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Hebrew/Jewish perspectives revealed!
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote ---Remember the forum rules: No Outside Teaching/Preaching
Thanks,
Marques
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Some of the quotes here are from other teachings on the Internet.
G. Driggs:
--- Quote from: jong on July 18, 2011, 02:55:54 AM ---
A Jewish day usually starts at Sunset and ends on the following Sunset, which is modelled after God/Yahweh's creation of the first day. (Genesis 1: So the evening and the morning were the first day.)
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Dont know about Jewish days, but I know what Jesus says as expounded by Ray.
But first a couple verses to consider. From chaos to order is God's plan for the universe and all of humanity.
Gen 1:5 And calling is the Elohim the light "day, and the darkness He calls "night." And coming is it to be evening and coming to be morning, day one.
Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone should be walking in the day, he is not stumbling, for he is observing the light of this world."
Joh 11:10 Yet if anyone should be walking in the night, he is stumbling, for the light is not in him
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9130.0.html
The word day is yom, spelled y-o-m, like home. Yom is almost never, ever used in the scriptures. You’ll find day like 2000 times, but almost never ever does it mean 24 hours or what some would call a solar day, from sunset to sunset and again sunset to sunset, sunset to sunset. Almost never is it used that way. They think it is, but it’s not.
If they would follow the scriptures closely, they would have avoided this from time memorial. Even in the King James, it’s not hidden. People say, ‘Well, it’s talking about literal days, literal 24 hour days.’ There’s no such thing as a literal 24 hour days.
First of all, you don’t find 24 hour days anywhere in the scriptures. Sometimes there is a period that has reference to 24 hours, but inevitably it will always then say day and night. So you know it’s both periods of time. When it says day, it means day, not night.
“God said let there be light, and there was light” (Gen. 1:3). We’re going to see that’s not the best translation. It should not be “and there was,” because that gives the indication He said it and there was. That’s not what it says in the Hebrew, He said it and ‘it came to be’ or ‘it did come to be.’ That is the way it should be translated and that’s the way your better translators will have it. The Concordant has it “and coming is it to be so.” It’s not in the indefinite, it’s in the past tense. Either ‘it came to be so’ or ‘it did come to be so.’ Not at that instance though, but it came to be so, a period of time.
Now, “and God saw the light that it was good and God divided the light from the darkness and God called the light day.[/b]” There it is. Now why don’t they believe it? They would’ve avoided all this stuff that’s been going on for hundreds of years, about were the days literal and was the earth created just 6000 years ago or 4.5 billion years ago, you see.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light day, the darkness He called day? No, because I read that wrong. The darkness He called ‘night.’ Now there are two different things and that’s easy to see. What is the day? The light is the day. The dark is not the day, the dark is the night.
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http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,8385.0.html
I’ll continue on with the meaning of ‘yom.’
Young earth creationist say, whenever yom is used with an ordinal or cardinal number, like first, second, one, two and so on, that it ALWAYS represents a 24 hour day… always. Not true.
Zec 14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
“…that day,” this is referring to a certain period of time I reckon, like the day of the Lord or in that day.
Zec 14:7 But it shall be one day (yom)...
Same words used in Genesis 1.
v.7 …which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
Zec 14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
“In summer and in winter,” you have whole seasons “in that day,” it says “one day.” So much for that unscriptural nonsense. So no, there is a cardinal - ordinal number, “one day” and it is going to be for seasons, that “one day.”
Had God meant evening and morning to have meant day and night, without even using the words day and night, He could have used the sunsets or something. You know from sunset to sunset was the second day and the third day and so on.
But He uses this evening and morning and this has more profound meanings. We already read in this paper that this heretic said, ‘no where else in the Bible do we find evening and morning, it’s only here and it must represent a 24 hour solar period of time. No where else in the Bible is this used.’ Actually there are three times, I’ll show you one.
Psa 90:1 A Prayer of Moses the man of God. Lord, Thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
v. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever Thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God.
v. 3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
v. 4 For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
It interesting that just these couple of verses brings in all this, the creation of the heavens and earth, a thousand years are as a day and so on, it’s all in there.
v.5 Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.
v. 6 In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.
What do we have here? This is what it is telling us in Genesis. Morning signifies order, light, birth, growth, progress. At night things get dark, gloomy, they become fizzy, you can’t see them anymore. It’s chaos to cosmos.
Here He is using the evening and morning exactly into that context. In the morning they are like grass, but in the evening they are cut down. The morning is positive, growth and light. The evening it’s cut down, darkness and death. They say, ‘no where else in the Bible these words are used.’ Well you just read it didn’t you. Did it mean sunset? That a person is born at sunrise and he dies at sunset? Well yea, it can be used that way, but it could represent his whole life, not 24 hours.
So here you see the symbolism of evening and morning portrayed perfectly. One has to do with progress and order and light and life. The other has to do with darkness and death. So we do have an example as to what these words mean, don’t we.
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I hope you'll read these articles in their entirety if you haven't already.
G.Driggs
jong:
Hi All,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I know Ray & others have also been searching & understanding the 3days/3nights issue, just like me ;)
In Jesus' own words.....
Mark 9:31
For He taught His disciples and said to them, “The Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of men, and they will kill Him. And after He is killed,He will rise the third day.”
Matthew 17:22-23
Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, and they will kill Him, and the third day He will be raised up.”
Matthew 20:18-19
“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again.”
Luke 9:22
“The Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.”
Mark 8:31
And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Even the chief priest and pharisess alluded to Jesus' words, when they told Pilate after the crucifixion “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’ (Matthew 27:63).
The word "and" is usually used to depict a continuing sequence of events. As such I believe the Lord actually meant to say He would be in Sheol (of the earth) for 3 literal days (days and nights), just as Jonah was in Sheol (of the seas).
(Jonah 2:2-3 “Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice. For You cast me into the deep, Into the heart of the seas...)
Kat:
Hi Jong,
--- Quote ---The word "and" is usually used to depict a continuing sequence of events. As such I believe the Lord actually meant to say He would be in Sheol (of the earth) for 3 literal days (days and nights), just as Jonah was in Sheol (of the seas).
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But Jesus was not in sheol (grave) for 3 'literal' days and nights. Ray has explained that there is no way to fit 3 days and 3 nights into the time frame from when Jesus actually was dead, it can not be literal, but it is a truth in that He was in the heart of the earth for that exact time.
We have a FAQ board and here is the link to the answer to this enigma.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11616.0.html
mercy, peace and love
Kat
jong:
Hi Kat & all,
Please consider some further viewpoints...
*******Removed due to no teaching rule**********
As a fellow seacher for truth, I would really love to hear Ray's insights into the above,
God bless all,
Jong
A reminder to the no teaching rule.....
--- Quote ---This forum is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com.
If you seriously disagree with Ray, please email him directly.
If you come here to teach us, please take your teaching elsewhere.
THIS FORUM IS NOT TO BE USED TO DEBATE RELIGIOUS TOPICS
--- End quote ---
Also a read of this would be helpful.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3614.0.html
--- Quote ---This forum is for those of “like mind” to fellowship. If you are not of like mind that is fine just don’t post your beliefs, or debate here. The moderators are not here to ferret out the truth of any doctrine or “feeling” that the members may have.
The moderators are not here to go through your teaching and decide if you are right or wrong (you may well be right), when we see these posts we will delete them, and you may be asked to stop posting these views, if you continue we will do what is necessary to protect the forum. Isn’t there enough that we can agree on?
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Craig
PS Jong I am not removing your post because I think you are wrong, your views may be right. It is just that this post is not the purpose of the forum and the rules are in place for a purpose.
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