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The most important question
Dave in Tenn:
Is it too much to ask that we have a forum focused on what is taught at Bible-truths.com? I say, absolutely not. I won't tackle everything in your post, Denise, but I will address this:
"We come together for one purpose, to discuss what is truth. You make it sound like Ray has the absolute Truth-and everyone is wrong. I have watched this forum change and it's scary."
Everybody who joins the forum is asked if they have read the rules. The rules state very clearly what this forum is about and HOW it is different from every other forum on the internet. That is the purpose 'we came together' for. We clearly admit that the moderators don't have the time or the wisdom to determine whether or not everyone else's thoughts are right or wrong. We just ask that you respect the purpose of THIS forum. We don't ask anybody--sincere seeker or religious hobbyist--to agree with everything taught at B-T. We just ask that if you have come here to teach us, that you please take it elsewhere.
There are hundreds of websites devoted to bible-discussions. There is only one devoted to what Ray teaches. We don't even require that you agree with Ray...only that you take your disgreement TO Ray and not on the forum. If someone quotes Ray, he or she is only saving you (and Ray) the effort of an email exchange.
I too have seen in my more than three years here many attempts to CHANGE the forum into a free-for-all 'discussion' group. I KNOW that I didn't join such a forum--because I know that I would never join such a forum--and I know that if it ever becomes one, I am out of here.
The no-teaching rule is there for a good reason. I'll admit that it's sometimes hard to discern and to enforce fairly. We're only human. But when it is, it behooves every member to understand why it's there.
You're going to have to let us be what we are. I'm not the teeny-tiniest bit ashamed of what we are.
Revilonivek:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on July 24, 2011, 07:33:57 PM ---Is it too much to ask that we have a forum focused on what is taught at Bible-truths.com? I say, absolutely not. I won't tackle everything in your post, Denise, but I will address this:
"We come together for one purpose, to discuss what is truth. You make it sound like Ray has the absolute Truth-and everyone is wrong. I have watched this forum change and it's scary."
Everybody who joins the forum is asked if they have read the rules. The rules state very clearly what this forum is about and HOW it is different from every other forum on the internet. That is the purpose 'we came together' for. We clearly admit that the moderators don't have the time or the wisdom to determine whether or not anyone else's thoughts are right or wrong. We just ask that you respect the purpose of THIS forum. We don't ask that anybody--sincere seeker or religious hobbyist--to agree with everything taught at B-T. We just ask that if you have come here to teach us, that you please take it elsewhere.
There are hundreds of websites devoted to bible-discussions. There is only one devoted to what Ray teaches. We don't even require that you agree with Ray...only that you take your disgreement TO Ray and not on the forum. If someone quotes Ray, he or she is only saving you (and Ray) the effort of an email exchange.
I too have seen in my more than three years here many attempts to CHANGE the forum into a free-for-all 'discussion' group. I KNOW that I didn't join such a forum--because I know that I would never join such a forum--and I know that if it ever becomes one, I am out of here.
The no-teaching rule is there for a good reason. I'll admit that it's sometimes hard to discern and to enforce fairly. We're only human. But when it is, it behooves every member to understand why it's there.
You're going to have to let us be what we are. I'm not the teeny-tiniest bit ashamed of what we are.
--- End quote ---
Okay, you are right. I forget sometimes that this forum's only purpose is to ask questions about Ray's papers and nothing else.
I apologize. I think sometimes after a while, you forget the boundaries of this forum when it comes to studying the scriptures.
Please accept my apology.
Denise
Revilonivek:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on July 24, 2011, 07:47:04 PM ---I can't speak for everyone else, but I received my magic decoder ring from the mother ship.
When I receive a message, I put on my funnel cap coated in tin foil, go outside and face in the direction of Mobile, Alabama, and chant: Ray Akbar! Ray Akbar!
It works for me. ;D ;D ;D
--- End quote ---
Lol, you know how to make people laugh. Thanks, I need it.
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 24, 2011, 06:58:05 PM --- You shoot down people unless it comes from Ray. You don't want to give every person a chance to explain anything unless it is something that Ray teaches. I simply shared what I know, like a group discussion, u treat me like I'm the black sheep of the group. You speak to me with an attitude. Makes me kind of feel belittled.
We come together for one purpose, to discuss what is truth. You make it sound like Ray has the absolute Truth-and everyone is wrong. I have watched this forum change and it's scary.
This is like other churches thAt shoots down anyone who teaches otherwise from what they believe. Not giving anyone any chance to explain and you make me feel like a stupid person who is always wrong. I share what is on my heart and you shoot me down and scream spiritually, "you are wrong" and won't acknowledge it. I remember I tried to share it with my pastor what I learned from Ray, they wouldn't even read it and say it is heresy. You are doing the same thing to me. I read the history of the early fathers and what they had to say. It's pure scary what they say about the bible, what thy did from 2nd century to 5th century ad, and what history it went through, even they admit to changing the doctrines in the bible and some of them admit to the deceit. Galus, Origen, Clement of alexandria, justin martyr, st. Jerome,Tertullian,Hermas, d many others. If you don't want to read about them, then look up the famous meeting in Nicea in 325 AD. It's scary.
--- End quote ---
If this forum is so 'scary', why oh why do you continue to come back? If this is a group who truly worships an ordinary man, why would you want to be a part of it? I don't believe you truly mean any of this because actions speak louder than words, and yet, your actions show that you want to participate with this 'scary' forum.
Members, riddle me this: how come when someone comes in, to 'discuss' the truth, that if we don't agree with them, that means we're only following Ray? How many times have these so called 'truth bearers' ever said 'Oh, I was wrong' after multiple members show them their errors using the Scriptures?
Denise, I don't speak to you with an attitude, you simply don't like being refuted.
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 24, 2011, 06:58:05 PM ---The bible use to be a lot longer than it was now. You can read it up, think for yourself and reprove every story always. It does help to know the Jewish history and customs. They always do the Royal genealogies thru the males and never thru the females. I am simply pointing out that jesus got his royal kingship from Joseph.
--- End quote ---
What??? His 'royal kingship' came FROM GOD! I have looked it up, it's right there in Psalms AND Hebrews as I've shown you already. It has nothing to do with his genealogy.
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 24, 2011, 06:58:05 PM ---Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
1 John 5
1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
And that was in the bible.
--- End quote ---
Denise, this is a load of crap. Not one scripture states Joseph 'begat' Jesus but we DO have a scripture that says Jesus was 'begotten' by God.
When the angel told Mary she would be with child, Mary's response was "how can this be, since I do not know a man?" [Luke 1:34]. Matthew 1:25 also testifies to the fact that Mary and Joseph did not 'know' each other until after Jesus's birth. But you said above that Mary and Joseph had sexual relations that produced Jesus. It was through the Holy Spirit that Jesus was born, not some man.
Also, how in the world would Philip know that Jesus was the Son of God? He just met him! Of course to everyone before they knew him he was 'the son of Joseph'. Joseph is said to 'take Mary as his wife' [Matt 1:24-25] which means to be a 'Father' to any children she may have. But you don't read anywhere that Joseph 'begat' Jesus.
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 24, 2011, 06:58:05 PM ---Jesus is a begotten son of God spiritually. You know what I mean. Joseph is Jesus father biologically but he has the mind of the Father. As will many sons and daughter gain once the become begotten. the Holy spirit defines you. We can't just believe everything we read. We have to reprove Always like the scriptures say.
--- End quote ---
It sounds like you don't believe anything that doesn't fit your unscriptural beliefs. How many scriptures must you be shown? 20? 50? 100?
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 24, 2011, 06:58:05 PM ---I believe everyone has the truth right and we just just abandon the present truth as we attain a higher spiritual truth. No one is wrong.
--- End quote ---
This is exactly why YOU DON'T LEARN! If one thinks they are always right, why would they learn from anyone else?
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 24, 2011, 06:58:05 PM ---It is written on our hearts and you know this to be true. Even if years ago, you wouldn't accept what Ray teaches until you had the ability to receive it. I realize I am not a teacher so I will leave it alone. I am sure you guys are only receptive to what Ray has to teach and what he finds. he probably teaches it better than me anyway.
--- End quote ---
His teaching is better because it's based on the scriptures, nothing more. The ONLY thing that's drawn most of these members to this ministry are the sound, scriptural teachings brought forth. If this ministry was based simply on one man's opinion, it would have died off a long time ago
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 24, 2011, 06:58:05 PM ---He is gifted. As he receives it, he will share with you guys and I'm sure you guys will be more open to it when he does. and it will be like a bomb every time, like he exposes the deceit of hell, thithing and so on. I guess I am a heretic in your eyes until it's exposed to be the Truth. Like some people think Ray is a heretic until they learn what he is saying is the truth. no one is wrong. Just how they see The truth.
--- End quote ---
Denise, you're simply blowing smoke...you are a heretic because you pronounce heretical doctrines as if they are true! You avoided every scripture shown to you because they contradict your beliefs. Ray doesn't do that...when you have the scriptures to back you up, you're never painted into a corner. But you seem to be and can't get your way out of it, that's why I'm on you now.
If you don't get anything out of this, at least any member who may be confused by your 'truth' will know the difference. If you don't know by now, I DO NOT LIKE WOLVES among these sheep!
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on July 24, 2011, 06:58:05 PM ---Please forgive me for offending you, that is not my intentions, just hungry to share but i will shut up. Please forgive me.
--- End quote ---
If you want to be forgiven, show a forgiven attitude. Read the papers...look through the conference transcripts and bible studies...stop being tossed to and fro by every doctrine. Just because something causes you to have 'itchy ears' doesn't make it true.
This isn't the first time your 'truths' have been refuted, that should tell you something.
Marques
Dennis Vogel:
Hi Denise,
It takes time to get rid of things you learned in the church. You don't even realize these things come out. I'm sure there are things you currently know as fact that will some day seem foolish to you.
It's evident you have a lot of hard earned knowledge gained over many years of study. It's just IMO some of it is build on the wrong foundation which leads to these conflicts.
I'm happy that Ray's teaching's have brought you to this forum. I just wish you would not make so many dogmatic statements that are contrary to what most here believe.
I wish you would simply take one subject at a time and say something like "This is what I believe..." and state you case and see what others have to say. And if no one agrees with you then move on. Do not beat a dead horse.
What we do not tolerate here is blatant teaching. If everyone taught what they 'think' then this forum would be confusing for everyone and no one would learn much of anything.
If you have something to share then please try and use the approach I suggested. Just one small item at a time please.
Thanks,
Dennis
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