both.  Scientist can’t figure it out, how can it be both?  It just is, light is both.  But it can’t be both, but it is.  I mean there is a lot of mysteries out here. 

The point is, God is behind it and God made it.  He didn’t just make it though, it seems apparent now that He put wisdom into the material itself.  Scientist are starting to see that the material itself contains it’s own wisdom.  I didn’t say a brain.  It doesn’t exactly have a brain, it has built in wisdom.  It knows what to do under certain circumstances. 

You say, ‘no it just reacts to laws.’  No, that’s what scientist always thought.  They are seeing now that it’s way too complicated.  What matter does or is capable of accomplishing when it is heated or cooled and interchanges and all that, is way beyond a law.  It has it’s own wisdom built in. 

It’s like the DNA molecule that tells a fetus what color eyes and hair and male or female.  All that information was built into the DNA.  The DNA molecule is the most crammed packed piece of intelligent information in the universe.  No where in science or in the heavens or stars or mountains or rocks or volcanoes or anywhere is there so much knowledge and information crammed together, as in a DNA molecule.  It is so incredible, scientist look at it and it almost scares them.  They don’t know what they are seeing, it’s like something out of a science fiction movie.  It’s just unbelievable.  They thought it was rather simplistic, each one of those simplistic little motions are made up of a million computers.  It’s like where does it end?
 
Some people are kind of afraid of science.  But I’m telling you I’m just becoming more and more convinced, you know, bring it on, because it fits.......................... 

You say, ‘well we thought that God created the heavens and the earth 6000 years ago.  Now you are telling us it’s more like 6 billion.  My faith is crumbling.’  No, I’m going to build some of that faith back up.  You are going to see this first chapter of Genesis falls right in line with what scientists are now seeing.  It does not fall in line with what theologians have said for 2000 years.  It does not.  But it does fall in line with true science, it absolutely does. 

[Dave in Tenn]

You can mix me up with Craig any time, but I don't know if Craig would appreciate the reverse.  

Last comment.

These days, I can watch a science program or read an article and think on the 'whatsoever things are beautiful' apects of it--Arcturus' link a case in point.  I still have to recognze that in all the branches of science there are not only new breakthroughs, but competing and sometimes contradictory theories...though not all, by a long shot.  There are differences in thinking between scientists in cosmology, in general physics , in theoretical physics, in quantum mechanics, and in every active branch.  They're not done yet...a point made by Grapehound.  I'm not casting my lot 'by faith' with any of them, though it's 'fun' and even enriching to think about these things.  

Of course I believe as Ray teaches that true science and scripture don't contradict, and that 'what is clearly seen' informs us about how God is working in His creation.   I don't disagree with anything in the above quotation (except for the spelling of 'quarks'    ).  I've learned not to recieve every teaching that comes along when it comes to spirituality.  You're not going to find me in a pentacostal camp-meeting, for one example.  Science has its own 'method' for determining what is true.  That's what science IS--method.  sci·en·tif·ic meth·od Noun: A method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses. 

On many things, the jury is still out, and it seems premature to pronounce judgement on my own--who is not a jury-member--by 'faith' or 'feeling'.  The one who thinks himself wise becomes a fool when he's shown he wasn't so wise after all.  Just me talking, but even when it's hard to bear, I LIKE those moments that have happened in my life thus far.  That's what this 'LIFE' thing is all about.  

In the twilight zone of my life between believing that 'other gospel' and believing the Gospel, I saw a film called something like "Where the [bleep] are We?".  It came out just as theories in quantum physics began to seep out of the scientists' symposiums and into the public's awareness.  Even so close to these 'breakthroughs', there was a religion forming around it and a spokesperson for it...a bald-headed woman in robes, as I recall.

There is more light in the world than in religion.  When religion enters the picture, everything turns dark.    I don't like to debate science.  I just try to understand it.  I have no argument with anybody unless they believe that we should EMBRACE false science and false spirituality.  That's not happening here.    

[Duane]

DNA/RNA are so divinely complicated and compact that I doubt God would make such  "wonders" and then make 90% of DNA "junk".
I would rather think that it is valuable and useful but WE don't yet understand it.  I was taught in H.S. that the appendix was an example of a "vestigial organ" (meaning an unnecessary organ) left over from the evolutionary process.  We later learned that the
appendix had a definite purpose--years to come the "junk DNA" will find purpose also.  God doesn't create junk! 

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Dave~

We are still not finished  metamorphosising into that pure and perfect image and presence, fully flooded by God Himself!’

Eph 3:19  And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20  Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us...

It is absolutely delightful to see you put your best food forward that blesses and demonstrates your thinking capacity to discern matters of belief.

You pinpoint new direction with acute discernment that commands Satan get behind the rotten banana into the equation or false belief or fears of deception, for the light has got to shine!

Fear is a syndrome that puts paralysis into the realms of religion which you so astutely and learnedly present as being quote “There is more light in the world than in religion.  When religion enters the picture, everything turns dark.” Unquote.

That’s when we come in...when everything turns dark! Perfect love casts out fear and here is where the fuzzy stuffing of loves soft underbelly has to show up not as bearing the teeth of a snarling wolf but as a true feeling of gratitude that we are not alone, we have brothers and sisters and God in His Great Wisdom made a Son and many sons and daughters to follow!

The bigger the love the bigger the family and I’m not talking about Angelina Jolie or Brad Pit!

Dave, I’ve never seen you looking so good. You have a wonderful ability to write and to edify with soundness of mind. that  God makes everything that is beautiful and perfect of you and credit goes where credit is due.

As a daughter of God Himself, I can honestly say, I look for the sibling identity of Father in and of our Glorious Big Brother, in the likeness we bear to them. They are the givers and creators of our joys, abilities and skills and these are the points of their Light within US.

Did you see what Ray noted about LIGHT?

Science has found out that light is both a light wave AND a particle beam! I don’t intend to blow you away or take any particles out of anyone yet WOW...That's Science!..as in...
 
I am the Alpha AND the Omega....

You have talents, God made, God fashioned, God created tallents that shine in your presentation to the Forum.

The thing about salt...I’d rather be the Light of the world and join the Light in my brothers and sisters....salt is scattered. Light scatters the dark.. yet hey...consider this...that particle, the beam particle that Scientists have reported...might be the SALT!

Jesus did not declare Himself to be the "salt" but the LIGHT of the world....maybe we are salt morphing into LIGHT...being a pillar of salt is not good....not good at all...~

You my dear brother are the light of the world.... Science agrees with Jesus and the Word of our Father agees!~

Arc

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Duane

The faith and confidence that Father doesn't make mistakes or make junk, is a Hall Mark of His Light!

Way to go dear brother!

Arc

[G. Driggs]

Will we ever see the Father? I think and hope so, but this comment from Ray made me think.

So I’m not quite sure yet. You may say what does it matter and so on and so forth? Well to me it is really an interesting concept, to know the answer to it. You know they say familiarity breeds contempt and that certainly is true to a large extent on the human level.

Those that work around the president everyday, after a while they can lose that awe and respect. I don’t think most of his cabinet do, but you know it can happen. You can think I can see his problems, he’s just like us, he’s no better than us. Sort of an attitude.

As carnal humans I can see how we would have contempt for the Father if we could see Him. What about as spiritual sons and daughters of God without all the carnality?

I guess we'll just have to wait and "see". For now these are my greatest hopes.

2Co 5:6  Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7  (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Gal 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

G.Driggs

[grapehound]

Dave in Tenn, I hear you Bro' and profound apologies for putting Craig's words in your mouth!

Arc, explicit gratitude for finding the post  

Duane, thanks for your considerations, WTG.  

G.Driggs, a valid question; and compare "When we see Him, we shall be like Him"?

Every Blessing,

Grape x

[Deborah-Leigh]

You are more than welcome Grape ~

Arc

[geokuhns]

The original question was: "Will We Ever 'See' the Father?" I ran across this scripture last night. Jesus is speaking to His disciples - the sermon on the mount. In Matt. 5:8 He says "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God."

[bob]

This was a topic on

Will we see God

« on: October 02, 2010, 11:46:15 AM »
Answers are here, Bob