Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Revilonivek]

I would like answers regarding the  Adam and Eve's story.  I have questions:

In Genesis, God  states he deems everything perfect.  How can something fail if they are already perfect? God created a perfect world, He created Adam and Eve and deemed them perfect in every way. How can they sin if they are perfect? How can perfectness fail?

Why expect Adam and Eve to obey well if they do not know the difference between Good and Evil yet?

Eve was not warned by God not to eat the fruit from tree of Good and Evil, only Adam- Why kick her out?why condemn her and the rest of the females to have painful childbirth experiences because she disobeyed? You punish if they know the difference between good and evil, not before. bible states she ate it because she thought it looked good, pleasing to the eye to eat. That's the only reason she ate it. She didn't think it was wrong to eat of it because she doesn't understand right and wrong. she only ate it because it looked good to eat.

It is only then, After they ate the fruit ,they understood the difference between Good and Evil and covered themselves. Satan told the truth about what would have happened if they did. He told them they would think like gods, and know the difference between Good and Evil. God only told Adam that he would die if he ate from the tree of good and evil. Satan told them in depth of what would happen if they did. It's like messing with creatures that know nothing of good and evil. Eve only ate it because it looked good to eat... soo innocent and she gave it to Adam because she wanted to share...

How can something deemed perfect fail if God deemed them perfect in the first place. How can they sin if they have no knowledge of good and evil? why punish them?  Can you still sin without knowing the difference between good and evil and be held accountable for it?  Unless they already had the understanding beforehand? My question is.. Why condemn them when they did not know the difference between Good and Evil?

It just doesn't make sense.

It's been on my mind and would like answers from the wise ones to put these thoughts to rest.

Many thanks to all who can help me with this.

Denise

[mharrell08]

I would like answers regarding the  Adam and Eve's story.  I have questions:

In Genesis, God  states he deems everything perfect.  How can something fail if they are already perfect? God created a perfect world, He created Adam and Eve and deemed them perfect in every way. How can they sin if they are perfect? How can perfectness fail?

The scriptures never say God created a perfect world. God deemed what He created to be 'good' including Satan. Everything was good for it's intended purpose, not good in and of themselves.

Why expect Adam and Eve to obey well if they do not know the difference between Good and Evil yet?

God never expected Adam & Eve to be anything more than what they were: sinners. As Paul said, without the law, there is no transgression. One cannot be found at fault if there is nothing to be in obedience to. No one realizes the degree they need God until they fall hopelessly short of His glory.

Eve was not warned by God not to eat the fruit from tree of Good and Evil, only Adam- Why kick her out?why condemn her and the rest of the females to have painful childbirth experiences because she disobeyed?

Eve was not being picked on. She knew very well that she was not to eat of the tree as she told the serpent herself.

Childbirth, while extremely painful, brings a mother closer to her child than anyone can imagine. Something no man will ever understand. I don't think too many women would trade the bond they have with their child for anything in the world.

You punish if they know the difference between good and evil, not before. bible states she ate it because she thought it looked good, pleasing to the eye to eat. That's the only reason she ate it. She didn't think it was wrong to eat of it because she doesn't understand right and wrong. she only ate it because it looked good to eat.

She was tempted and ate of the fruit from all the sins of the world described in 1 John 2:16 (lust of the flesh, lust of the eye, pride of life). She knew the commandment from God to not eat of the tree but she was drawn away by her own lusts, as would any other person.

It is only then, After they ate the fruit ,they understood the difference between Good and Evil and covered themselves.

They already understood what was good (to not eat of the tree) and what was evil (to eat of the tree). What they began to realize is what it means to give into their flesh. That's why they were ashamed, not from a lack of clothes. They were husband & wife, they had already seen each other's privates.

Satan told the truth about what would have happened if they did. He told them they would think like gods, and know the difference between Good and Evil. God only told Adam that he would die if he ate from the tree of good and evil. Satan told them in depth of what would happen if they did.

God told Adam & Eve they would die while Satan said 'you shall NOT surely die'. That's not teaching in depth, that is a bold-face lie Satan told.

They began to realize the shame of who & what they were...God does not feel shame for what He is. So no, that was another lie from Satan when he said Adam & Eve would 'be like God'.

It's like messing with creatures that know nothing of good and evil. Eve only ate it because it looked good to eat... soo innocent and she gave it to Adam because she wanted to share...

She was deceived, but still drawn by her own lusts. Accountable but not responsible...and certainly not innocent.

How can something deemed perfect fail if God deemed them perfect in the first place.

He never deemed anyone or anything recorded in Genesis as 'perfect'.

How can they sin if they have no knowledge of good and evil? why punish them?

Broke the commandment to not eat of the tree as well as drawn by their own lusts. But God didn't create them to punish them, but to teach (chastise). To conform them to His image.

Can you still sin without knowing the difference between good and evil and be held accountable for it?

Yes, we are all accountable when we are drawn away by our own lusts/temptations. No one is forced to sin, no matter how much knowledge they have.

Unless they already had the understanding beforehand? My question is.. Why condemn them when they did not know the difference between Good and Evil?

It just doesn't make sense.

Again, God didn't create the human race to condemn it, but rather, to save it.

John 3:17  God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

But God chastises every son (and daughter) that He receives:

Prov 3:11  ...do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor detest His correction.

Heb 12:5  ...you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: “My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him"

It's been on my mind and would like answers from the wise ones to put these thoughts to rest.

Many thanks to all who can help me with this.

Denise

Read the articles on the site. It's always easy to see when a forum member has not taken the time to read Ray's papers. There are no stupid questions, but there are redundant ones which have been answered through & through in Ray's papers. I'm not saying that to be harsh, just speaking the truth.

If you truly want to stop 'wrestling' with these thoughts and beliefs, read the site and continue to ask God to open your understanding.


Hope this helps,

Marques

[Revilonivek]

Help me work through something, if you would.

What exactly does the Tree of Good and Evil do to us? How does it change our nature, before and after you eat the fruit?

According to Genesis, Adam and Eve disobeyed God by "eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" by giving into their lusts. It was THEN that their eyes were open, realized their "nakedness" and was ashamed.

My point I'm trying to ask about is... I am trying to understand the nature of the fruit from the Tree of Good and Evil. It does not make SENSE. If adam and Eve know how to obey, They must know what is right, and what is wrong. Disobeying is a form of evil. They know it was wrong to disobey.. unless they disobeyed without understanding that it was wrong..  Im trying to figure this out... WHat is the nature of the fruit  from the tree of good and evil? what does it do to us? what makes it different before u eat, and after you eat..

According to Genesis... before they ate the fruit- They were not ashamed with their "nakedness"  but after they ate the fruit, They became aware of what is improper and what's not, and saw nakedness was wrong, and  became ashamed.. proceeded to cover themselves.  Unless, They use to have a glow that covers their privates and  when that glow was gone, they realized they did something wrong and covered themselves..maybe? 

Unless, they already knew the difference between Good and Evil before they ate the fruit, it was just a test to see if they can resist the temptation?  If that is the story.. why call the tree, knowledge of good an evil? why just call it a tree with delicious fruit that is forbidden by God to eat? Why call it Tree that holds the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Satan even said the truth. He said the fruit would open our eyes, and think as like gods. Granted, he lied about the dying part, but he gave partial truth though.

Bear with me, more questions..

Was satan already branded a deceiver, at the time, Adam and Eve was in the garden, or was he branded a deceiver only after he seduced Adam and Eve in sinning?  Here's another question in the same parameter. Satan was communicating with Eve through a serpent. Don't you think Eve would have found this odd that a snake could communicate, unless all animals in the garden can communicate with you back then?  She didn't find that odd at all when they communicated..  Unless he was in the form of a person that was branded a serpent after the fact? You would be freaked out and run to Adam if an animal talks to you. Right?

Thanks for your help.

Denise

[daywalker]

Hello Denise,

As Marques has already stated, Ray answers many of these questions in his articles, especially in his Lake of Fire series. In Part 2, he specifically talks about Adam and Eve, and the whole Garden scenario. If I were you, I'd start on part 1 and read through it all. From the "Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil" to "Adam and Eve" to "nakedness" to "Satan the adversary" and the "existence of Evil"--all these are discussed thoroughly and with many, many scriptures:

http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html

Reading these articles will be one of the best things you've ever done for yourself; I speak from experience. 


Peace...Daywalker 

Help me work through something, if you would.

What exactly does the Tree of Good and Evil do to us? How does it change our nature, before and after you eat the fruit?

According to Genesis, Adam and Eve disobeyed God by "eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" by giving into their lusts. It was THEN that their eyes were open, realized their "nakedness" and was ashamed.

My point I'm trying to ask about is... I am trying to understand the nature of the fruit from the Tree of Good and Evil. It does not make SENSE. If adam and Eve know how to obey, They must know what is right, and what is wrong. Disobeying is a form of evil. They know it was wrong to disobey.. unless they disobeyed without understanding that it was wrong..  Im trying to figure this out... WHat is the nature of the fruit  from the tree of good and evil? what does it do to us? what makes it different before u eat, and after you eat..

According to Genesis... before they ate the fruit- They were not ashamed with their "nakedness"  but after they ate the fruit, They became aware of what is improper and what's not, and saw nakedness was wrong, and  became ashamed.. proceeded to cover themselves.  Unless, They use to have a glow that covers their privates and  when that glow was gone, they realized they did something wrong and covered themselves..maybe? 

Unless, they already knew the difference between Good and Evil before they ate the fruit, it was just a test to see if they can resist the temptation?  If that is the story.. why call the tree, knowledge of good an evil? why just call it a tree with delicious fruit that is forbidden by God to eat? Why call it Tree that holds the Knowledge of Good and Evil?

Satan even said the truth. He said the fruit would open our eyes, and think as like gods. Granted, he lied about the dying part, but he gave partial truth though.

Bear with me, more questions..

Was satan already branded a deceiver, at the time, Adam and Eve was in the garden, or was he branded a deceiver only after he seduced Adam and Eve in sinning?  Here's another question in the same parameter. Satan was communicating with Eve through a serpent. Don't you think Eve would have found this odd that a snake could communicate, unless all animals in the garden can communicate with you back then?  She didn't find that odd at all when they communicated..  Unless he was in the form of a person that was branded a serpent after the fact? You would be freaked out and run to Adam if an animal talks to you. Right?

Thanks for your help.

Denise

[Kat]

Hi Denise,

I will explain this the way that I understand it. The story of Adam and Eve is a real literal thing that happened, therefore not a parable. God uses it as a type and shadow to explain about all humanity that follow right in their footsteps.

What exactly does the Tree of Good and Evil do to us? How does it change our nature, before and after you eat the fruit?

I believe this was a literal tree, but it represented something much greater and that is life and how we live it, good and evil. It was a test for them and it shows that as with them no human being can or will obey, but all will follow their own lusts.

Psa 14:3  All have gone aside, together they are filthy; there is none who does good, no, not one.

Rom 3:23  for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

All humans are born with a carnal human nature, it's not something that happens at some point, we are born that way.

Rom 8:7  because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be.

So we 'eat of the fruit' so to speak, as we live our lives and experience good and evil. God has deemed it necessary for all humanity to experience this physical life to gain and learn from personal experience about good and evil. So for now this age is for this carnal experience that we all are having, it's for a backdrop, a backdrop of darkness. Only a very few are being chosen out and given God's Holy Spirit to have their eyes opened to the truth/light in this age.

Was Satan already branded a deceiver, at the time, Adam and Eve was in the garden, or was he branded a deceiver only after he seduced Adam and Eve in sinning?  Here's another question in the same parameter. Satan was communicating with Eve through a serpent. Don't you think Eve would have found this odd that a snake could communicate, unless all animals in the garden can communicate with you back then?

Satan is a spirit and can not be seen, therefore God speaks of him in terms that we can relate to. Here is what Ray says about him.


http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html ----------------

Is this really describing something physical?  

[Ray's reply]

Satan is a spirit being, seeing that he has been around for thousands of years. He is called a devil, serpent/snake, dragon, etc. We are not exactly sure what a dragon looks like, but supposedly it is in the reptile family as are snakes.
Nowhere that I can think of, did Satan ever appear visibly to anyone. Therefore his serpent/dragon qualities (or lack thereof) must be spiritual. Satan is a SPIRITUAL SNAKE. He has the secret, stealth qualities of a snake moving unseen in the dark. Although he is "like" [in certain characteristics] a roaring lion, he is not a lion, but "as" a lion he goes about seeking whom he may devour [Gk: 'swallow up' as in 'swallow a camel']. Spiritually devour/swallow.

So, did Eve talk with a literal, physical, snake, face to face, in the garden? I don't think so.
------------------------------------------------------------------

John 8:44  You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and did not abide in the truth because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it.
 
Satan from the beginning was created as he is, he did not turn into the devil. So it was not a literal snake, Eve was tempted and drawn away by her own lustful carnal human nature.


I think you are trying to jump way ahead on these things. If you really want to gain a good understanding of these things you need to read all the articles that Ray has written. There are bits and pieces all through them that you will gleem as you go to build your understanding of these things. Getting a condensed answer here will not give you all that we had to read through to come to the understanding that we have. There are no short cuts, the time and effort it takes is just a necessary part of being approved to God.

2Tim 2:15  Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God, a workman that does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Revilonivek]

Thanks for the link, daywalker-

I have read the Adam and Eve story in the LOF. Ray covers what God had in mind for humanity, not what Christendom understands.

But it still does not answer my question..

Kat- Are you saying that the fruit symbolizes a warning that  if they ate it, they may have to actually experience the hardship, both spiritually and physically, even though they already have an understanding of good and evil beforehand but never experienced hardships associated with it?  if so, that will make alot of sense and would answer my question.

If God intends them to learn through hardships, fine.. I'm fine with it.. but why put them in the garden... till they mess up, and then say.. oh you messed up, you're outta of here.

One other question is this... when all of this life is over... Do we lose the knowledge of good and evil when God wipes our tears and memory of our reproach on earth and we start over with a new life...or do we keep the gift of that knowledge of good and evil as stated in the garden of Eden or do we lose it?

Thank you all for your help.

Denise

[Craig]

One other question is this... when all of this life is over... Do we lose the knowledge of good and evil when God wipes our tears and memory of our reproach on earth and we start over with a new life...or do we keep the gift of that knowledge of good and evil as stated in the garden of Eden or do we lose it?

I'll stab that question.  Of course we will not lose this knowledge.  It took much suffering and heartache to receive it, it is the hardest thing we will ever experience.  We are being created in the image of God, He is birthing us.  We will know good and evil and we will be able to righteously use this knowledge as God does and for God's purpose.

Craig

[Kat]

Hi Denise,

Are you saying that the fruit symbolizes a warning that  if they ate it, they may have to actually experience the hardship, both spiritually and physically, even though they already have an understanding of good and evil beforehand but never experienced hardships associated with it?

Eve eating the fruit was just one small example that was giving us. Eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil symbolize living life. It was not a question of 'if' they would eat it. They did not already have knowledge, that is the way you gain understanding, by eating/experiencing life.

If God intends them to learn through hardships, fine.. I'm fine with it.. but why put them in the garden... till they mess up, and then say.. oh you messed up, you're outta of here.

To me the garden scenario represents in general what happens to us all. We are born into the hands of loving parents (like God teaching Adam in the garden), one day we go our own way and out into the world, away from the security of home. See the similarity? But everybody has to learn through error/sin, if we don't like the consequences, so we don't do it again.

... Do we lose the knowledge of good and evil when God wipes our tears and memory of our reproach on earth and we start over with a new life...or do we keep the gift of that knowledge of good and evil as stated in the garden of Eden or do we lose it?

Like Craig said, I certainly believe we retain our memory of this life. It is through these experiences that we learn, so why remove all these valuable lesson from our memory. The understanding of what we are capable of without the Spirit of God indwelling to guide us (dark backdrop) is a precious gift of knowledge that we will always have, so to be all the more thankful for what we have when we come to the truth/light.

1Pe 2:9  But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for possession, so that you might speak of the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[cheekie3]

Denise -

I believe the term used in Genesis is "Good" or "Very Good" and not "Perfect".

I believe God stated that everything He Created and Made was "Good" or "Very Good" in that it was as He Willed or Desired His Creation to function.

Regarding Eve, most would accept that Adam informed Eve of what God told him about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Eve's sin is one of "The Lust of the Flesh", "The Lust of the Eyes" or "the pride of Life"; and probably all three.

God made Mankind "Sinning Machines" so we would all experience the "knowledge of Good and Evil"; just as we all do in our Daily Lives - and the endgame is for each one of us to "Choose" to Do "Good" rather than "Evil".

You are correct that a "Perfect" "Man" or "Woman" cannot sin; which was the case with Jesus Christ - who was the only one "Not to Sin".

Regards, cheekie3.

[daywalker]

If God intends them to learn through hardships, fine.. I'm fine with it.. but why put them in the garden... till they mess up, and then say.. oh you messed up, you're outta of here.

To me the garden scenario represents in general what happens to us all. We are born into the hands of loving parents (like God teaching Adam in the garden), one day we go our own way and out into the world, away from the security of home. See the similarity? But everybody has to learn through error/sin, if we don't like the consequences, so we don't do it again.


mercy, peace and love
Kat

Wow, Kat, those are some very good points you make! You just made me realize a connection between the Garden of Eden story and the Prodigal Son parable! I never before considered the similarities between them:

* Adam and Eve dwelled in Eden with plenty of food and security... just as the Prodigal son dwelled in his father's house with plenty of food and security

* Adam and Eve chose (willingly, though not "freely") to eat the forbidden fruit and be cast out of Eden... just as the Prodigal son chose to leave his father's house and live a life of carnal pleasure

* Just as the Prodigal son learned through the tough trials he faced that he needed to be reunited with his father... so also we learn through the tough trials of our lives that we need our Heavenly Father (as I'm sure Adam and Eve also learned throughout their lives after leaving Eden).


Anyway, just a few thoughts I had when reading your reply Kat... Daywalker 

[Revilonivek]

Isaiah 65 says we will not remember our former life, nor will it enter our mind.. Of course this is after the 1000 years reign. 

Isaiah 65:16-18

 16That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

 17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.


Genesis is defined in many languages as an origin, a birth, a beginning....Revelations is a book that focuses on  what must be done to complete our spiritual development.

Many thanks to you all! you all helped put things in perspective for me. It does make sense.. Genesis is after all,  explains our spiritual state in the beginning...untrained. Garden of Eden represent home and security... The whole bible explains our whole progress of spiritual development. It is like the prodigal son, returning home once we learn everything we need to learn... I look forward to that day when we can all return home. Of course as refined. I am also glad we will not need to remember the former life. It is traumatizing enough.


Denise

[mharrell08]

Isaiah 65 says we will not remember our former life, nor will it enter our mind.. Of course this is after the 1000 years reign. 

Isaiah 65:16-18

 16That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

 17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

 18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

A better translation of verse 17 contains 'the former shall not be mentioned, nor come into heart' [Rotherham Emphasized Bible]. In simple terms, after God forgives, He doesn't continue to throw it in our faces. But He's not going to mind-wipe us.

Remember, no prophecy of scripture interprets itself [2 Pet 1:20, Prov 1:6].

[Craig]

Isaiah says no such thing..pay attention to the words.  And like Marques says check translations if something is not clear.  And always find a second witness to any scripture we come to question.

Craig

[Revilonivek]

okay here's scripture from the Rotherham Emphasized bible..

65:16 So that he who blesseth himself in the earth, Will bless himself in the God of faithfulness, And he who sweareth in the earth Will swear by the God of faithfulness - Because the former troubles have been forgotten, and Because they are hid from mine eyes.

65:17For, behold me! Creating new heavens, and a new earth, - And the former shall not be mentioned, neither shall they come up on the heart,


here'es another, from Ecclesiastes. Rotherham Empasized Bible

Ecclesiastes 1:9-11

9 That which hath been, is the same that shall be, and, that which hath been done, is the same that shall be done, - and there is, nothing new, under the sun. 10 Is there a thing, of which it can be said, See here, it is, new? Already, hath it been, for ages, it is something which was before us. 11 There is, no remembrance, of the thing before, - nor, even of the things after, which shall be, will there be any remembrance, with them who shall come after.

Maybe he's just talking about the present time, his time. Maybe I'm wrong. throughout scriptures, you can find scriptures that God commands we are not to remember the former things, for they passed away.

Here's another interesting information I came across:  Isaiah 65:20

I think he is comparing what it will be like in the new world to come, comparing it to this current world.
100 yrs. in this world is a lifetime to us, but in the new heavens and new earth 100 yrs. is like being a infant or a
child in the new world. Cool huh?

20.There shall be thenceforward, no more, A suckling of a few days, or an elder Who filleth not up his days, - But, a youth a hundred years old, may die, Yea a sinner a hundred years old, shall he accursed,
 

[Kat]

Hi Denise,

Look at how the Good News Bible has that verse is Isaiah.

Isa 65:16  Anyone in the land who asks for a blessing will ask to be blessed by the faithful God. Whoever takes an oath will swear by the name of the faithful God. The troubles of the past will be gone and forgotten."

When we understand why God's plan is the way it is, we will not dwelling on the bad things that will be "gone and forgotten," but not erased from our momory.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[mharrell08]

okay here's scripture from the Rotherham Emphasized bible..

65:16 So that he who blesseth himself in the earth, Will bless himself in the God of faithfulness, And he who sweareth in the earth Will swear by the God of faithfulness - Because the former troubles have been forgotten, and Because they are hid from mine eyes.

65:17For, behold me! Creating new heavens, and a new earth, - And the former shall not be mentioned, neither shall they come up on the heart,


here'es another, from Ecclesiastes. Rotherham Empasized Bible

Ecclesiastes 1:9-11

9 That which hath been, is the same that shall be, and, that which hath been done, is the same that shall be done, - and there is, nothing new, under the sun. 10 Is there a thing, of which it can be said, See here, it is, new? Already, hath it been, for ages, it is something which was before us. 11 There is, no remembrance, of the thing before, - nor, even of the things after, which shall be, will there be any remembrance, with them who shall come after.

Maybe he's just talking about the present time, his time. Maybe I'm wrong. throughout scriptures, you can find scriptures that God commands we are not to remember the former things, for they passed away.

Here's another interesting information I came across:  Isaiah 65:20

I think he is comparing what it will be like in the new world to come, comparing it to this current world.
100 yrs. in this world is a lifetime to us, but in the new heavens and new earth 100 yrs. is like being a infant or a
child in the new world. Cool huh?

20.There shall be thenceforward, no more, A suckling of a few days, or an elder Who filleth not up his days, - But, a youth a hundred years old, may die, Yea a sinner a hundred years old, shall he accursed,

Denise, it seems like you're reaching in trying to prove your point. Another word for remembrance is 'memorial or reminder', it's doesn't always mean to simply remember.

Read through the entire chapter of Ecclesiastes. All the works of mankind have been done before, not all literally but definitely spiritually in our hearts. The 'lusts of the flesh' has been in us from the beginning and will continue until the end of the age. That's what it means by 'nothing new under the sun'.

But do we 'remember' all these things which have been done? Yes we do, all the great tragedies in human history have scores of books written about them, memorials built across the world, constant reminders throughout society. But what do they profit us? We still continue in our 'lusts of the flesh' as if we have no 'remembrance'. It's because we don't keep these things in our hearts as a remembrance/reminder/memorial. God says there is no 'remembrance' with them who shall come after, they don't keep it in their hearts.

Everyone remembers 9/11 but few have actually kept that compassion they felt for one another in their hearts since. There is no 'remembrance', nor shall they be for those who come after [Ecc 1:11].


Marques

[John from Kentucky]

God is in the process of creating mankind in God's image.  Gen. 1:27  Or, in other words, God is reproducing Himself after His own kind.

One thing that is necessary for a God is to have knowledge of good and evil.  "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..."  Gen. 3:22

Therefore, we will retain our knowledge of good and evil, which we learn in this life, the hard way, by experience.

[Joel]

The nature of the tree is, "tree of the knowledge of"---good and evil.
Genesis 2:9
I don't see where it says they ate from the "tree of life" that was also there.

Rebellion brings judgement and separation from God's presence, Jesus dieing on the cross and our faith in him, brings us back to God.
We will remember that Christ died for us no doubt, don't think God keeps bringing up our past sins, where is the forgiveness there?
Roman's 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Philippians 3:13
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Something to ponder.
Proverbs 30:20
Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

Only thing that keeps our sins ever before us, is not repenting.

Joel

[Revilonivek]

9 That which hath been, is the same that shall be, and, that which hath been done, is the same that shall be done, - and there is, nothing new, under the sun. 10 Is there a thing, of which it can be said, See here, it is, new? Already, hath it been, for ages, it is something which was before us. 11 There is, no remembrance, of the thing before, - nor, even of the things after, which shall be, will there be any remembrance, with them who shall come after.


Marques,

I think you are right, however we say things like this now because We tend to remember things that hurts us more than remember things that are good. We are not evolved enough yet.  That is the problem. When the scriptures say former things passes away, we remember it no more... in the heart or mind, How can we be evolved spiritually if we remember sins of our own and others and still be stuck somewhere.  We cannot truly forgive if we remember their iniquities. 

I think what the scriptures mean is that  in the next world, it will no longer be a priority to remember the former things, as it will be deemed trivial in the next world. as a heart that is pure, it cannot hold on to these things.  as it is said in isaiah 65:20, a whole lifetime in this world is likened to a infant or young child in the next world... In this world, Can you remember the things that you do as a child or a baby?  have you ever met a 4 year old that holds sin against you... not one. their heart is too pure.  even though they experienced it,  they don't hold it against you for very long because they love you more than the sin itself.  it is not even a priority in the next world.. We may remember that we lived a horrible life, a life full of hardships, but that's it. It's trivial compared to what is to come in the next world.  Jesus himself said we are not entering the next world as an adult, he said, we are to enter the next world as a child.

That's just my two cents.

[mharrell08]

Sometimes I don't know if you are sincerely asking a question or using a question as an outlet to bring outside teaching. You never seem to take responses from forum members into consideration...you just go to another 'question' in which you spend more time explaining what you believe rather than actually asking anything.

How can we come to together in the unity of the spirit if everything's open to one's own interpretation? When everyone wants their own interpretation of the scriptures to be right, it creates division.