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Author Topic: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?  (Read 14761 times)

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mavis92379

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #80 on: January 12, 2012, 05:02:15 PM »

Thank You Kat. This was very helpful.

I believe you are correct that we all maintain our individuality. What I do not believe is true is that we all see God and know God the same. All of our experiences build our personality and therefore we all would view God individually.

1John 3:2 says as we see Him we shall be like Him. Philip 2:8,9 says that because of Jesus obedience God has HIGHLY EXALTED HIM.  I do not think that is any different for any of us as individuals. As we see Christ, even now in these earthern vessels we shall be like Him. The more, Lord willing we lower ourselves and die to the flesh and serve one another the higher God will exalt us. He that is greatest among you shall be your servant ! If we carry this concept into the ressurection Christ has been EXALTED and given a name above every name ! When Paul says one star differs from another star in glory so it will be in the ressurection I would think that one who pushed on to know the power of Christs ressurection would be exalted to a higher name than another who was apprehended for less. There both part of one body but a Colonel sees and knows the General at a different understanding than a soilder even though God loves and cares for them both the same.

Than again I could be insane !
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2012, 05:58:04 PM »



To tune in, a little, may I say, Kat and mavis92379, you are both correct as light, that can be both a particle and wave. ;D

The mortal, human, thinking mind, is not unique merely through limitation, but also is made so, through originality.

Limits need not be the only criteria to make one different to another, or higher or lower in prestige. Like one might have limits in understanding and another might have excessive skills in mathematics to draw a literal comparison. Yet notice,  throughout humanity, consciousness has been rising to higher levels of consciousness OF God, as God demonstrates in us, through us and as us, His benevolent formlessness and Spirit of Love and Truth that subjugates death beneath our feet as we find and discover to our amazement, that our names are written in Heaven....whew...all in One Breath!
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2012, 06:07:25 PM »

Kat that was beautifully put!! I Loved the way you worded it all. I feel like the apostles when they said, Will you not show us plainly of the Father? And Jesus said... If you have seen me, you have seen the Father!

I honestly had this wide eyed opening moment where these very words ran through my head...

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

It was as if I could hear our Lords voice.. wow.. It all makes sense now!

Thanks again Kat!

God bless,

Alex
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 06:10:07 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2012, 06:09:24 PM »

Hi Mavis, we can all be insane in this together, LOL  ;D

Well Deb when you put it like that, I would have to agree.

That is wonderful Alex.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2012, 06:11:15 PM »

Hi Mavis, we can all be insane in this together, LOL  ;D

Well Deb when you put it like that, I would have to agree.

That is wonderful Alex.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

I stole your post and plastered it on facebook btw, i thought it was very powerful and just had to share with whoever would happen to read. Hope you don't mind, credit was given where it was due, of course =]
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2012, 06:23:27 PM »


Okay ALex, don't think I'm ready for facebook notoriety yet LOL  ;D  But if God provides the way for one person to be reached, who am I to say anything else.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2012, 06:31:36 PM »


Okay ALex, don't think I'm ready for facebook notoriety yet LOL  ;D  But if God provides the way for one person to be reached, who am I to say anything else.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Ah don't worry, i got a fly swatter you can borrow incase any of those fans get out of hand!!!  ;D  ;)
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

newgene87

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #87 on: January 13, 2012, 01:59:39 AM »

Okay, I just read this verse and I've never seen it before and just a thought. Even though se see in Genesis, "Let US make..." and a couple other times in genesis; but THIS verse, I see the Father AND the Son..."in the morning you shall see the glory of the Lord, for He hears your murmurings against the Lord. FOR WHAT ARE WE, THAT YOU MURMUR AGAINST US" (Exodus 16:7). So why hasn't the Father and Son (Jesus) being ONE LORD(Yahweh/Jehovah) been solved yet. Two in one. What's wrong with that?? Its practically what Jesus is saying. And He cannotbe the Father at the same time while he's the son and he says US.
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Kat

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2012, 10:40:24 AM »


Quote
"Let US make..." and a couple other times in genesis; but THIS verse, I see the Father AND the Son..."in the morning you shall see the glory of the Lord, for He hears your murmurings against the Lord. FOR WHAT ARE WE, THAT YOU MURMUR AGAINST US" (Exodus 16:7). So why hasn't the Father and Son (Jesus) being ONE LORD(Yahweh/Jehovah) been solved yet. Two in one. What's wrong with that??

Well I guess if this enigma a difficult thing for Ray to put together with Scriptural support and no contradictions, then certainly I can not explain it all out, that's for sure.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 07:34:10 PM by Kat »
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newgene87

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #89 on: January 13, 2012, 11:46:54 AM »

Nope nope; cause Deuteronomy 6:4 reveals that: "hear, O Israel! YAHWEH (or the Yahweh, how ray put it)is our ELOHIM, Yahweh (or the Yahweh) IS ONE". Now its truly on this site that its pointed out that JESUS is The YAHWEH of the Scriptures, which I still don't put together but I'm not far from it. Because ELOHIM and YAHWEH are used seperate in Scripture. Now Kate you know that Elohim is used in the Plural and how else would RAY explain where it says US in Genesis a couple of times and that Exodus. AND the ONENESS and at the same time "OBVIOUS" plurality is found in Scriptures like this, "that they all may be one, just as WE ARE ONE; I in them and YOU IN ME (do we all see that?)...so that the world may know that You SENT ME, and loved them, even as You have loved me" (John 17:22-23) and "I and the Father are one (in essence, spirit however u take it)  but word usage gives us "I" AND the Father". I see he didn't use The Yahweh or God: but the Father. And its the Jews who were beginning to stone Jesus for "making himself out [to be] God. He didn't even deny their claim. He says, "do you say of Him, whom the Father (NOT GOD, very important) sanctified and sent into the world, you are blaspheming, because I said, I AM THE SON OF GOD?" THEN goes on to say "that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." (John 10:30-38). Now that does not reveal TWO Gods but a duality consisting of one God. Not saying I agree everything of a binity or whatever. doctrine it claims to be. No not two Gods. Shema says Yahweh or Elohim is ONE YAHWEH. And that agrees with acts when peter said, "but put TO DEATH the Prince of Life, WHOM GOD RAISED FROM THE DEAD" (3:15). Jesus says He was the Son of God, the Son of the Father: He was put to death (can the Father Die?? No, Jesus is not the Fathr).  Oh I think this concept has been made harder than it is. I obviously see NO trinity (I see that's obsurd) and No two Gods. And we can't contradict "Let us...", "what are we that u murmur against us" we can't contradict those. And Jesus speaking of Him and His Father. And that he was Human, man, id better yet, "though he were a Son, He learned obedience through the things which suffered"(Heb5:8) and he PRAYED. He was man, God WITH US. And that would also explain, "THIS JESUS GOD RAISED UP AGAIN ...." (Acts2:32). And quotes a obvious DUAL Scripture and explains it, "Therefore let all Israel know for certain that God has MADE HIM BOTH LORD AND CHRIST - THIS JESUS  WHOM YOU CRUCIFIED" verse34-36. Whatever papaer ray is putting together he can't deny the many verses in acts which boldly state, "Jesus the Nazerene, a man attested to you BY GOD...which GOD PERFORMED Through Him". Ahhhh it slowly begins making sense to me. Hebrews reveal the Son as God as well, "...therefore God, YOUR GOD, has anointed You..."(Heb1:8-9). Still not TWO GODS just One Essence, Plural God because of the Honest usage of Elohim (PLURALITY) and the Oneness of Yahweh. Not to just jump out and yell Duality but dang, Did Jesus not say Him and the Father. Now unless Ray goes against those scriptures and still proclaim somehow that Jesus and the Father are connected some other way; then I am forever lost. Cause I only see what scripture sees, "I will be a Father to Him and He shall be a Son to Me" (Heb1:5). And someone else pointed out Ephesians 5:31-32, "and the TWO (husband and wife) shall become ONE flesh. This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christian and the church. So the concept of Two being one is used...why isit  thrown out when it implies the Father and Son when Hebrews 1 still stands???
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Rene

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #90 on: January 13, 2012, 12:28:10 PM »

Now unless Ray goes against those scriptures and still proclaim somehow that Jesus and the Father are connected some other way; then I am forever lost.

The relationship between the Father and Jesus is truly a fascinating subject and is obviously "deeper" than we ever imagined! :)

Ray introduced an interesting word when speaking on this subject in his email entitled "olam and ad; an inquiry::

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13773.0.html

And so all of the Scriptures harmonize and agree if we get rid of all that  "for ever and ever and ever"  nonsense.  Jesus
reigns by incarnation for a period of time. He reigns with all of the power, dignity, and character, of God Almighty.  This
includes being a "Father" to the nations of the world.  Jesus said: "When you see me you see THE FATHER."  The Father
is God.  And so Jesus could have just as well said: "When you see Me YOU SEE GOD!"  Why not?  The "Father" IS God.
How can we see God the Father (in the incarnation of Jesus) if the Father is not God?  So when we see God, we see
the Father (but only through incarnation, seeing that the Father God is INVISIBLE SPIRIT).  And since the Father is God,
when we see the Father in Christ, we see God in Christ, WE SEE GOD.  That may be as close as we ever come to
actually seeing God.  I will be covering this in more detail if I ever finish my paper:  "Solving the Enigma of God."

God be with you,
Ray


The definition of "incarnation" (Merriam-Webster Dictionary):

a (1): the embodiment of a deity or spirit in some earthly form (2): the union of divinity with humanity in Jesus Christ

This gave me something else to consider as I am also trying to understand this amazing relationship. :)

René
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newgene87

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #91 on: January 13, 2012, 12:49:51 PM »

GLORIOUS RENE. Thank you for that
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JD

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2012, 07:27:51 AM »

Hi folks - sorry to jump late on this thread....but I gotta say (and I've grumbled to the Lord about this) I can't be alone in thinking this (tell me I'm not alone people!)...where was I...oh yeah, complaining..

What frustrates me most about this whole Nature of God stuff (apart for impatiently waiting for Rays article) is this - Is knowing God REALLY THAT FLAMING COMPLICATED!? Lol! I mean, Did Paul have the answer? Did any of the disciples? Did the early church get it and now centuries on we've lost it. Is God's Word such a riddle that no-one understands who he is..I mean truth be told as far as apostate Christianity goes, God ain't telling no-one in a hurry apart from a very, very select few...see where I'm coming from? Why oh why Lord, the mystery, the enigma - how many/few have actually worshiped in Spirit and in truth(not that I'm suggesting an Occam's Razor approach here) but really??? Right - that feels better.

I'm off to bed, brow furrowed!

J.D.
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Gina

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2012, 01:26:14 PM »

Hi folks - sorry to jump late on this thread....but I gotta say (and I've grumbled to the Lord about this) I can't be alone in thinking this (tell me I'm not alone people!)...where was I...oh yeah, complaining..

What frustrates me most about this whole Nature of God stuff (apart for impatiently waiting for Rays article) is this - Is knowing God REALLY THAT FLAMING COMPLICATED!? Lol! I mean, Did Paul have the answer? Did any of the disciples? Did the early church get it and now centuries on we've lost it. Is God's Word such a riddle that no-one understands who he is..I mean truth be told as far as apostate Christianity goes, God ain't telling no-one in a hurry apart from a very, very select few...see where I'm coming from? Why oh why Lord, the mystery, the enigma - how many/few have actually worshiped in Spirit and in truth(not that I'm suggesting an Occam's Razor approach here) but really??? Right - that feels better.

I'm off to bed, brow furrowed!

J.D.

Too funny~lol  Dats right!
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Kat

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Re: Will We Ever 'See' the Father?
« Reply #94 on: January 28, 2012, 02:07:09 AM »


Hi JD,

Quote
What frustrates me most about this whole Nature of God stuff (apart for impatiently waiting for Rays article) is this - Is knowing God REALLY THAT FLAMING COMPLICATED!? Lol! I mean, Did Paul have the answer? Did any of the disciples? Did the early church get it and now centuries on we've lost it.

I have wondered that very thing. I certainly believe the Paul and the Apostles understood the nature of God. I have to believe that they gained that understanding from the time they spent with Jesus, but it may not have been fully understood until later on. But they certainly spoke in the Scriptures clearly of these things. But down through the generations it seems that Believers make have been so scathered and few... but we do know there was some believers to carry the truth forwards in every generation. But we are so blessed at this time that we can discuss these things with people all over the world and certainly have an increase of knowledge.

Dan 12:4  But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Maybe God is bringing out more Believers at this time, and this increase of knowledge coincides with that (intentionally), so that we can benefit.

Quote
Why oh why Lord, the mystery, the enigma - how many/few have actually worshiped in Spirit and in truth(not that I'm suggesting an Occam's Razor approach here) but really???


This enigma of God's nature must be a mystery, because the world does not and cannot know Him in this age. But maybe there is a rejuvenation of His truth and that is what we are experiencing in this generation. Just some thoughts.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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