> General Discussions
Adam and Eve
Revilonivek:
--- Quote from: Moises on July 07, 2011, 12:28:28 AM ---
Coming to these room in the forum makes me feel little. So many good responses from brothers that take online relations as serious as they really are.
I will just add one paragraph, in case it helps building somehow,
When an good artist starts out with his painting he usually already have an idea of how is it going to end, and every brush he gives is good. Sometimes while working on a painting somebody can come and say that it is ugly an imperfect because they think is finished, when in reality the artist is just starting out.
And if the artist is the best artist of the Cosmos, His final work will be perfect and every brushing that He is doing is very good for it's final purpose ....After all, WE are His beautiful workmanship...
Deniss, you seem to have good speech and be trying to be honest with your questions, one thing I don't get is how someone can be reading since 2006 and still be asking about the supposedly ''perfect'' Adam and Eve issue, that is like one of the first questions that gets out when someone start reading or even talking about these truths. Perhaps, maybe lately somebody have come to you with these questions and you just wanted to make sure and learn how to respond to others more concrete...
--- End quote ---
Hey Moises,
I have been visiting since 2006 but not constantly enough. For the most part, I come back to visit alot though. I am known as Lacey23 if anyone remembers the last time I was here years ago. I have been going through alot of things, it's changing me and I've learned alot. That's for sure. As for word usage, sometime I confuse meanings of perfect with good. Talking to people like you, helps me realize it does make a huge difference. sometimes talking things out, discussing, etc, helps us realize more things than just reading alone. Thoughts are powerful tool. It makes us who we are.
God bless,
Denise
Kat:
Here is a bit more I found concerning Adam and Eve to add to this discussion.
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html ---------------
Adam and Eve did not sin because they wanted to sin. No, they sinned because they were too spiritually weak to resist sin. True, they did volunteer to sin, but again, that was because they were to weak to resist the temptation to sin.
It is an incredible thing how many people fault our first parents for sinning. They believe that all the problems of this world and all of the problems that we individually suffer would have never come about if our first parents, Adam and Eve, had not been so stupid and had not sinned. How utterly foolish and unscriptural is such a thought. God never intended for our first parents to live perfectly in such a weakened spiritual state.
v
Heb. 5:8-9 Though He [Jesus] were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He SUFFERED. And being MADE perfect, He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.
Jesus was, MADE perfect through suffering, LEARNED obedience through suffering, and was MADE perfect, but theologians would have us believe that Adam and Eve were ALREADY PERFECT FROM THEIR CREATION AND DIDN’T NEED TO SUFFER ANYTHING!!
Humans cannot be spiritually perfected instantaneously, or by magic. Even the Son of God was required to be perfected [made spiritually mature] through "suffering." This requires time and circumstances--God, therefore, creates time and circumstances.
God did not overlook the fact that humans require clothing. God created Adam and Eve naked and then left them naked in the Garden. Why didn’t God just leave them naked after they sinned? Because nakedness is a parable of our SPIRITUAL CONDITION. Adam and Eve thought that they were okay by their own powers. They were NOT. They were in the very same spiritual condition as the Church of Laodicea (which is a picture of the whole Church today, except for a precious few):
"Because you say that I am rich and increased with goods, and have need of nothing [Did not Adam and Eve feel that they were rich and in need of nothing?]; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and NAKED" (Rev. 3:17).
v
And so, if you or I or any other human who has ever lived or ever will live (save Jesus) would have the same opportunity as Adam and Eve had in the garden, we too, every one of us, would have also sinned just as they did. Any person who would argue otherwise is either deceived or a liar. Adam and Eve were not weaker than most people who have ever lived. If anything, they were stronger, but not strong enough to resist the temptation of sin. This garden scene is not a drama over whether or not free will, will, or will not make the right choice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: Kat on July 08, 2011, 09:35:27 AM ---
Here is a bit more I found concerning Adam and Eve to add to this discussion.
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html ---------------
Adam and Eve did not sin because they wanted to sin. No, they sinned because they were too spiritually weak to resist sin. True, they did volunteer to sin, but again, that was because they were to weak to resist the temptation to sin.
It is an incredible thing how many people fault our first parents for sinning. They believe that all the problems of this world and all of the problems that we individually suffer would have never come about if our first parents, Adam and Eve, had not been so stupid and had not sinned. How utterly foolish and unscriptural is such a thought. God never intended for our first parents to live perfectly in such a weakened spiritual state.
v
Heb. 5:8-9 Though He [Jesus] were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He SUFFERED. And being MADE perfect, He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him.
Jesus was, MADE perfect through suffering, LEARNED obedience through suffering, and was MADE perfect, but theologians would have us believe that Adam and Eve were ALREADY PERFECT FROM THEIR CREATION AND DIDN’T NEED TO SUFFER ANYTHING!!
Humans cannot be spiritually perfected instantaneously, or by magic. Even the Son of God was required to be perfected [made spiritually mature] through "suffering." This requires time and circumstances--God, therefore, creates time and circumstances.
God did not overlook the fact that humans require clothing. God created Adam and Eve naked and then left them naked in the Garden. Why didn’t God just leave them naked after they sinned? Because nakedness is a parable of our SPIRITUAL CONDITION. Adam and Eve thought that they were okay by their own powers. They were NOT. They were in the very same spiritual condition as the Church of Laodicea (which is a picture of the whole Church today, except for a precious few):
"Because you say that I am rich and increased with goods, and have need of nothing [Did not Adam and Eve feel that they were rich and in need of nothing?]; and know not that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and NAKED" (Rev. 3:17).
v
And so, if you or I or any other human who has ever lived or ever will live (save Jesus) would have the same opportunity as Adam and Eve had in the garden, we too, every one of us, would have also sinned just as they did. Any person who would argue otherwise is either deceived or a liar. Adam and Eve were not weaker than most people who have ever lived. If anything, they were stronger, but not strong enough to resist the temptation of sin. This garden scene is not a drama over whether or not free will, will, or will not make the right choice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Aren't those amazing thoughts? Jesus was made perfect. Must mean He wasn't perfect to start with. Jesus learned obedience through suffering. Must mean He didn't know everything to begin with. He had to experience suffering to learn obedience. So must we.
These thoughts will get you thrown out of just about every Christian church that I'm aware of.
Craig:
--- Quote ---hese thoughts will get you thrown out of just about every Christian church that I'm aware of.
--- End quote ---
So true. Why is that so hard for them to grasp? It is pretty plain that God is creating us in His image to be His children. Christ is the first born of creation and as the son of the Father he has been perfected. Now God is creating and perfecting more children, we know we are perfected through suffering, pain and experience. Why is it such a leap to conclude Jesus was perfected the same way? Don't you think God knows what He is doing and Christ was the example for us all?
Craig
Duane:
I believe that we will remember life on earth because we will be held accountable for how we lived it. (2) because the rememberence enables us to have grounds for praising God for guiding us thru it--and His many protections of us (3) some that experience the Lake of Fire will experience "deep shame and remorse" as part of their cleansing--according to Ray's articles. If they can't remember, it would be hard to be ashamed/remorseful. (Thank you, Kat--I learned it from your posts.)
If "lovedoneread" was referring to ME in "seeking vain glory and recognition" for my evangelizing, I suppose you are partially RIGHT but I get so exuberant about meeting people and sharing the TRUTH (and this web-site) that I have to rejoice by SHARING, and then hope people can rejoice WITH me, or atleast be ENCOURAGED to speak out for God's glory themselves. God will judge me fairly, as he knows my heart. All of
you are my family so I share my joys with you--and I chose the TESTIMONIAL site to post it as it was a testimony as to God's provision for my transportation against all odds. Enufff said.
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